Thinkpads Forum

Just got my t60p. I like how rigid the lcd and the palmrest are. I have my old t40 next to it. And it's apparent that T40's LCD casing is less rigid, and T40's palmrest gives in slightly when you press it hard over the pc card area. T60p feels very rigid, and appears to have a thicker LCD casing. I am very happy with T60's build quality.

Now, one intriguing thing is a plastic sheet between the LCD and the body. It appears to be some kinda of connecting strip. But it goes into the body where the battery goes in. Will the battery ever heat up so as to damage the plastic strip?

Normlly the temperature of a running battery in Thinkpad is far lower than the degree which can cause physical damage to the plastic strip.

Dell is an exception.

On the T60 anyway, the bottom casing is made out of something that has a longer name than I can remember. It's supposed to be way better than whatever was on the T40.

I have both T60p and T40, I am happy with T60's overall build quality too. The 2 hinger on T60 are both big compare 1 big 1 small in T40, looks more strong.

wswartzendruber wrote:On the T60 anyway, the bottom casing is made out of something that has a longer name than I can remember. It's supposed to be way better than whatever was on the T40.

Polytetrafluoroethylene
(actually, that's what mouse feet are made of)

Might be magnesium; lenovo seems to like magnesium.

I guess they use the same material on X60 too. I feel my X60S is more sturdy than my wife's X31.

bplaut wrote:Polytetrafluoroethylene
(actually, that's what mouse feet are made of)

Teflon isn't that hard to remember

Rwang wrote:Just got my t60p. I like how rigid the lcd and the palmrest are. I have my old t40 next to it. And it's apparent that T40's LCD casing is less rigid, and T40's palmrest gives in slightly when you press it hard over the pc card area.

Perhaps that's just because the T40 is older. I bet your T60p will be less rigid than it is now three years down the road.

pianowizard wrote:

Rwang wrote:Just got my t60p. I like how rigid the lcd and the palmrest are. I have my old t40 next to it. And it's apparent that T40's LCD casing is less rigid, and T40's palmrest gives in slightly when you press it hard over the pc card area.

Perhaps that's just because the T40 is older. I bet your T60p will be less rigid than it is now three years down the road.

My T22's build quality never went down.

benplaut wrote:

wswartzendruber wrote:On the T60 anyway, the bottom casing is made out of something that has a longer name than I can remember. It's supposed to be way better than whatever was on the T40.

Polytetrafluoroethylene
(actually, that's what mouse feet are made of)

Might be magnesium; lenovo seems to like magnesium.

Polytetrafluoroethylene

impressive name

bonabest wrote:

benplaut wrote: Polytetrafluoroethylene
(actually, that's what mouse feet are made of)

Might be magnesium; lenovo seems to like magnesium.

Polytetrafluoroethylene

impressive name

PTFE is a bit easier to get your mouth around

I'm happy with T60 built quality but my earlier T42 was better.

I'm very happy with my first laptop, sorry for not providing feed back from older machines since I never had a laptop before!
I still wonder what brand of keyboard I have that a lot of people talk a lot about! here is my part number from the part list shiped on my order: 39T7148. I couldn't find out where i can see what brand is. my specs below.

I seen on lenovo page of the brands of keyboards but no one match the part number

ALPS: 39T7118 Chicony: 39T7178 NMB: 39T0958

I've owned both a T40 and a T43 (as well as my current X60s). I think the T40 had a far inferior build quality, even to the T43. It had a lot more body flex, and the hinges seemed looser. Then again, it could just be due to its age. Personally, I think the X60/s trumps every other (fairly modern) thinkpad I've used (disclaimer: I have yet to lay my paws on a T60/p).

benplaut wrote:

bonabest wrote:
impressive name

PTFE is a bit easier to get your mouth around

What's the big deal with the long name? If calling a common substance by it's technical name is impressive, then I'm going to go enjoy a glass of ice cold dihydrogen monoxide

acasto wrote:<snip>...then I'm going to go enjoy a glass of ice cold dihydrogen monoxide

Be careful. Make sure your read all of the warnings at this site:

http://www.dhmo.org/

Failure to understand the dangers of this most common substances can be fatal. (No joke: a woman has died recently from excessive comsumption of this material as a participant in a radio station contest; ref. this CNN article)

Sorry to get off topic... but sorta getting back on...

I think the best built systems are the 600X. Rock solid. No chassis flex. Nice feeling keyboard. A little of the heavy side, but, hey, you can't have it all, right?

rkawakami wrote:I think the best built systems are the 600X. Rock solid. No chassis flex. Nice feeling keyboard. A little of the heavy side, but, hey, you can't have it all, right?

Why does older always seem better built? Not as fast or as many features perhaps, but the quality of constuction was undeniable. [speaking as one who laments the loss of the past ] Consider the old Ma Bell telephones that were rented out (made by Western Electric). Those things were built like tanks and lasted for decades!

Correction to earlier posts speculating as to the case materials.

Here are the actual materials used in the cases of the T60 and X60 series ThinkPads.

T60 14" uses a composite magnesium top cover

T60 15" uses a CFRP top cover

Both T models (14" & 15") use CFRP bottom cases.

CFRP is: Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic.


X60 series are all magnesium alloy top and bottom.

archer6 wrote:T60 14" uses a composite magnesium top cover

T60 15" uses a CFRP top cover

So which one is stronger? My guess is CFRP is tougher, to prevent the bigger lid from flexing too much.

pianowizard wrote:

archer6 wrote:T60 14" uses a composite magnesium top cover

T60 15" uses a CFRP top cover

So which one is stronger? My guess is CFRP is tougher, to prevent the bigger lid from flexing too much.

You are correct.

CFRP is used in Formula One Race Cars, Indy Cars, Private Corp. Jets, Spacecraft, Offshore Race Boats, and is not to be confused with basic Carbon Fiber. The clue is in the spelling "Fibre" as opposed to "Fiber". They are similar yet distinctively different materials.

CFRP properties as compared to composite magnesium are as follows:

CFRP is light, strong and dissipates heat very well. It offers great shear strength as well as being a bit maleable so as not to be too rigid. The color is impregnated into the material for a very long lasting finish. The one exception to this is the "rubberized paint" that Lenovo sprays the top covers with. That's why when rubbed of a corner for example the same black color is beneath revealing the CFRP.

Composite Magnesium is more likely to "dent" or "fracture", as it's nature is to be overly rigid. In the case of an X60 series, it's preferred for cost reasons, being less costly than CFRP.

It takes a significant impact to produce damage to composite magnesium. Compared to CFRP which requires an extreme impact to damage the material. Impacts that laptops are highly unlikely of encountering.

Not that I really know the particular properties of either material, however I will say the following: rigidity is not the same as toughness. While CFRP may be tougher and not sustain damage as easily as composite magnesium, composite magnesium may better protect what's underneath by it's rigidity (up to a point).

GomJabbar wrote: I will say the following: rigidity is not the same as toughness. While CFRP may be tougher and not sustain damage as easily as composite magnesium, composite magnesium may better protect what's underneath by it's rigidity (up to a point).

You are correct in terms of rigidity vs toughness.

In this particular discussion between the two materials and the two models of ThinkPads, there is almost no difference in the level of protection as both materials are very well suited to their respective applications.

Because these are both laptops and both are relatively small, I believe the level of protection is nearly 99% identical in both computers.

One advantage and I suspect one of the reasons CFRP was used in the T series is it's light weight, and superb thermal management characteristics.

In addition as some people have complained about temps of the palm rest on the X60 series, if that model was made of CFRP the issue would be much less noticeable, if at all.

archer6 wrote:In addition as some people have complained about temps of the palm rest on the X60 series, if that model was made of CFRP the issue would be much less noticeable, if at all.

Since CFRP dissipates heat better, at least under some conditions it might make the palm rests even warmer!

archer wrote:CFRP is light, strong and dissipates heat very well.

by this, I assume the heat is spread out through the material rather than staying around one location, possibly like a giant heatsink.

archer6 wrote:CFRP is used in Formula One Race Cars, Indy Cars, Private Corp. Jets, Spacecraft, Offshore Race Boats, and is not to be confused with basic Carbon Fiber. The clue is in the spelling "Fibre" as opposed to "Fiber". They are similar yet distinctively different materials.

"Carbon Fiber" vs "Carbon Fibre" is like "Aluminum" vs "Aluminium" or "Theater" vs "Theatre" -- it's different spelling in different countries. (Up here in the frozen north we prefer the latter one but accept both.)

F1 cars (as well as other race cars, aerospace etc) typically use pur carbon fibre rather than CFRP. Pure carbon fibre is painstakingly laid out, laminated and cured in an autoclave. The is a labour-intensive and expensive process. A pure carbon fibre case for a ThinkPad would likely double or triple the cost the system.

archer6 wrote: CFRP properties as compared to composite magnesium are as follows:

CFRP is light, strong and dissipates heat very well. It offers great shear strength as well as being a bit maleable so as not to be too rigid. The color is impregnated into the material for a very long lasting finish. The one exception to this is the "rubberized paint" that Lenovo sprays the top covers with. That's why when rubbed of a corner for example the same black color is beneath revealing the CFRP.

Yep, I do agree on all these qualities of CFRP.

archer6 wrote: Composite Magnesium is more likely to "dent" or "fracture", as it's nature is to be overly rigid. In the case of an X60 series, it's preferred for cost reasons, being less costly than CFRP.

Magnesium isn't really a composite -- it's a magnesium alloy. And, yes, as you say, it's not malleable, so it won't absorb an impact the way CFRP will.

As somebody who is currently using carbon fiber composites in an structural application, I cannot help but notice a few misconceptions about carbon fiber in the previous posts.

First off, carbon fiber is carbon fibre. There is no difference between the two spelling methods. Carbon fiber as used in most structural applications is a cloth that is woven in a similar manner as a woven basket would be.

A carbon fiber reinforced plastic (CFRP) is a COMPOSITE material is a material that is made up of the carbon fiber cloth of some type (uni-axial, bi-axial, etc) which then is layered into a mold, and combined with some kind of resin. This resin then cures, and holds the individual layers of fiber together. A typical resin is epoxy, this is where the plastic part comes into carbon fiber reinforced plastic. Other resins used to form CFRP parts include nylon, polyester and vinylesters. A CFRP part will/can look like something made of plain plastic, being that it actually is made of plastic. Note that some types of weaves come pre-impregnated with a resin and do not the extra step of adding resing to the matrix of fibers after lay-out.

CFRP does NOT have good heat dissipation - it is a plastic and does not have high thermal conductivity or toughness. CFRP are typicall not considered when "advanced" thermal properties are desired.

However, a special type of carbon fiber composite does exist which provides excellent heat resistance. These types of compostes are called "carbon-carbon" composits. They take the carbon fibers, and use a carbon based resin, which results in a part that withstands very high temperatures very well. These parts will be used in applications such as the leading edges of a hypersonic plane, where the friction from the air will cause great temperature in that location.

CFRP is typically quite inelastic, but this will depend on the resin type you are using, and the amount of CF layers you use. More layers create a stiffer structure. Shear strength of CFRP will depend on shear direction and CF layout. A CFRP will be less strong in the plane of the epoxy than it will be in the plane of the CF layers.

Using pure carbon fiber by itself is not done in structural applications. It needs to be part of a composite in order for it to have any kind of shape and rigidity. F1 cars just use different weaves and resins to achieve their desired properties.

And I would bet that the lids which utilise magnesium are a type of composite with magnesium and plastic. Also that the bottom casing is not made of PTFE - usually used as a low-coefficient of friction covering layer, or for its inertness, neither of which are important in the structural design of a laptop.