Thinkpads Forum

I bought a T60 from the marketplace for my friend (thanks to beavo451 for his awesome price), and I had a couple of days when I was setting up the laptop to compare it with my 15" T60. This post is simply a summary of my observations comparing these identically set-up laptops on windows XP although some points have been discussed before here.

1. Build and Size:
The 14" T60 is one sturdy beast - it is the most solid thinkpad I have seen. I'll go ahead and say that it seems better than my 15" (which is amazing in itself). Weight seems more evenly distributed and the laptop is a fantastic size to work with on your lap. I find the 15" a bit big to use on my lap (I use a X31 for that ), but the 14" is perfect. The front "edge" of the 14" (where the LCD latches to the base) and the front corners are designed slightly different (with a more squarish finish) than the 15". There was NO flex whatsover on the 14" (even on the flap cover area in the palmrest and above the ultrabay) while there is a small flex (nothing alarming, very very minor and I pickily do notice them) in these areas on my 15". Keyboards on the machines were identical, though a tad better on the 14" which appeared to be more solid with a better travel than my 15". Both were NMB ones I guess (I could see the blue riser under the keycaps, which I remember were told as NMB on the forum somtime back).

2. LCD quality
This is a no brainer. 15" flexview beats 14" (and any other laptop display for that matter) hands down, legs down. Both laptops have a X1400 GPU @ 1400*1050. Colors look a bit dull and the viewing angles are poor on the 14". There is quite a bit of ghosting and the contrast is not so great either. I happen to have the video of the movie "Before Sunrise" (it has some fantastic sunlight lit european streets) on two portable drives and I ran it on both laptops simultaneously (without sound though ) and the difference is striking - I'll take some pictures with both and post them sometime soon). People in doubt, please get a 15" if you dont mind the size.

3. Battery life
With both laptops having 6-cell batteries, display down to minimum and wifi on (and set to max battery in access connections on both) and opera 9.1 running 5 tabs (identical on both machines), I get 3:05 on the 15" and about 3:30 hours on the 14"(both batteries are practically new, with the 15" having just 2 cycles on it and the 14" ~30 cycles). I did not drain the batteries fully though - stopped the "experiment" at around 60% on both latops.

4. Heat and Noise
There have been many posts in this forum saying that T60 is noisy and the fan is on for quite a while etc. Before I start, I wouldlike to say that I am quite sensitive to system noise and my room is essentially noiseless. To compare noise levels between the 14" and the 15" models, I set both of them to max. performance and ran identical matlab code on both. The program is a complex piece of hand-optimized code that is CPU and memory intensive and runs for about 30 minutes on full steam (with enough graphical output and quite a lot of file i/o - good enough for real world testing purpsoses). The spec of machines were slightly different (15" with 2 GHz Core duo + 2 GB RAM + a 7200 RPM HDD and 14" with 1.83 GHz Core duo + 1.5 GB of RAM + 5400 RPM HDD).

Not surprisingly, the 15" was more noisy than the 14" maninly due to the difference in the HDD. Fan noise was minimal to non-existent on both laptops. The 7200 rpm Hitachi is noisy even at quiet setting. Because of the nature of the code, fans were on in both machines for atleast ~20 mins and temperatures on the 15" was a bit higher (57C with fan at ~4500-4700 rpm, idles at 39-42 C with fan off or at ~3000 rpm for a short duration with adaptive setting) compared to the 14" (55C at ~4300-4600 rpm, idles at 39-42C with fan off or at ~3000 rpm for a short duration with adaptive setting). The 15" finished the simulation faster than the 14". I used TP control to monitor the fan speeds and the temperatures and did not use any manual settings.

Conclusion:
If they offer flexview on 14" (which is not going to happen ), I will trade my T60!

NB: I'll be having the 14" till monday - if anyone has questions I'd be happy to answer.

Nice rundown, I went with the same model as your 15", but with only the 14" screen (2613HKU). I've been extremely happy with the computer as a whole, but it did take some tweaking to get everything how I want it. I used to have a 15.4" zt3000 and this thing is tiny in comparison.

As far as the screen, I've never seen a Flexview, but I have seen quite a few others. Although the non-Flexview screen is not the best out there, it's still better than your average laptop screen. I'm not disappointed with my choice at all. In any case, if it's a size issue (as in my case) then there is only one choice (the price difference didn't hurt either).

I'm not trying to contradict the OP, but it is important for the average or mobile user to realize that the 14" screen is still very good and definitely usable. When I first read about the Flexview on the forum I got the impression that the 14" was abominable and not worth anyone's time. After using it for a few weeks, I can say that I like the screen and although it's not perfect, nothing really is anyway.

gator wrote:I bought a T60 from the marketplace for my friend (thanks to beavo451 for his awesome price)

I remember that T60! It was a very good deal indeed! Your friend is so lucky!

pianowizard wrote: I remember that T60! It was a very good deal indeed! Your friend is so lucky!

Yes! She is very happy with the laptop - she says it is her best perchase ever!

kf_man wrote: m not trying to contradict the OP, but it is important for the average or mobile user to realize that the 14" screen is still very good and definitely usable. When I first read about the Flexview on the forum I got the impression that the 14" was abominable and not worth anyone's time. After using it for a few weeks, I can say that I like the screen and although it's not perfect, nothing really is anyway

I agree completely with what you say - the 14" SXGA+ is a fantastic, portable machine (more so than the 15") and the screen is far better than regular laptops. But after using the flexview, my standards have gone up If you haven't seen a flexview, I suggest you see on3 to understand why I rave about it

Question about the keyboard, which T60 comes with the windows key? Mine 15'' model does not has one.

kf_man wrote:I'm not trying to contradict the OP, but it is important for the average or mobile user to realize that the 14" screen is still very good and definitely usable. When I first read about the Flexview on the forum I got the impression that the 14" was abominable and not worth anyone's time.

Perhaps we were referring to 14" XGA screens, which most of us here do think are destestable.

Pianowizard is right - most of those posts were about XGA. IMHO, XGA is good on the 12" x sereis (though there are people who want a SXGA+ on the X60!) - it is very less for a 14".

pianowizard wrote:

kf_man wrote:I'm not trying to contradict the OP, but it is important for the average or mobile user to realize that the 14" screen is still very good and definitely usable. When I first read about the Flexview on the forum I got the impression that the 14" was abominable and not worth anyone's time.

Perhaps we were referring to 14" XGA screens, which most of us here do think are destestable.

There is something even worse which is 14" SXGA+ screen run at XGA resolution. That is exactly what my parents do with their T43, which I instructed them to buy in SXGA+ given the screen quality. I've tried several times to get them to run it in native resolution with programs adjusted to use larger fonts consistent with their eyesight. Instead, they find it easier to just dumb down the resolution.

Boy does that look like crap.

Ken Fox wrote: There is something even worse which is 14" SXGA+ screen run at XGA resolution.

Most LCDs look bad at any-other non-native resolutions.

On a side note, I have a strange thing happening with my X31 though - it i press Fn+spacebar, the screen resolution doesn't change - instead the visible area becomes smaller (with a big black border in all 4 sides) and my screen remains at 1024*768 in the visible area. Anyone knows why? (Maybe I should post this in the X31 section ...)

gator wrote: I'll take some pictures with both and post them sometime soon.

Please do as I'm making final decision on my purchase soon. Pictures of size and the screen comparison between the two would be great.

Thanks

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=8288
There are some fantastic pics in this thread, please look. I'll get pics of screen over the weekend.

ryengineer wrote:Question about the keyboard, which T60 comes with the windows key? Mine 15'' model does not has one.

Which T60 does not? Could you please post your model number, and perhaps a pic? I hate the Windows key...

BR,

Robert

gator wrote:

Ken Fox wrote: There is something even worse which is 14" SXGA+ screen run at XGA resolution.

Most LCDs look bad at any-other non-native resolutions.

On a side note, I have a strange thing happening with my X31 though - it i press Fn+spacebar, the screen resolution doesn't change - instead the visible area becomes smaller (with a big black border in all 4 sides) and my screen remains at 1024*768 in the visible area. Anyone knows why? (Maybe I should post this in the X31 section ...)

It's a setting in "thinpad configuration" that does that, can't remember the esakt name, but I'll PM you later when I get near my thinkpad.

gator wrote: Most LCDs look bad at any-other non-native resolutions.

On a side note, I have a strange thing happening with my X31 though - it i press Fn+spacebar, the screen resolution doesn't change - instead the visible area becomes smaller (with a big black border in all 4 sides) and my screen remains at 1024*768 in the visible area. Anyone knows why? (Maybe I should post this in the X31 section ...)

From the Thinkpad Configuration utility select LCD and then enable Screen Expansion.

Thanks, steveg47. It worked.

When I purchased my T60 I had a choice between getting the 2623D6U, which came with a 14" SXGA+ screen (1400 x 1050) or a 15" non-flexview XGA (1024 x 768), both running the ATi X1300 card. I opted for the 14" because my primary focus was on portability (I have a perfectly good desktop computer for the big picture), and although I haven't seen the 15 inch model I think I made the right choice. I was concerned that everything would be too small running at 1400 x 1050 but so far, it hasn't bothered me and I haven't been tempted to change it to 1024 x 768, which would probably look yucky. However, I do notice that the viewing angle is not-so-good, one has to be looking straight-on - and playing a large WMV file of a TV show in Windows Media Player - full screen - the playback was noticeably choppy, but it was still watchable.

I hear good things about the flexview but that would have cost substantially more and I couldn't justify the expense for a machine that's primarily used for e-mail and apps on the go, not video playback.

Hello,

I'm on the way to change my T43p for a T61 or a X61 tablet ... I'm not decided at the moment ! My geak side would go for the Tablet

I'm interrested in those pictures, but it seems that they are not available anymore !

someone has a copy ? or another server ?

Greg

ryengineer wrote:Question about the keyboard, which T60 comes with the windows key? Mine 15'' model does not has one.

My 15.4" WS T60 8743CTO has the Windows key.

AFAIK it's one of the last T60 models built and all thanks to Lenovo's T60 blowout awhile back.

ryengineer wrote:Question about the keyboard, which T60 comes with the windows key? Mine 15'' model does not has one.

I think all t60 keyboards come with windows key now.

Another difference between 14 model and 15 model is the top cover. It's magnesium alloy for 14 and carbon fiber reinforced plastic for 15.

I have a 15" T60 with model No. 6371-74U, and I like it a lot. At first I was concerned about the width, but I've adjusted. Usually it looks great, but I've noticed a problem lately: movies look washed out, even like black and white movies. the color seems to be mostly gone. That's when I'm running ubuntu 7.10. I have XP on a dualboot but I haven't tried a movie, yet, because it's such a pain to run windows at all.

I'm thinking I need a different video driver, but I'm not sure what it is or where to find it. I don't even know what video card I have in this thinkpad.

Movies look just fine when I run them on my old T40, also using ubuntu 7.10.

Any ideas?

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