Thinkpads Forum

First Post so a little bit about who I am, what I do and what I need my laptop to do.

I've never been a fan of mobile computing, mostly cause I hate using those touch pads and small keyboards with inconsistent layouts, and above all paying a premium price for last years performance.

Recently its become critical that I take my work with me where ever I go. To this end, I was forced to consider a laptop. I narrowed down my choice to the Thinkpad because of its reputation for having a durable product, full sized keyboard and Trackpoint.

The work I do is mostly graphic design / photo editing / and a little bit of website design (using Adobe Creative Suite 2) and will use the laptop primarly for that purpose along with general computing (email, web surfing, word processing etc.)

This laptop needs to be responsive under heavy loads (Photoshop and Illustrator running at the same time can be a beast) and relatively stable (or at least as stable as XP can be).

I am also considering installing FreeBSD (and perhaps OS X) just to experiment.

Before I make the investment I wanted to know if there was any word on a new thinkpad T coming out soon (within the next month or so)? Or anything I should consider getting (2nd hard drive? flexview? widescreen? Discreet video card?) that would make my work flow smoother and more productive.

Thank You.

Grand_Agent wrote:Recently its become critical that I take my work with me where ever I go.....Before I make the investment I wanted to know if there was any word on a new thinkpad T coming out soon (within the next month or so)?

My understanding is that there won't be a new T series model coming out that soon.

Since you'll be taking your laptop wherever you go, and since you have never owned a laptop before, I recommend you to find out whether you'd mind constantly lugging around 6 pounds of extra weight (i.e the weight of a 14.1" T series plus AC adapter) with you. You can do that by carrying a book weighing that much in your bag for several days. If you find that too heavy, you may want to consider getting an X60s instead, provided that the 1024x768 display gives you enough working area. The keyboard of an X60s is just slightly smaller, still big enough for comfortable typing.

Grand_Agent wrote:First Post so a little bit about who I am, what I do and what I need my laptop to do.

I've never been a fan of mobile computing, mostly cause I hate using those touch pads and small keyboards with inconsistent layouts, and above all paying a premium price for last years performance.

Recently its become critical that I take my work with me where ever I go. To this end, I was forced to consider a laptop. I narrowed down my choice to the Thinkpad because of its reputation for having a durable product, full sized keyboard and Trackpoint.

The work I do is mostly graphic design / photo editing / and a little bit of website design (using Adobe Creative Suite 2) and will use the laptop primarly for that purpose along with general computing (email, web surfing, word processing etc.)

This laptop needs to be responsive under heavy loads (Photoshop and Illustrator running at the same time can be a beast) and relatively stable (or at least as stable as XP can be).

I am also considering installing FreeBSD (and perhaps OS X) just to experiment.

Before I make the investment I wanted to know if there was any word on a new thinkpad T coming out soon (within the next month or so)? Or anything I should consider getting (2nd hard drive? flexview? widescreen? Discreet video card?) that would make my work flow smoother and more productive.

Thank You.

Greetings and Welcome to the Forum!

I'm 6'3" with big hands, and I find the Thinkpad keyboards very comfortable. In fact my requirements are such that I have used ThinkPad Laptops for the last decade, as my main computer. I have upgraded to a new one about every 10 months or so, (see my signature line at the bottom of this post) as I need all the resources, storage, and speed available.

There are some subtle yet very important considerations that are easily overlooked when choosing the brand and model of laptop.

The reason that the keyboard on a ThinkPad is legendary, is not only does it offer full size keys, but they have more downward travel than most if not all other laptops. This in my experience, makes a significant difference in comfort and ease of use, as well as speed. I use my ThinkPad for 8 to 10 hours per day and find that I actually prefer the keyboard to that of a desktop.

Another very significant advantage of the new ThinkPads is that they offer a touch pad as well as a track point for input. I have used ThinkPads which had only the track point for years and find it to still be my pointing device of choice. Easily adapted to, if offers very precise action without time wasting effort. Conversely the touch pad is also a very accurate model as compared to it's competitors, so I feel certain that you will like either of these choices and easily adapt.

I do a lot of 3D design work, with several very resource intensive applications. And like you, I use Photoshop and Illustrator running at the same time, and find that I can work at a very fast pace, no problem. I also maintain a very large database and use all of the MS Office products, as I do everything on my ThinkPad.

While I have the smaller X60s, and it's a great model, I would not suggest it to you for two major reasons. It's just 1024x768 on a 12" display, and the keyboard is 95% that of a full size ThinkPad keyboard. I use mine primarily when I am traveling internationally and not doing the type of work that I regularly do on my T60p. In my opinion, those two key factors may disappoint you and render the computer less than perfect for your needs. Another consideration that would limit the X60 series for you is speed. As they are not as fast as a T60 series.

I'm sure that the ThinkPads that are currently available will meet & exceed your needs quite easily. The performance and speed I enjoy from mine are so close to real world desktop performance that it's a non issue. After reading and thinking about your needs based on the work you do, I would highly suggest a T60 series model. I carry one everyday and it's just not an issue.

Hope this helps and please feel free to ask further questions.

Cheers.........

Well, I use X60 exclusively and I love it. I don't have large, but medium size hands and the keyboard works just fine for me. I *do* use a larger 24" Dell LCD 1920x1200 at home and at work, but I often do work at night in coffee houses and travel without the external LCDs. As for speed, I'm currently using the 2 GHz Core 2 Duo and anything faster you'll pay a great deal more money for. I find it fast enough for my needs for now and I do programming with it. The battery life with the 8-cell is fantastic largely because of the built-in Intel graphics processor.
This might be the one reason to wait a few months is that the newer refresh using the Santa Rosa chipset will have a faster built-in graphics processor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#S ... a_platform
Called the X3000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_X3000

dfumento wrote:Well, I use X60 exclusively and I love it.

Precisely!

This is the exact reason that I'm such a loyal ThinkPad supporter. It is the only brand which offers such a wide array of choices to suit every conceivable need.

I'm of the mind that one is not better than the other. Just different, and depending on the intended usage, then one may be more suitable than another.

I think they are all great, hence the reason I own both T & X series which I use depending on my needs. I like to have choices and there is no better laptop for providing those than the ThinkPad brand.

Cheers...

archer6 wrote:I'm of the mind that one is not better than the other. Just different, and depending on the intended usage, then one may be more suitable than another.

Same here, and that's why I have both a T43 and an X60s. The OP's intended usage will be taking the laptop with him/her all the time, and that's why I thought the X60s might be more suitable.

pianowizard wrote:Same here, and that's why I have both a T43 and an X60s. The OP's intended usage will be taking the laptop with him/her all the time, and that's why I thought the X60s might be more suitable.

So true, as the X60s is very light and small.

In fact another reason I bought mine is that I simply put it in my Waterfield sleeve and then into my backpack for the weekends.

Pop into Starbucks, relax and still be connected via WiFi.

I'm such a computer nerd.........

The way I see it is as follows. Models to consider are the T60 and X60 series. Both will be sturdy and give great performance, both have the trackpoint.

While I have never touched any of the above, I do own a 15" T42, and my girlfriend has a 12" X32, so I have experience with both extremes, and can point out some of the things I find most important.

First question I'd like to ask the OP is what degree of mobility is required from the laptop. Does "take work with me wherever I go" mean that you need to have your computer available to you wherever you are, but you still used it mostly on the desk and don't carry it around a lot, or does it mean that you really need to carry it everywhere (from office to office, from home to coffee shop, etc)?

If it's the first, than the T60 Wide 15.4" (the heaviest of the pack) can be convenient. However, if it's the second, then you might appreciate the small size and low weight X60 series. However, the difference between X60 and X60s seems to me quite negligible to me.

Now, screen resolution. If it's important to you to have lots of real-estate, then there are SXGA+ (1400x1050), WSXGA+ (1680x1050, on T60 15.4" WS only) and UXGA (1600x1200, on T60p 15" only). SXGA+ seems a good compromise, and you can get it also at 14" (and in fact at 12", if you get the X60 Tablet, but that might be too small to be comfortable).

I agree with archer6 regarding the potential downsides of the ultra-mobile X60 laptop, i.e., the screen and the keyboard. While the keyboard is still very good, it's not totally full-size, and it also seems that some of the keys are a bit shifted relative to their standard positions, causing me to often mistype something when I use my girlfriend's X32. I don't know whether it's the same on the X60, but if it is, it might be somewhat inconvenient if you type a lot.

Also, the X60 does not have a built-in optical drive. Is this important to you? If you use an optical drive, but don't need it with you all the time (or don't mind carrying extra), you can always get an external, or the X60 Ultrabase.

dr_st wrote:However, the difference between X60 and X60s seems to me quite negligible to me.

The weight difference between them seems negligible if one just lifts them and feels them for several seconds, but it becomes quite noticeable if one has to carry them several hours a day, several days a week.

pianowizard wrote:

dr_st wrote:However, the difference between X60 and X60s seems to me quite negligible to me.

The weight difference between them seems negligible if one just lifts them and feels them for several seconds, but it becomes quite noticeable if one has to carry them several hours a day, several days a week.

Apples to apples (with a standard display and the enhanced 4-cell battery) it really is small: 3.00 lbs vs 3.15 lbs. 2.4 oz (68 grams) really isn't very much!

But what the X60s does do is give you an opportunity to reduce the weight further, by using the slimline 4-cell battery (reduced battery life) and ultralight display (display quality compromise) to get the weight down to 2.69 lbs -- at this point I agree that the difference (0.46 lbs/210g) is appreciable.

But if you want the standard display and either the enhanced 4-cell battery or the 8-cell battery, there is not much to be gained with the extra cost of the X60s.

tomh009 wrote:But what the X60s does do is give you an opportunity to reduce the weight further, by using the slimline 4-cell battery (reduced battery life) and ultralight display (display quality compromise) to get the weight down to 2.69 lbs.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant, i.e. comparing the lightest possible X60s with the X60. I should have been more clear. However, I remember that my 2.94-lb TP240 felt noticeably heavier than my 2.79-lb X40 (even when I was just feeling each of them on my hand for a few seconds), so a frequent traveler might still prefer a 3.00-lb X60s to a 3.15-lb X60.

pianowizard wrote:Yep, that's exactly what I meant, i.e. comparing the lightest possible X60s with the X60. I should have been more clear. However, I remember that my 2.94-lb TP240 felt noticeably heavier than my 2.79-lb X40 (even when I was just feeling each of them on my hand for a few seconds), so a frequent traveler might still prefer a 3.00-lb X60s to a 3.15-lb X60.

100,000+ airline miles last year, and I still love my X31. Although it'll be time to upgrade soon ...

tomh009 wrote:100,000+ airline miles last year, and I still love my X31.

Well, I am pretty sure that those planes didn't mind carrying 0.15 extra pounds!

pianowizard wrote:Well, I am pretty sure that those planes didn't mind carrying 0.15 extra pounds!

A little bit more ... it's 3.6 lbs for the standard X31, so that's 0.91 lbs more than the lightest X60s, so it added up to about 90,000 lb-miles of extra weight carried last year!

Seriously, flying per se doesn't necessarily favor the use of light laptops, it's what one does after reaching the destination. For example, I only fly to up to three scientific conferences every year, but at each conference, I have to walk around carrying a backpack with a laptop inside for at least 10 hours per day for 5 or more days in a row. 3 lbs and 3.15 lbs can make a huge difference. For my next conference (in May), I am considering bringing just my Dell Axim x51v PDA, which should be good enough for all my needs (internet, MS Office, a few simple games).

Indeed, flying itself only requires a compact form factor (such as any X series) that can be opened and used even in the tight confines of the back of the plane.

But the airport-flight-connection-flight-airport-taxi-hotel-meeting-taxi-airport etc combinations really teach one to appreciate a light notebook ...

Due to the nature of my work and my obsession with organization and digital record keeping, I always have a ThinkPad with me. Currently the T60p for mainstream work and X60s for weekends and some traveling.

Here's an interesting and rather comical approach that I took.

I was so fed up with all the different PDA's that I had tried, and disliked that I went to the lightest X60s I could find. This was my PDA replacement solution. I solved the "instant on" appeal of the PDA by putting my ThinkPad in Stand By mode when I'm moving from one location to another during the day. Works perfectly. Of the many advantages when I switched to the ThinkPad from a PDA was my use Wifi virtually everywhere I am. At the office, in the hotels, at Starbucks frequently meeting clients, and at my home. With it's full keyboard and display the X is perfect.

Previously I always carried a Txx series, everywhere. However it's also important to know that I'm 6'3" and quite strong from constant working out and playing sports, so the only point is, for me the T was easy to carry around and frankly did not give it a second thought. Even for trade shows and conventions. However that said, it was the "bulk" that was nice to get rid of in going to an X series for certain uses. Especially on the airplane as it fits perfectly on a tray table.

My X60s is equipped with the slim battery which gives a suprizing amount of run time, and it seems that I'm nearly always near an outlet anyway like at Starbucks etc. I also have the medium and large size batteries and find that I only use the slim. I actually weighed my X60s on a small very accurate industrial scale and it read: 2.58 lbs. The layout of the X60 series keyboard is nearly identical to the Txx series, so I find even with my large hands I can type on it quite comfortably. I also find the display bright clear and quite nice for a 12" display.

Like the Txx series I find the X series a world-class machine. You cannot go wrong with either of these.

It really does boil down to your specific needs. A very careful review of what you are "actually" going to use if for, the majority of the time will answer that question for you.

Cheers.....

archer6 wrote:I actually weighed my X60s on a small very accurate industrial scale and it read: 2.58 lbs.

Wow, I am both surprised and jealous. My X60s has a non-ultralight LCD, and its weight agrees perfectly with the published values, i.e. 2.89 lbs with the slim line battery and 3.46 lbs with the 8-cell battery. So I didn't expect that the ultralight version can be so much lighter than the official 2.69 lbs. You can shed off another 0.02 lbs if you use only one RAM module!

BTW, Leonard, do you still have the MM20? If you do, are you selling it anytime soon?

pianowizard wrote:

archer6 wrote:I actually weighed my X60s on a small very accurate industrial scale and it read: 2.58 lbs.

Wow, I am both surprised and jealous. My X60s has a non-ultralight LCD, and its weight agrees perfectly with the published values, i.e. 2.89 lbs with the slim line battery and 3.46 lbs with the 8-cell battery. So I didn't expect that the ultralight version can be so much lighter than the official 2.69 lbs. You can shed off another 0.02 lbs if you use only one RAM module!

BTW, Leonard, do you still have the MM20? If you do, are you selling it anytime soon?

Frankly I was shocked myself at the low weight of my X60s, so much so that (being a bit OCD) I double checked it with another scale that we have which is certified monthly and the reading was the same.

I do still have the MM20 and have not forgotten about you. Since I purchased mine new and it's in perfect condition I hesitate to part with it. Especially since depreciation on a laptop is so great, that it's worth more to me to keep it. That said, I have a note in my database with a reminder, so if I come across one you will be the first person I contact. Finally if I ever change my mind and decide to sell mine I will contact you.

Cheers....

Thank you all for your input.

The traveling I'll do will mostly be from home to office, office to home, and meetings and destinations in between. Most of the time the distances and travel times will be relatively short and I'm known to pack light where ever I go.

My main concern is doing graphic design work on the go (ie. when I'm not at home or at my office) and not being slowed down by the machine's inability to accommodate my needs.

An X60 sounds like a great machine but a 12inch screen sounds way too small (considering I use a 21" LCD at work and a 19" CRT at home)

So to me above all performance is king, excellent color reproduction, and reliability are the things I need.

So considering my requirements how would I customize a T60 or T60p into the moblie design workstation / workhorse I need?

archer6 wrote:if I come across one you will be the first person I contact. Finally if I ever change my mind and decide to sell mine I will contact you.

Thanks very much!

Grand_Agent wrote:My main concern is doing graphic design work on the go (ie. when I'm not at home or at my office) and not being slowed down by the machine's inability to accommodate my needs.

If you plan to use the laptop "on the go" (coffee shops? public transportation?), consider something not too big.

Grand_Agent wrote:An X60 sounds like a great machine but a 12inch screen sounds way too small (considering I use a 21" LCD at work and a 19" CRT at home)

It's surprisingly usable, at XGA resolution at least. SXGA+ might be uncomfortable on 12".

Grand_Agent wrote:So to me above all performance is king, excellent color reproduction, and reliability are the things I need.

Performance and reliability are guaranteed. Excellent color reproduction - only if you get an IPS screen (15" SXGA+/UXGA on a T60/T60p or 12" XGA/SXGA+ on X60 Tablet). This limits your choices severely, but maybe you'll be fine with the regular screens. Have you tried photo editing on a laptop before? Were you satisfied with the colors?

I'm going to step forward and say T60 14" SXGA+ (firegl or X1400 doesn't matter much for photoshop). I've worked with it a lot, and ther really is a big productivity difference with photoshop on a SXGA+ vs XGA screen. The docks layout really works.

C'mon, people... it's really not a heavy machine

Grand_Agent wrote:So considering my requirements how would I customize a T60 or T60p into the moblie design workstation / workhorse I need?

Like others mentioned before, you should definitely get an SXGA+ display. To minimize the weight of the T60, you can remove the optical drive and replace it with a weight saver, AKA travel bezel. I have never purchased a new T-series Thinkpad so I don't know if you will automatically get a travel bezel when you order the T60 from Lenovo, so you should check. The extended battery is much heavier than the standard one, so you should get the latter if you want the laptop to be as mobile as possible.

But frankly, if I were you, I would rather get the Panasonic Y5. I believe it has a 4200rpm 1.8" HDD though.

pianowizard wrote:To minimize the weight of the T60, you can remove the optical drive and replace it with a weight saver, AKA travel bezel. I have never purchased a new T-series Thinkpad so I don't know if you will automatically get a travel bezel when you order the T60 from Lenovo, so you should check.
But frankly, if I were you, I would rather get the Panasonic Y5. I believe it has a 4200rpm 1.8" HDD though.

I use a travel bezel and they are sold seperately.

archer6 wrote: I use a travel bezel and they are sold seperately.

why not just put an old sock in there?

Ken Fox wrote:

archer6 wrote: I use a travel bezel and they are sold seperately.

why not just put an old sock in there?

Hmmmm......... never thought of that.....Brilliant!.....

Ken Fox wrote:why not just put an old sock in there?

I personally would not mind simply sealing the drive bay with a piece of electrical tape.

pianowizard wrote:

Ken Fox wrote:why not just put an old sock in there?

I personally would not mind simply sealing the drive bay with a piece of electrical tape.

What got me was the earlier thread in which the part (a small basically hollow piece of plastic) costs about 1.5 x as much to ship as its inflated price to buy.

I have had experience with Lenovo's parts shipping dept. in the last week that would give me pause were I a Lenovo shareholder.

Another thought would be to take measurements of the space and then to visit your local HD or Lowes. You might find a plastic part there that will fill this space (or cover the outside of it) for a dollar. I've had good luck, especially in the plumbing dept., finding oddball stuff that can be used in situations like this. Electrical tape is a quick fix that I'd study for a couple of minutes before discounting; it may well be a cheap and good solution for occasional use.

I do all of my design and development work on my new T60p 15" (loaded).

I was initially wary of the SXGA+ resolution of this IPS lcd panel, having been accustomed to a much larger and higher resolution (stand alone) display. I am no longer wary This system has lived up to my expectations thus far, it's ideal for the design work I do (primarily using CS2, Dreamweaver, Visio).

In my opinoin (and for my purposes) the 15" Flexview is the only option.