Which is best panel for WSXGA+ T60, LG or Samsung?

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pianowizard · #31 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

mskimd wrote:I came upon this site that has a mock up of what the sparkles look like : grainy image on left and normal on the right.
http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/noisescreen.png
.....
If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

I would try to convince myself that life is too short to be picky about everything. Yes, there is a difference between those two screens in that photo but the left one is really not that bad. I would just open the package and keep the laptop.

casper7777 · #32 Post by **casper7777** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:30 am

Then again, life is too short to be frustrated with a subpar display for years to come. I may be in the same boat as mskimd in a day or so when I receive my Buy.com order. At this point, I probably wouldn't take the risk by opening it - not after all the negative comments on the Samsung.

I was hoping that Buy.com's T60 WS allotment were all LG's but now it seems like its the luck of the draw. Has anyone else received your T60 order from Buy.com recently and care to share which LCD panel (samsung or LG) you got?

Thanks.

jlr18 · #33 Post by **jlr18** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:25 pm

That's a good comparison, although I found mine to be slightly worse... then again, I can't say for sure if the LG's are any better, since I had a Samsung. If there's any indication that manufacturers are going to fix this anti-reflective coating problem (rather than call it a "feature" or "nature of the beast"), I would certainly wait it out...

Rwang · #34 Post by **Rwang** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:48 pm

I have a 13N7062/63 (manufacturer part # & FRU #) panel, and it seems to be made by TMD. So far, no major complaint and no dead pixel. The viewing angle and color-depth and contrast are as good as any LCD I have used, but I have not used a Flexview yet.

mikesugar · #35 Post by **mikesugar** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:12 am

mskimd wrote: If you were in my shoes, what would you do?
Martin

Send it back! I did (87414BU) and just got a 20077KU with flexview. It blows away the Samsung wide.

I wish the dummies at lenovo would just make a 15.4 IPS Flexview!

mskimd · #36 Post by **mskimd** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:40 am

Thanks Mikesugar and everyone. Thats exactly what I'm going to do! Send it back!

After much deliberation I decided that the display is almost the most important thing for me. It's the window to information and the "cyberworld." I don't want an eyesore or wish to look through a fog.

I really would have loved the widescreen t60 for it's build, reliability and portability, but not at the cost of a crummy display. I own a dell 700m with glossy display and it's really sub par. The Dell screen is glossy, marginal backlighting, and v. poor vertical viewing angles. Part of the reason I decided on lenovo is that I felt I could rely on "quality" components, especially the screen.

I also own a Compaq X1000 15.4" with matte display that sounds far superior to screens produced today. There's no light leakage (never even heard of that before), no dead pixels, no shimmering... and that was on a Compaq! I would be happy with an adequate "no frills" screen but not one with all those problems listed on the forum. I can't help thinking that ignorance is bliss...

I went to the local stores (Bestbuy and Circuit city) and took a good look at the laptop displays. Some were perfectly fine, others were just horrible due to very uneven lighting. Do manufacturers have any quality control? Shouldn't lenovo and others reject these awful panels? Maybe that would stimulate better production standards. I know dead pixels happen and they really stink but all this other stuff... Shimmering, light leakage, poor backlighting and dark spots (especially), those are all design flaws and should be recalled or rejected. I don't know if I would have been satified with the Samsung screen or not because I never opened the box, but from what I've read here, the screen sounds marginal at best.

Shame on Lenovo for not having more stringent quality standards especially given the premium.

Most of all, I'm annoyed how much time this has cost me, time being a rare commodity these days!

I haven't decided what next. Wait a bit, order 15" ips (would prefer widescreen), try again for an LG screen or go other manufacturer(? same risks).

This is a wonderful forum, I hope Lenovo is tuned in and listening!

Thanks Everyone!!

Chrispy · #37 Post by **Chrispy** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:04 am

mskimd wrote:I haven't decided what next. Wait a bit, order 15" ips (would prefer widescreen), try again for an LG screen or go other manufacturer(? same risks).

Indeed, it is a hard choice on what to do next. I was actually considering a T60 widescreen but when I heard they used the same Samsung panels as the MacBook Pro it scared me away. I had multiple MacBook Pros with that display and they were all ... for lack of a better word... complete crap. For $2,000 I was not pleased and sent them back. My best advice would be to do your research and find out what panels different manufactures use and make your choice from there... that or just stay away from widescreen laptops in general. Best of luck in your decision!

jlr18 · #38 Post by **jlr18** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:52 am

I just got my first look at a Z61t (14" WXGA+), and I was shocked at how... decent (almost good!) the screen looked - certainly more than acceptable. So gritty screens are not "par for the course" on mattes, and if the z61t had a dedicated gpu, I would have taken it over the T60 15.4" in a heartbeat. Such a shame there's no QC on the 15.4" mattes...

pianowizard · #39 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:04 pm

mskimd wrote:Wait a bit, order 15" ips (would prefer widescreen), try again for an LG screen or go other manufacturer(? same risks).

I think a 15" display with only SXGA+ resolution (UXGA is no longer available) is unacceptable, and I too would prefer widescreen.

You should definitely not restrict yourself to Thinkpads. There are people on this forum who tend to defend Thinkpads like a religion, and you shouldn't let them affect your decision.

mskimd · #40 Post by **mskimd** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:10 pm

Chrispy wrote:Indeed, it is a hard choice on what to do next. I was actually considering a T60 widescreen but when I heard they used the same Samsung panels as the MacBook Pro it scared me away. I had multiple MacBook Pros with that display and they were all ... for lack of a better word... complete crap. For $2,000 I was not pleased and sent them back. My best advice would be to do your research and find out what panels different manufactures use and make your choice from there... that or just stay away from widescreen laptops in general. Best of luck in your decision!

Research is definately key but Lenovo and MB/MBP have a reputation of quality. You spend the premium because you know your not getting junk and you don't have to waste days/weeks to do all this research. That's what's disappointing. No one seems to have quality control these days!

Chrispy · #41 Post by **Chrispy** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:28 pm

mskimd wrote:You spend the premium because you know your not getting junk and you don't have to waste days/weeks to do all this research. That's what's disappointing. No one seems to have quality control these days!

I could not agree with you more. I was VERY displeased when I got my MBP and realized how bad the screen was. I just recently returned a T60 because the computer made a very loud buzzing sound on battery power and the screen would just turn off for no reason and not come back on without a restart. The reason I purchased from both of these companies was because I expected a high level of quality. Very upsetting!!

casper7777 · #42 Post by **casper7777** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:42 pm

I got the samsung LCD

! Back to buy.com it goes. Sorry, i can't comment on the screen since I didn't open the box.

mskimd · #43 Post by **mskimd** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:15 am

As an aside, it seems that one of the problems with our current dilemma is related to "restocking fees." 15% seems way too high. 5-10% is more like it. I really wish I could have viewed the screen before returning it as"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

If lenovo allowed returns on open items without significant penalty I probably would have bought from them directly. I think this all goes back to quality control. If they really stand by their products they should take them back... and if their products are satisfactory and functioning then selling them as refurbished wouldn't be a problem. You ever wonder why some refurbished products only get 90 days of warranty? Obviously they may not stand a full year of use. Poor quality control standard unfortunately dictate that someone out there will get screwed with a poor product refurbished or not.

BTW:Sorry Casper7777 I was rooting for you.

#44 Post by **ryengineer** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:27 am

casper7777 wrote:I got the samsung LCD ! Back to buy.com it goes. Sorry, i can't comment on the screen since I didn't open the box.

Tough Luck man.

I was hopeful for you too as I had the exact same model number.

mybellyisempty · #45 Post by **mybellyisempty** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:16 pm

Just got my T60WS in today.

8742 4BU, if I remember correctly

13N7019 13N7020 15.4 INCH LCD DISPLAY FRU

LG Phillips, and it looks great. (No dead pixels, no shimmering, nothingI can't wait to see it on high resolution ( so far, all I've done with the system is install the extra stick of RAM, and am backing up the factory image w/ Acronis before I wipe it out and install XP or Vista this weekend.

gmgfarrand · #46 Post by **gmgfarrand** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:19 am

Where on Buy.com are you guys finding the LCDs?

mskimd · #47 Post by **mskimd** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:04 pm

Where on Buy.com are you guys finding the LCDs?

The type of LCD panel used can only be looked up with the serial number either from the unit or from the lenovo box. It's not published on buy.com and even lenovo doesn't know the serial number you will be getting.

dominik · #48 Post by **dominik** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:24 pm

Can I ask somebody to help me with this? I will have my t60 from friend in US, I have to tell him what is ok, and what's not. So how to exactly check if it is ok or not?
He told me about buy.com and their prices, and we wanted to orger from there. Now I'm confused with this. Eventually they don't have model I wanted - now it's out of stock. On costcentral estimated arrival date it's 26/02/07 so maybe there will be also?

And now what I can do?
Can I just call buy.com and ask them to give me serial number of laptop? Is this possible?
If yes how can I check if it's lg or samsung? I tried to enter some data at pointed site, and I don't know how to recognize? What will be shown with lg and with samsung?

BTW: I guess that there will be no problem to expand memory to 2GB with 87445BU? Is there any possibility to expand it with some 3G card which will be working also in Europe?

BTW: is there so big difference with flexiview?

mskimd · #49 Post by **mskimd** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:46 pm

how can I check if it's lg or samsung? I tried to enter some data at pointed site, and I don't know how to recognize? What will be shown with lg and with samsung?

Buy.com nor Lenovo knows what serial number you will receive prior to shipping. However if you have the box plug in the serial number found on the outside of the box with model number under the lenovo service pages. Then, there will be a link for parts lookup. LG-Philips is part no 13N7020 and Samsung is 42T0329.

Duzo Sczescia

dominik · #50 Post by **dominik** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:01 pm

mskimd wrote: Buy.com nor Lenovo knows what serial number you will receive prior to shipping. However if you have the box plug in the serial number found on the outside of the box with model number under the lenovo service pages. Then, there will be a link for parts lookup. LG-Philips is part no 13N7020 and Samsung is 42T0329.

Duzo Sczescia :lol

Thanks mskimd for explanation!
I hope I will get the right one

Dziękuje

Chrispy · #51 Post by **Chrispy** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:16 pm

It just amazes me that Lenovo puts sub par parts in half the computers they sell. Between the various keyboards you can get and now these displays, you would think they would just get rid of the parts people don't like and stick with what works well. I have an x60 coming next week and if it has the Chicony keyboard I'm going to politely call and ask for the NMB one to be sent instead. I have done this in the past with my T43. Hopefully all those who are getting the Samsung display have better luck next time around.

Chrispy · #52 Post by **Chrispy** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:09 pm

I asked this earlier but I think it got looked over. Do the WXGA screens on the T60 wide suffer from the same problems as the Samsung on the WSXGA+ displays?

humchi1214 · #53 Post by **humchi1214** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:19 am

I ordered a T60 8744 5BU last week from another website (pcsuperdeals.com) and also got a samsung panel

I haven't opended the box yet while I hadn't decided whether to face reality using a low quality lcd or give up owning a surperb laptop such as T60.

Altough I am a loyal thinkpad user (R60 > X31 > T60) and was greatly benefited from your postings on this community while laptop researching, I now am so disappointed with thinkpads and their incompatible lcd panels.

TFT panel contrast info on thinkpad wiki showed T60 widescreens were using LG 1:500 / Samsung 1:300 and I can't understand how they could assemble completely different performance in a product.

It seems the lucky ones who got a LG panel ordered the product around Dec 06~ Jan 07 as mine appears to be manufactured in 02-28-07(China).

I would like to hear from you guys like mskimd, mikesugar, and casper7777 post when it was manufactured (Shown on barcode sticker)

steveh · #54 Post by **steveh** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:10 am

Mine was manufactured 2-07 and is an LG. Purchased directly from Lenovo, so your speculation about panel types and order dates is not correct. It appears to be whatever is available at the time of manufacture.

HTH,

Steve

humchi1214 wrote:It seems the lucky ones who got a LG panel ordered the product around Dec 06~ Jan 07 as mine appears to be manufactured in 02-28-07(China).

I would like to hear from you guys like mskimd, mikesugar, and casper7777 post when it was manufactured (Shown on barcode sticker)

pianowizard · #55 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:42 pm

Chrispy wrote:I was actually considering a T60 widescreen but when I heard they used the same Samsung panels as the MacBook Pro it scared me away. I had multiple MacBook Pros with that display and they were all ... for lack of a better word... complete crap.

My friend just bought a 15" Macbook Pro and I played with it for a while today. It was the first time I had seen this Samsung display in person and it's indeed quite grainy, and the viewing angles are rather small. However, both he and I didn't think it's as bad as what some people here have claimed.

BlueDevilTide · #56 Post by **BlueDevilTide** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:10 am

Didn't seem to see it mentioned, but I take it that the T60 4:3 don't seem to exhibit any disparity between screens, correct? Or are they all subpar or something?

pianowizard · #57 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:25 am

BlueDevilTide wrote:I take it that the T60 4:3 don't seem to exhibit any disparity between screens, correct?

My 14.1" T60 has a Samsung SXGA+ screen and it looks less grainy than my friend's Macbook Pro. This could simply be due to the 14.1" SXGA+ having denser pixels (124.1 versus 110.2 DPI), but I am not sure.

axiom · #58 Post by **axiom** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:18 am

my t60p has a tmd
will someone tell me how bad my lcd is?

aviography · #59 Post by **aviography** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:59 pm

mskimd wrote:Hi everyone,

I came upon this site that has a mock up of what the sparkles look like : grainy image on left and normal on the right.
http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/noisescreen.png

Does the image seem about right or is it more visible?

Well, I received my 87445BU today, it is the Samsung LCD, but it certainly is not as bad as what I feared it to be.

Yes the above MAC link does show somewhat of a representitive charcteristics of this "sparkly" effect, but it is more than tolerable to me, although I would have preferred it to be of more matte finish like my 5 year old T-23 that has a gorgeous 14.1" 1400x1050 screen.

That said I have to note that I had the T60 opened at my desk at work today with the screnn facing the window, even though it is a very bright sunny day outside, I neve had any issue viewing the screen, where the T23 screen is almost unreadable in certain areas even though it has a matte finish, and under the bright ambient lighting condition, you cannot notice the sparkly effect of the T60 screen at all, all I noticed was "Wow, I can see the text display perfectly!".

I then realized that one of the guy working for me had two Samsung regular desktop dispalys at his desk that also face the windows, and I marvalled last week at how good the displays looked.

I suspect what we have gained in sunlight/bright light readability in the Samsun LCD is exactly what some are also complaining about when the ambient light is reduced.

#60 Post by **archer6** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:53 pm

hoya wrote:From what I can tell after reading some posts and a few reviews of the widescreen T60, the WSXGA +LG panel is superior to the Samsung panel. does anyone have a different opinion?

I have both Samsung & LG and the LG is significantly superior.

Cheers...

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