Would future T series be consumer oriented?

[harpyeagle]

I know thinkpads are business commodities. But these are so good that anybody can be tempted to buy one for a personal use.I know a lot of my friends who have bought T-pads for pure personal pleasure.

I was contemplating to buy a z61m for the following features and was just waiting it to get better - santa rosa platform,etc.-
1.firewire
2.media card reader
3.webcam(I can live w/o this). Alas they have already stopped it.

A couple of threads in the Z series forum was talking about the T-Series widescreen replacing the Z series.

Does anyone know that down the line the T series would have the above features? Atleast when the Santa Rosa comes out - Would it have all these multi media features?

Appreciate any inputs.

Thanks

[jdhurst]

Speaking for myself, I hope the T series does not become consumer-oriented. No company, Lenovo included, has escaped the issue that consumer-oriented computers are largely junk in order to save money and appeal to consumer requirements of price instead of quality. The T series machines are one of the last bastions of decent commercial product.

You can always buy a Lenovo consumer laptop with the features you want. Dell makes consumer laptops as does HP. There are lots of low priced consumer laptops out there.
... JD Hurst

[tvsjr]

^^ Ditto.

The only "professional" laptops left seem to be Thinkpads and Toughbooks, and Toughbooks are too expensive for your average business user. Lenovo has a clear winner with the T-series... hopefully some consultant doesn't tell them they need to change it.

[jeffm]

You can get firewire, the media card reader, and a whole lot more via the express card slot:

http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/cons_wtb.jsp

I would like to see an integrated webcam. It's a valid business communication tool.

[andyP]

I agree with jdhurst
The ThinkPad is the BUSINESS MACHINE, I've never needed firewire in the 6 years I've been using ThinkPads; external hard drive is replaced by the bay adapter, memory cards - I've always used a pcmcia adapter, the solution is there. "Stick it in rather than let it hang out"
The webcam, I can also live without it, but ....... (no further comment)
It's my belief that soon we will see a 14" T wide screen in the very near future, you just need to look at the Lenovo 3000 V100 and you've got the prototype, (it's almost the same size as a T 14").
The next question is of course, if they get it right, will the X suffer??

[harpyeagle]

Thanks everyone for the replies.My bad, i should rather have asked this question-

Would the future T-series be multimedia friendly?

Jeffm - thanks for the link. I really didn't know that we can have a lot of the multimedia features via an express card and i defenitely agree with you about the webcam. I am now thinking why not buy a T series since not having multimedia features was the only thing that was stopping me from buying it.

Do you all think that waiting for santa rosa would be worth it?
[/quote]

[Petekilla]

I went to check out the t60p on lenovo....however...i did note even see a t60p with a 14.1 inch screen or any of the specs i looked for when i purchased mine...


widescreens? 15inch screens?? clearly there has been a push for this consumer draw

[RonS]

I would like to see an integrated webcam. It's a valid business communication tool.

The problem with cameras on laptops is that many companies have policies against cameras. I would not be able to bring my laptop into most of my clients' facilities if it had a camera. I'm lucky they haven't banned laptops with microphones yet. Even so, I have to keep a dummy plug inserted into the microphone port so that it's physically disabled.

[jeffm]

...many companies have policies against cameras.

Definitely a valid concern. But I see no reason that it can't be an option for loners like me.

[creed_mty]

I know thinkpads are business commodities. But these are so good that anybody can be tempted to buy one for a personal use.I know a lot of my friends who have bought T-pads for pure personal pleasure.

I bought my T60 for personal use, I only focused on the build quality of the thinkpads which I paid premium price for and not for the look of the cheap oriented (consumer oriented)hp's - toshibas - compaqs - gateways.

Last, i don't own or work for a company and i'm very happy with the machine.

[thePCxp]

I use my ThinkPad for personal use and I also use it for school. We're probably going to be getting our 2nd ThinkPad this summer, and It's going to be a T60 (By "We're" and "our" I mean Aaron and I). It's going to be my (or our) first T series and the 2nd T series that I have seen in real life. I can't wait!

[claudeo]

Consumer products are driven by low price and glitzy features. The hidden cost of glitz is usually much less robustness and reliability. Gaming machines are expensive but target a small niche market. High end PC gamers are but a blip in the market numbers. Business machines are driven by reliability. It would be death for the T line if it compromised quality and reliability to meet the requirements of a consumer product. A small example: The DC connector on a ThinkPad is not soldered to the motherboard. If it gets damaged or stressed, it does not automatically damage or crack the motherboard, it can be replaced without replacing the motherboard. That feature probably adds at least $1 to the cost of the ThinkPad, which is a large amount in a price sensitive consumer device. The lack of this feature is a major cause of failure for other leading brands. I'd rather spend the extra $ on this kind of hidden reliability enhancing feature than on a card reader (I found a tiny USB 2.0 card reader that is very fast and can double as a thumb drive to transfer files to other computers or to printing services, so I don't need the card reader). Such features, however, are not sexy and not helpful when selling machines in the consumer market.

[Loaded]

When Lenovo puts back rs232-port, then thinkpad will be perfect to my use. Now I have to use usb-to-rs232-adapter.

[dr_st]

Firewire is long overdue on the T-series. X, Z and R have had it forever, haven't they?

Webcam should be optional. Personally, I'd happily exchange the fingerprint reader, which is useless to me, for the webcam, which would allow me to have videochats without resorting to Logitech QuickCam for Notebooks. But, for some of the reasons mentioned above, it should be optional, not mandatory.

You can't keep useful features off your flagship models. It just doesn't make sense.

[jdhurst]

When Lenovo puts back rs232-port, then thinkpad will be perfect to my use. Now I have to use usb-to-rs232-adapter.

The RS-232 port disappeared with IBM at the helm - none on my T41. Myself - I don't generally need an RS-232 port, but I have clients who do (radio programming software) and I agree that at least one should be returned to the T series.
... JD Hurst

[masterus]

Hi

I don't think that RS-232 is so usefull in today's times. But good 1,3MPix webcam would be perfect speciall now when you have a SKYPE
and lot of companies now use video-conference-call.I think that can explain why ThinkPad should have built-in web-cam.

Regards

[dsalyers]

Hi

I don't think that RS-232 is so usefull in today's times.

Regards

Unfortunately, if you are a system developer serial ports are still quite common. I do a bit of network board programming, and I have to have two serial ports to perform my programming and monitoring of the board. So, I develop on a laptop, and then copy my code over to a desktop with a dual serial card installed, so that I can load the code on the network processor.

[kartak.mahino]

Firewire is long overdue on the T-series. X, Z and R have had it forever, haven't they?

Webcam should be optional. Personally, I'd happily exchange the fingerprint reader, which is useless to me, for the webcam, which would allow me to have videochats without resorting to Logitech QuickCam for Notebooks. But, for some of the reasons mentioned above, it should be optional, not mandatory.

You can't keep useful features off your flagship models. It just doesn't make sense.

I agree with you above. I think I would use the camera more effectively then the FP reader.

I think What the OP mentioned was not for consumer market, but consumer oriented. Just because FW port is not much used doesn't mean it will not be useful.

I was looking for a z61m and not it's no longer offered.

[kartak.mahino]

I bought my T60 for personal use, I only focused on the build quality of the thinkpads which I paid premium price for and not for the look of the cheap oriented (consumer oriented)hp's - toshibas - compaqs - gateways.

Last, i don't own or work for a company and i'm very happy with the machine.

Ditto here! I bought my A31 purely for personal use.

[tomh009]

I was looking for a z61m and not it's no longer offered.

Still available on the Canadian site at least:
http://caipsgws001.can.ibm.com/store/fa ... aud=LENOVO

Might be worth a call to Lenovo to find out if they are still available in the US as well but just not listed on the web site.

[nxman]

Most of business notebooks have webcams and card readers business men can have online meetings I hope Lenovo will bring back the S-Video too the T4X series had them before and if you ask me they were rock solid business machines and in my opinion better than the current T60

[pianowizard]

Ditto here! I bought my A31 purely for personal use.

And I use my business-oriented T60 at home, but my consumer-oriented Dell Inspiron 6000 at work! The only reason is that I need as much display real estate as possible at work. I used to achieve that by using two laptops simultaneously, but now it's done by taking advantage of the Inspiron's 1920x1200 screen. At home, I can use the T60 (1400x1050) in conjunction with a 24" external monitor (1920x1200).

[Miller88]

I certainly like the utilitarian feel of the thinkpads; I hate all the extra buttons. I worked on an Acer laptop and it had a ton of programs running to run all of the extra buttons and whatnot. I haven't had any problems with the thinkpad myself, but out of the small group of people I chat with a lot here at college, there have been 2 motherboard failures and a hard drive failure so far.

Mine keeps going along. But I don't use it that much.

[SafeHarbor]

I sort of bought mine for business use - I telecommute and wanted a back-up machine in case my main one goes down. I picked the R52 because I'd had good luck with a T21 - it ran from last century to this one (1999 to 2006), and I thought it had a useful life. I also wanted something tough to take with me when out with the travel trailer that wouldn't bounce apart in my rough-riding pickup.

I want my TP to play as well as work. I'm not a gamer, but I want to watch DVDs and TV on it. I use the TV out and audio out to plug into a flat screen TV mounted on the wall in the traile and I mount the TP on a port replicator inside a cabinet in order to get a quick connection.

I also use it sometimes for GPS navigation. The program is a prototype my company's developing for an enterprise company - it won't be sold to the general public.

I wolud like a wide screen TP for my next one. It's got to have TV out as well, though.

That will probably be NEXT year. This year, I think I'm going to get a UMPC just to play with.

Lamar

[kartak.mahino]

Snipped overly long, nested quote.

Did that. It's not available. The rep once again affirmed that they are discontinued.

[snife]

I went to check out the t60p on lenovo....however...i did note even see a t60p with a 14.1 inch screen or any of the specs i looked for when i purchased mine...


widescreens? 15inch screens?? clearly there has been a push for this consumer draw

Thats not the case - they have no intention of pushing ThinkPads for the consumer market - thats what the Lenovo 3000 junk is for.

The reason is that the type of screens in ThinkPads are becoming both rare and expensive (no more UXGA ), this is being forced by the vendors shipping the consumer models with the widescreens and 15" models so they are in high demand and all the panel manufacturers want to make. I can't see 4:3 ThinkPads existing after 2008 for this reason - its all going to be widescreen, i'm not a fan of widescreen but i'm now making the switch to a T60p wide to see if i can get used to it.

By the way - regarding RS232 ports - not useful to the majority of people so i think them not being on the ThinkPad is how it should be but Lenovo offer the legacy port bay adapter for the ultrabay of the T60 and these operate as full legacy ports as if they are built in - i don't think anyone else offers an option such is this which should be a plus for system administrators and developers.

[dgrey]

Personally, I'm not that concerned about many of the consumer features. Do I need S-Video? Probably not. Same thing with Firewire, Video camera, etc.

Would they be nice? Sure would be. Is it neccessary? Not so sure.

What I would really like to see is better video. Not because I want to game, but I'd like to see dedicated video memory with better cards, and a dual link DVI port rather than VGA. If someone needs VGA, the adapter is low profile and no big deal. The ability to use larger desktop screens would be nice. I suppose you could get a dock and put a higher end video card in it, but if you get a T60P, you're paying a heck of a premium for not much more than a slightly better video card. There are standards emerging that will allow end users to replace or upgrade their video card. Boy that would be nice. That and make it a little easier to swap the processor out as well.

With Vista, a memory card reader is important because of the speed increases from flash.

Serial ports are vital to people in network and development positions, and the legacy adapter would be better if there were at least 2 serial adapters.

2 hard drives is wishful thinking, but there are 1.8" hard drives that are slimmer and slimmer. It might happen. The big question will be, is it cheaper and better to have one 2.5" or two 1.8" drives.

Sony moved to LED backlit screens over a year ago, and the screens are brighter, more vibrant, and thinner, plus uses MUCH less power. I wish Lenovo would have gotten on that train.

The Z61 has a WUXGA widescreen. I'm not sure if the high res screen is considered more business or consumer, but I personally want the higher resolution, and I think perhaps others agree with me, and not from a consumer movie watching perspective.

I personally like the glossy screens, it would be nice to have it as an option.

On my widescreen T60, it looks like there is a space that is designed to put an Express Card 34 into, and that would be nice, but at the same time, continue to have the express Card 54 and the PC card.

Having gone to a SATA hard drive is very good. If they can come out with good sized drives at any kind of non horribly exorbinant cost, I'd like to put a solid state drive in later.

I also used to have an A31p, and it had a row of buttons on the left with hot buttons that you could launch applications from. The widescreen has more than enough real estate space on each side, that would have been a nice feature. Not something I'd decide to buy or not from, but still nice.

[Turbo Audi]

Speaking for myself, I hope the T series does not become consumer-oriented. No company, Lenovo included, has escaped the issue that consumer-oriented computers are largely junk in order to save money and appeal to consumer requirements of price instead of quality. The T series machines are one of the last bastions of decent commercial product.

You can always buy a Lenovo consumer laptop with the features you want. Dell makes consumer laptops as does HP. There are lots of low priced consumer laptops out there.
... JD Hurst

Wow James I could not have said it better myself.

[tomh009]

2 hard drives is wishful thinking, but there are 1.8" hard drives that are slimmer and slimmer. It might happen. The big question will be, is it cheaper and better to have one 2.5" or two 1.8" drives.

Given the performance of the 1.8" drives, I think two 1.8" drives would be a very bad idea.

If you really want a second drive and the performance is not critical, you can always pop in a Microdrive!

[mybellyisempty]

Something about 2 1.8" drives being slow

Or....the Ultrabay Slim. 2 100gb 7200rpm drives, and the DVDDL is in the Advanced Dock.


Also, as far as consumer oriented-ness goes, I'm glad to see the media control keys on the arrow keys. As stated many times before, firewire should be added.