ThinkPad T60 Successor!

[Jay_Z]

Hi All,

Just wanted to know if any of you know anything about the T6X successor to the ThinkPad?

Looking for an upgrade and want to know if it's worth waiting a little while longer - from my understanding the T60 is done later this fall, so they should have something else on the way.

If you have any notes, details, etc that would be great. Ideally looking to see how this will differ from the T60 and what benefits are going to be over this series - or whether it's better to go with the T60 now - I still have some time!

Thanks much!

[claudeo]

Why wait? the rule of the game is always the same: If you can actually buy it then it is already obsolete.

[dr_st]

What makes sense is to have reasonable gaps between upgrades.

If you have a T42/T43 now (or equivalent laptop from competitors), then it probably still serves you well, and it makes sense to wait a while longer. If you have an older model, say something with a P4-M or PIII-M CPU, then it makes as much sense to upgrade now than it does later.

Of course, if new technology is just around the corner, it's worth to wait a few weeks in any case. But since the T61 isn't even announced yet, there is no way to know how much exactly you'll have to wait for it. With any new model, it takes time between its release and its actual availability to customers.

[dsalyers]

Even though there has been no new announcements for the next t series, I would imagine we should see one before the end of May, maybe early june.

I say this because the Santa Rosa chipset is supposed to come out in april/early may.

Now to decide if you want to wait, you need to look at if the upgrades are worth it.

Santa Rosa is a new Intel mobile chipset. The biggest feature that I see is that it supports 4GB+ of ram, not the current 3.5. Additionally, the intel graphics is supposed to be updated. Finally, there is also supposed to be a speed bump in the processors, but nothing earth shattering.


To me the only thing worth waiting is possible the chipset because it supports 4GB+ of ram. However with 2GB modules costing $600+, I would not spend that kind of money for ram. The integrated graphics doesn't do much for me because I wanted an ATI card. Finally, the increased CPU speed doesn't do much for me as I don't by the fastest processor anyway.

[jeffm]

Santa Rosa will also include 802.11n, a flash-based disk cache, and 3G WAN. Here's more...

http://laptoping.com/intels-centrino-sa ... duced.html

[tomh009]

Santa Rosa will also include 802.11n, a flash-based disk cache, and 3G WAN. Here's more...

http://laptoping.com/intels-centrino-sa ... duced.html

Although (1) 802.11n is available today with Atheros cards, just not with Intel cards, and (2) 802.11n is still draft form anyway, so there is always a risk of changes until the standard is finalized.

The new WWAN is Santa Rosa is HSDPA, for GSM/UMTS networks. You can get EV-DO WWAN for CDMA networks with today's T60 already.

[jeffm]

I agree it's not going to be a block-buster upgrade.

To me, the flash-based disk cache is the only interesting new item. But even that doesn't sound as interesting as the pending completely solid-state drives. Instant on!

[dsalyers]

Santa Rosa will also include 802.11n, a flash-based disk cache, and 3G WAN. Here's more...

http://laptoping.com/intels-centrino-sa ... duced.html

I left out the n and the 3G wan, because you can get both of those things with the current generation of T series (just not intel based).

Forgot about the disk cache, that is an interesting technology. Not sure that I would wait for it if I found a decent price on a laptop and needed to refresh my current one. Will be curious to see measured performance differences.

[tomh009]

Forgot about the disk cache, that is an interesting technology. Not sure that I would wait for it if I found a decent price on a laptop and needed to refresh my current one. Will be curious to see measured performance differences.

Hitachi et al will be introducing new hard drives with built-in flash memory cache later this year -- and you can plug those into an existing T60, too, to get the same benefit. Given that, we'll have to wait and see whether Lenovo (and other manufacturers) actually chooses to implement the "Robson" caching on the motherboard as well.

[Jay_Z]

Thanks for the feedback - yes, I am overdue I am still holding onto a T23! Although I just replaced a failing hard drive so I bought a little more time!

I would think that Lenovo will also offer an ATI 256MB card since currently they max out at 128. If I could wait a short time, then I wouldn't have a system that wasn't already maxed out in some areas (video mem). - particularly in regards to Vista.

Just had some time, so I thought I would check around - the T Series will be my next system - just checking to see which one!

[dsalyers]

I would think that Lenovo will also offer an ATI 256MB card since currently they max out at 128. If I could wait a short time, then I wouldn't have a system that wasn't already maxed out in some areas (video mem). - particularly in regards to Vista.
!

They do, In the T60p, you get an ATI FireGL V5250 256MB graphic card. Now on all of the current ATI cards, they have hyper memory. Which is basically the graphic card can borrow system memory to double the video memory if it needs it. I have a ATI FGL V5200 and it reports 512MB of graphic memory, even though the onboard only has 256MB. The system memory is not permanently allocated to the card as Windows still reports that I have 1.5GB of ram.

[Jay_Z]

Yes, that's true - thanks for pointing that out. Some of the models do have the 256 graphics in the T Series (T60P) ... but only with a 14.1 or 15.0 display, not the 15.4 Wide.

Looks like the wide will be more common in the new systems (14 and 15 Wide).

[dsalyers]

Yes, that's true - thanks for pointing that out. Some of the models do have the 256 graphics in the T Series (T60P) ... but only with a 14.1 or 15.0 display, not the 15.4 Wide.

Looks like the wide will be more common in the new systems (14 and 15 Wide).

It is true that the website does not show a T60p with a widescreen, however, TABook lists this model:

T60p 8742-C6U
Core 2 Duo T7600 2.33 1GB 15.4" WSXGA+ V5250 100G 7200 DVD±RW ✶ Intel 11a/b/g None Blue PM 9 Onsite Dec 06

You can probably order it if you call in. I am fairly certain I have read some threads with people purchasing these.

Now a couple of drawbacks:
1) There is no listing for a 14.1in screen T60p wide
2) The screen is not IPS, it is the standard widescreen


If you don't care about number two, you can look around at other stores and see if you can find a Z61p (which has been seemingly discontinued) which has a 15.4in wide screen, V5200 FGL, and a WUXGA screen.

Main drawback to the Z-series (from my point of view)
1) casing material is thicker, thus the z61p is slightly thicker and heavier then the T60p.

Pluses to the Z61p,
1) built in media reader
2) cheaper over all cost, without loss in overall quality.
3) WUXGA (some may not consider this a plus)

[tvsjr]

Yes, that's true - thanks for pointing that out. Some of the models do have the 256 graphics in the T Series (T60P) ... but only with a 14.1 or 15.0 display, not the 15.4 Wide.

Looks like the wide will be more common in the new systems (14 and 15 Wide).

Bzzert.

8741C4U. T60p, 15.4" widescreen, C2D 2.33, 100GB/1GB, Mobility FireGL V5250 GPU with 256MB onboard memory + 256MB HyperMemory.

Mine's extra-pimpin with a Radeon X1300 256MB PCIe card in the dock slot to drive a second 20" DVI panel.

[Jay_Z]

Ah, nice setup!


And yes, I could certainly wait another year and benefit (spec wise) ... but I am just looking at the near term advantages

[tvsjr]

Ah, nice setup!

Yeah, I'm glad the company was paying. Out the door with a spare battery, advanced dock, extra gig of memory, case, and warranty was a hair under $4K. I spend a bit north of $5K when you add in the two 20" Dell Ultrasharp 2007FP displays (Dell has some of the best flat panels out there, IMO).

Then again, my personal 2623DDU (now almost a year old) was a bit north of $3K, and that was EPP.

[tomh009]

Are your 2007FPs S-PVA or S-IPS? I have an S-IPS 2001FP that's very nice, but reports on the 'net say that 2007FP has switched to S-PVA.

[Foxhills]

Santa Rosa comes with 800 FSB, which could be useful when running memory intensive tasks.

Even though there has been no new announcements for the next t series, I would imagine we should see one before the end of May, maybe early june.

I say this because the Santa Rosa chipset is supposed to come out in april/early may.

Now to decide if you want to wait, you need to look at if the upgrades are worth it.

Santa Rosa is a new Intel mobile chipset. The biggest feature that I see is that it supports 4GB+ of ram, not the current 3.5. Additionally, the intel graphics is supposed to be updated. Finally, there is also supposed to be a speed bump in the processors, but nothing earth shattering.


To me the only thing worth waiting is possible the chipset because it supports 4GB+ of ram. However with 2GB modules costing $600+, I would not spend that kind of money for ram. The integrated graphics doesn't do much for me because I wanted an ATI card. Finally, the increased CPU speed doesn't do much for me as I don't by the fastest processor anyway.

[tvsjr]

Are your 2007FPs S-PVA or S-IPS? I have an S-IPS 2001FP that's very nice, but reports on the 'net say that 2007FP has switched to S-PVA.

To be honest, I don't know. However, the viewing angle is quite wide and they have excellent color rendition... they look every bit as nice as my T60p 15" IPS (personal laptop), so I'd guess IPS.

I did some Googling and found the factory test procedure... I'll post the results later from the office. Now, I'll have to check all 4 (I have a pair of 2007FPs and a pair of 1905FPs on my desk) and, should I find out they aren't IPS, wonder what I've been missing! For my work (development and some graphics) they all work just fine.

[tvsjr]

Are your 2007FPs S-PVA or S-IPS? I have an S-IPS 2001FP that's very nice, but reports on the 'net say that 2007FP has switched to S-PVA.

After further investigation, it appears my 2007FPs are A03 revision, with an LGPhillips S-IPS panel.

[tomh009]

After further investigation, it appears my 2007FPs are A03 revision, with an LGPhillips S-IPS panel.

Very nice! I do want to get an S-IPS monitor for home as well, will need to keep the 2007FP in mind.

[rvacha]

I suspect the next T60 will not only have Santa Rosa but also LED backlighting as well.... and perhaps a hybrid drive. If so we should see a nice bump in runtimes

[whizkid]

If you don't need (or want to pay for) the latest technology, introduction of the new models will mean price drops for the current ones.