Thinkpads Forum

Hi all,

I am having problems with my new Hitachi 7k100. I bought this modle because a lot of people rate it on this forum.

the problem is, when I clone my current 40GB drive to it, it will not boot. The biod can see it but will not even start to boot into windows. Just after the Lenovo screen goes, there is a white underscore blinking on the top left of the screen.

If anyone can tell me if I am doing anything wrong I would appriciate it

I have the security chip Activated, but I disabled it and it still did work, so don't think thats it (I maybe wrong).

Thanks,
Ed


P.S. Does the Hitachi 7k100 even work out of the box as standard or do I need to flash the firmware?

Hi,

First, it shoud work out of the box

Is the primary partition set to active?
use a partition boot cd like gparted LiveCD to check

perhaps the mbr is not written correctly?
try fixmbr in the repair console of the windows CD

cu

killigrew wrote:try fixmbr in the repair console of the windows CD

Try the IBM Master Boot Record repair utility before you try the Windows one. The Windows utility will destroy access to the IBM Recovery partition if it existed on the disk. Here is the IBM utility:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62978

It don't look like a MBA problem to me, if I connect it to a Desktop it starts to load Windows fine, but don't even attempt it when installed in the T60.

Are there any other of the security features I may have to disable?

BR,
Ed

Ed01 wrote:It don't look like a MBA problem to me, if I connect it to a Desktop it starts to load Windows fine, but don't even attempt it when installed in the T60.

Are there any other of the security features I may have to disable?

BR,
Ed

If all you get at boot up is a blinking cursor in the upper left, it almost certainly IS a Master Boot Record Issue. The MBR on a Thinkpad is different than the MBR on a desktop. Whether a non-Thinkpad MBR would allow the disk to boot up on a desktop I do not know because I've never tried this.

You haven't given any details on how you cloned the drive. If you used Norton Ghost, you have to choose the -1b option to image the boot record properly.

If you used Rescue and Recovery, I had a failure myself with cloning a 7k100 PATA drive for my X32. I believe but am not sure that the IBM MBR repair utility would work for that, however it is my understanding that R&R will not clone the service partition, only the windows partition, so you won't end up with a complete copy of your old disk if you use R&R.

Ghost with the -1b switch, or Acronis True Image would probably be the best programs to accomplish a disk clone over to a 7K100.

Ken Fox wrote:[Ghost with the -1b switch, or Acronis True Image would probably be the best programs to accomplish a disk clone over to a 7K100.

I believe the ghost switch is -ib not -1b . Norton Ghost 2003 works perfectly for this purpose as long as the -ib switch is used.

steveg47 wrote:

Ken Fox wrote:[Ghost with the -1b switch, or Acronis True Image would probably be the best programs to accomplish a disk clone over to a 7K100.

I believe the ghost switch is -ib not -1b . Norton Ghost 2003 works perfectly for this purpose as long as the -ib switch is used.

I'm sure you are right, however for me it is a box to check under options, so I never type it in. It is in the 3rd or 4th tab over under options and about mid way down the page.

Ken Fox wrote:

steveg47 wrote: I believe the ghost switch is -ib not -1b . Norton Ghost 2003 works perfectly for this purpose as long as the -ib switch is used.

I'm sure you are right, however for me it is a box to check under options, so I never type it in. It is in the 3rd or 4th tab over under options and about mid way down the page.

If you use a dos boot disc for ghost, which I do, spelling counts.

Ed01 wrote:P.S. Does the Hitachi 7k100 even work out of the box as standard or do I need to flash the firmware?

did you get the SATA version or the PATA version?

Hi,

I didn't use Norton Ghost, but I have that too so will try that. Also if what you say about the IBM MBR being different from a desktop PC, then it sounds that, that is the problem.

I have the SATA one, and will give Norton Ghost a try tonight.

Thanks and i'll let you know if I have any other problems.

BR,
Ed

steveg47 wrote:

Ken Fox wrote: I'm sure you are right, however for me it is a box to check under options, so I never type it in. It is in the 3rd or 4th tab over under options and about mid way down the page.

If you use a dos boot disc for ghost, which I do, spelling counts.

My Ghost2003 boot disks are not command line driven unless (perhaps) you choose that option. On my boot disks, you check a box under options.

I use the Apricorn SATA Cloning Kit. In order to clone and have a bootable clone, the following is required:

1. In BIOS, set the Pre-Desktop Security to DISABLED.

2. Remove the HD from the ThinkPad and install it in the (USB) Cloning Kit.

3. Install the new Drive (The one to RECEIVE the data) in the ThinkPad.

4. Boot up with the Apricorn Cloning CD.

5. Select the USB Drive (The one that was removed from the ThinkPad and is now installed in the Cloning Kit) as the SOURCE Drive.

6. Select the new Drive (The one now installed in the ThinkPad) as the DESTINATION Drive.

7. Clone from External To Internal.

8. After Cloning is complete, The Drive that is in the ThinkPad (The drive that has RECEIVED the clone), should be Bootable.

NOTE: After following the above proceedure for some months (The Cloning is my "Data Backup" Method) I had occasion to remove the following Programs from my Computer, Client Security, and Rescue and Recovery. After removing those programs, I discovered that I could produce a Bootable Clone WITHOUT having to Switch Drives to perform the Clone. Also FWIW, the Recovery Partition (IBM Service) is Still accessable and is Cloned along with the regular partition. (The recovery Partition can only be used to return to FACTORY SHIPPED State because R&R was deleted).

Paul Pavlik wrote:I use the Apricorn SATA Cloning Kit.

There is really no reason to purchase additional software if Ed01 already has ghost. Not to imply that there is anything wrong with Apricorn software.

Ken Fox wrote:My Ghost2003 boot disks are not command line driven unless (perhaps) you choose that option. On my boot disks, you check a box under options.

Ken, In my version of Ghost 2003 there is no checkbox for the ib option, it must be added as a commandline parameter. Sure your version is 2003?

The Apricorn Cloning kit includes the Bootable CD AND a very nice external USB 2.5" SATA drive Enclosure with USB Interface. The Entire Kit is $45. The main thrust of my post was to discuss the unique problems associated with cloning a ThinkPad HD. I had the exact same problem as Ed01 (a non-bootable Clone using the "Standard" Cloning Proceedure). A paper discussing the ThinkPad HPA (and it's effect on cloning) may be of interest: ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/ac ... a_aibm.pdf

steveg47 wrote:

Ken Fox wrote:My Ghost2003 boot disks are not command line driven unless (perhaps) you choose that option. On my boot disks, you check a box under options.

Ken, In my version of Ghost 2003 there is no checkbox for the ib option, it must be added as a commandline parameter. Sure your version is 2003?

YES.

I've had this program from at least 2 different sources. The first was a long gone installation of Symantec/Norton Systemworks 2003 that included Ghost 2003. The one I now have installed (only on one computer, my spare/old desktop built from cast off parts) came in the box with Ghost 9.0 which is currently on my main desktop even if seldom used. They have been (and perhaps still are) tossing in a Ghost 2003 CD with the newer versions because some operating systems, such as Win 98, are incompatible with the newer versions.

I never use this program in any fashion other than for creating either Floppy drive or CD boot disks, usually with USB2 drivers but occasionally with the Firewire drivers or no external device drivers.

I just booted up my spare desktop to confirm that yes, this is Ghost 2003. I do think that you could probably use this program from a floppy and revert to a dos prompt, then type in switches or whatever, but with the floppys I get the autoexec.bat file automatically has the disk boot into the Ghost program, not a dos command line.

I don't know what you get if you try to have the system reboot and then work with it (i.e. you have actually installed ghost on the system being backed up). I tried that a long time ago and had nothing but problems with it.

Aha! Found it Ken, under options- Image/Tape. I have used Ghost for so long that I never use the Options Tabs because it's so limited. I automatically use the commandline for entering the many, many options ghost provides that most individuals are not aware of. Incidently I use a bootable cd to load ghost with a number of drivers that allow me to use almost any usb external device including dvd burners, harddrives, flashdrives. The cd which was a long time in the making and has gone thru many improvements the lastest of which is the ability to boot from and burn to the same dvd/cd burner. Very useful for laptops that do not have a cd/dvd reader. My thanks to Panasonic who has a number of excellent dos drivers for this purpose.

steveg47 wrote:Aha! Found it Ken, under options- Image/Tape. I have used Ghost for so long that I never use the Options Tabs because it's so limited. I automatically use the commandline for entering the many, many options ghost provides that most individuals are not aware of. Incidently I use a bootable cd to load ghost with a number of drivers that allow me to use almost any usb external device including dvd burners, harddrives, flashdrives. The cd which was a long time in the making and has gone thru many improvements the lastest of which is the ability to boot from and burn to the same dvd/cd burner. Very useful for laptops that do not have a cd/dvd reader. My thanks to Panasonic who has a number of excellent dos drivers for this purpose.

I'll trade you a relative of your choice for a copy . . . .

Paul Pavlik wrote: NOTE: After following the above proceedure for some months (The Cloning is my "Data Backup" Method) I had occasion to remove the following Programs from my Computer, Client Security, and Rescue and Recovery. After removing those programs, I discovered that I could produce a Bootable Clone WITHOUT having to Switch Drives to perform the Clone. Also FWIW, the Recovery Partition (IBM Service) is Still accessable and is Cloned along with the regular partition. (The recovery Partition can only be used to return to FACTORY SHIPPED State because R&R was deleted).

Paul, I'm interested in cloning with Apricorn. I have their external drive enclosure and have been pretty happy with it. When you say you "produce a Bootable Clone WITHOUT having to Switch Drives to perform the clone" I assume you are just leaving the clone in the housing connected via USB and running the Apricorn soft to do the clone (basically the reverse of what you originally did)?

Did you mean to say it was necessary to remove those programs for this to work, or just happened to discover it would work after having removed those programs?

Do you put the clone back in the main bay just to check and make sure it works? Ever try putting it in the SATA Ultra Bay adapter and booting from that?

Thanks for the info,
Den

Paul Pavlik wrote:The Apricorn Cloning kit includes the Bootable CD AND a very nice external USB 2.5" SATA drive Enclosure with USB Interface. The Entire Kit is $45. The main thrust of my post was to discuss the unique problems associated with cloning a ThinkPad HD. I had the exact same problem as Ed01 (a non-bootable Clone using the "Standard" Cloning Proceedure). A paper discussing the ThinkPad HPA (and it's effect on cloning) may be of interest: ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/ac ... a_aibm.pdf

The HPA format discussed in that article is not used on the t60 or newer thinkpads, thank god. If it was used in your t60 your apricorn software would probably be unable to copy it.
As I recall this methodology was implemented in drive firmware and required the utilities FWBACKUP and FWRESTOR to backup and restore the HPA. Though I'm not positive I believe this type of HPA was used in the t40 and t41 models. Do a search for HPA in the forum for a lot more info on this subject.

Hi,

Right I've tried and tried with still no joy.

1) Put new hard drive in external USB case
2) Run norton ghost in DOS, and cloned drive using the -id switch
3) New drive starts to boot but shows the dreaded blue screen of death

Does anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ed

Ed01 wrote:Hi,

Right I've tried and tried with still no joy.

2) Run norton ghost in DOS, and cloned drive using the -id switch

Does anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ed

Was that a typo in line "2) -id switch" he said -ib switch

DenTP4rm: I used to have a Sony Laptop with a failing HD. I bought a Apricorn Cloning Kit. Apricorn calls it a "Upgrade Kit because a different (usually higher capacity) drive can be cloned from the internal HD. This worked fine and I replaced the HD in the Sony. I also bought another spare HD and did a Clone TO the spare External drive once a week as my form of Data Backup.

When I got the T60, I decided to buy a spare 60gb HD and a Apricorn 2.5" SATA USB Cloning Kit as my Data Backup method. I cloned the HD a number of times before actually trying the Clone in the T60. When I did, it would not boot (Just a blinking cursor, after the "ThinkPad" screen).

I called Apricorn and they said that I had to Disable Security on the Pre-Desktop Area (In BIOS). I did and tried the resulting Clone in the T60. Again, it wouldn't boot.

I called Apricorn again and they said that I would have to Clone from the EXTERNAL HD to the HD mounted in the T60. This method produces a Bootable Clone, but it's a pain in the butt to have to switch drives to Clone and then switch back.

Subsequently, I removed R&R and Client Security since I don't need them. But I stilled switched drives to Clone.

Then, I found the IBM MBR repair software and I produced a CD with the file on it. I thought that it might be able to fix a (Non-Bootable) Clone made the "Regular" (Clone from Internal to USB) way.

Before I ran the program, I tried (what I thought was) a "Non-Bootable" Clone and it Booted!

Subsequently, I determined that the "Safeguard" portion of the Client Security Software (That I had removed) probably caused the Clone (Made the easy, Non-switched way) to be Non-Bootable.

So, when the Client Security software is still installed on a ThinkPad, The Cloning must be done from the External USB Drive to the Internal Drive. (Be carefull to select the USB Drive as the "Source"). IE, the "Destination" Drive must be mounted in the T60.

I don't have a Ultrabay SATA Adaptor, Don't know what would happen with a Clone Drive in it.

steveg47: I was unaware that the HPA system is not used on the T60. My Cloned Drive definitely has the complete recovery partiton on it.

Paul Pavlik wrote:steveg47: I was unaware that the HPA system is not used on the T60. My Cloned Drive definitely has the complete recovery partiton on it.

steveg47 is correct. See following for an explaination.

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Rescue_and_Recovery

Sorry typo - I meant to put -ib (Image Boot) switch.

Also I do not have the hidden IBM partition because I deleted it.

BR,
Ed

Got it working at long last!!

Does anyone think it is a bit loud?

BR,
Ed

P.S. Thanks guys for all your help!

Looks like I spoke too soon... Windows XP can not install the drive for some reason.

I know I should not have to but does anyone know where I can download the 7K100 drivers and update them manually?

Thanks,

BR,
Ed

Does the drive show up in the Windows installer? If not you either need to use the Intel Storage Matrix Drivers during install (or integrate them into the CD like I did) or switch the SATA mode to Compatibility in the BIOS. If it did show up during install then I'm not sure what the problem is. As far as drivers for the disk, there are none, just the controller.

I do not believe you need any special drivers. What you need is to follow Paul Pavlik's steps above. Pay particular attention to the first 3 steps in his post. Of course Paul is using different cloning software, so you still need to use the -ib switch.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 803#254803

EDIT: One caution. If you put a hard drive in the main hard drive slot of the ThinkPad without the hard drive cage, you need to be certain that the pins plug properly into the connector. I had a problem when I put an aftermarket drive in the main hard drive slot of my T42 and the connector on the hard drive did not line up with the connector in the slot. The top row of pins on the hard drive was connected to the bottom row of pins on the motherboard connector. Needless to say, the T42 would not boot. The cage prevents this from happening, but you can plug the drive in without it - if you are careful.

It clone went 100% perfect without any problems.

The only thing now is that the HD is not being installed correctly.

Here is the error message...

==============================================

Cannot Install this Hardward

There was a problem installing this hardware:

[IMAGE] HTS721010G9SA00

An error occurred during the installation of this device

The filename, directory name, or volume lebel syntax is incorrect.

==============================================

Any ideas guys?

BR,
Ed