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speedbump · #1 Post by **speedbump** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:15 am

I have 2 new Thinkpads here... T60 1951-44U and a T60P 2007-8DU. The T60P has a DVD burner, the T60 only a CD burner. I have created a set of back-ups for the T60p http://www.lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=59 (1 CD and 1 DVD), and last night while trying to do the same on the T60 (no DVD burner) I got to about the 6th CD and the backup failed... What I'd like to do is 'temporarily' put the T60p's DVD burner in the T60 to create a much simpler set of BUs there... If I switch the hardware, and reboot, will I mess up the T60s current CD only setup? If I need drivers both these machines are networked so I can get DVD drivers accross the network if the Win default aren't on...

Am I asking for trouble doing this? I'd sure like to have a 2 disk option ror restoring vrs the 6+ version CD only back-ups will create.

seeplus · #2 Post by **seeplus** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:32 pm

You should be able to make this switch without any problems, from what I can see.

You can automatically download the correct drivers after installing the alternate drive, in the event that they're missing.

speedbump · #3 Post by **speedbump** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:03 pm

Thanks Seeplus... The swap worked perfectly.

BTW Its a real pleasure to be working with these TPs... After a stretch with the 'Dell dude' I really appreciate the TP build quality.

My last Dell laptop is now on its 3rd MB, and second HD (in 3 yrs), and is now off warranty (very very scary).

pianowizard · #4 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:12 pm

speedbump wrote:My last Dell laptop is now on its 3rd MB, and second HD (in 3 yrs), and is now off warranty (very very scary).

This has happened to many Thinkpads, too.

speedbump · #5 Post by **speedbump** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:43 pm

This has happened to many Thinkpads, too.

Had to ruin my day didn't you

Actually there is no comparison in the build quality between my old Dell and my two new Thinkpads (TPs are much much more solidly built)...

One more advantage (I hope) is no more"Good Morning Delhi" (actually Bangalor) when I need tech support... I have absolutely nothing against people from India; what I do have a problem with is that a tech call which should take 20 minutes takes 3 hrs... most of the first hour spent listening to music...

This being said, I haven't tried Lenovo support yet

Cheers...

pianowizard · #6 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:59 pm

speedbump wrote:Actually there is no comparison in the build quality between my old Dell and my two new Thinkpads (TPs are much much more solidly built)...

I agree with that, but if you look at laptop reliability surveys, Thinkpads are not a lot better than Dells.

speedbump wrote:This being said, I haven't tried Lenovo support yet

I called Lenovo support once and it was someone with a thick Indian accent. I too have absolutely no bias against Indian people, but when their accent interferes with communication, that's annoying.

speedbump · #7 Post by **speedbump** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:17 pm

PC Magazine

The name has changed, but service and reliability are much the same, which is both very good and very bad news. In early May, IBM completed the sale of its personal computing division to the Lenovo Group, a Chinese manufacturer, and, at least for the time being, Lenovo has kept much of the operation intact. Much as they did last year, readers this year give the old IBM PC division high marks for technical support, and they're just as positive about the reliability of its ThinkPad notebooks, which win the Readers' Choice award for Windows notebooks. But, once again, they're terribly critical of desktop reliability, so much so that Lenovo's overall score for desktops ties with HP/Compaq and eMachines for the worst score in our desktop survey.

Lenovo still routes all U.S. support calls through a single call center in Atlanta, Georgia. It forwards particularly difficult problems to more experienced technicians working beside system engineers in Raleigh, North Carolina

pianowizard · #8 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:25 pm

speedbump wrote:PC Magazine

I have seen that and several other surveys. They all say Lenovo support is "significantly better" than others', which means "statistically significantly better", not "much much better". If I were the editor of these articles, I would have written "consistently better" instead to avoid misleading the readers. The scores that these surveys report are typically, say, 8 points for Lenovo versus 6.5 for Dell, not a huge difference IMO, especially if you compare it with what many Thinkpads.com members have claimed. And like I said recently, 8 versus 6.5 is approximately the price difference between Thinkpads and Dell laptops, so you aren't losing much by getting a Dell laptop. You just get what you pay for.

#9 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:26 pm

pianowizard wrote:
speedbump wrote:Actually there is no comparison in the build quality between my old Dell and my two new Thinkpads (TPs are much much more solidly built)...
I agree with that, but if you look at laptop reliability surveys, Thinkpads are not a lot better than Dells.

8.6 vs 8.1 rating in the business notebook reliability ratings in the last PC Magazine survey. Not an enormous difference, but it is there.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2006499,00.asp

What I suspect, though, is that Dell's design/manufacturing quality is good enough for how most people use their notebooks, and, as a result, the reliability is pretty good for them. But the harder the life of the notebook (as you get into the "road warrior" territory) the greater the benefits from the ThinkPads' more robust design and construction. At least that's my theory!

In spite of having covered some 200K miles around the world, my X31 still looks and works pristine compared to my coworkers' Latitudes ...

speedbump · #10 Post by **speedbump** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:56 pm

Tomh009

In spite of having covered some 200K miles around the world

BTW I'm one of the guys who 'shepherds' you "around the world"... 38k miles (In March alone

)... Interesting thought tough... 35 yrs in the business... it would be fun to convert those years to miles.

Cheers,
SB

#11 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:22 pm

Cool ... you don't even need an upgrade to sit up front, right?

Which airline are you working for? AC? And, more importantly, does your ThinkPad travel all those miles with you?

speedbump · #12 Post by **speedbump** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:36 pm

Which airline are you working for? AC? And, more importantly, does your ThinkPad travel all those miles with you?

Answers are yes, and yes.... routes are Asia, EU and occasionally S America.

I believe the biggest issue with laptop MBs (I should be on a first name basis with M Dell over this), is that we tend to flex them when travelling. The Dell is no where near as 'stiff' (read solid) as the TP and I really hope that translates into fewer 'trips home' for service.

BTW I picked up my T60p just before Christmas in the 'Lenovo Canada Boxing day sale'... I paid just a little more than half the currently quoted price on their WWW... I always wanted one, now I have 2 (actually my wife has a T60)...

Happy trails,
SB

#13 Post by **Kyocera** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:49 pm

pianowizard wrote:I called Lenovo support once and it was someone with a thick Indian accent. I too have absolutely no bias against Indian people, but when their accent interferes with communication, that's annoying.

Kwoon, over the years I have called tech support on some issues and usually get someone out of atlanta, they are always helpful and try to cover all the bases, most aren't intimidated by those of us with TP knowledge, it helps them speed up the troubleshooting process.

Mike

#14 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:34 pm

speedbump wrote:I believe the biggest issue with laptop MBs (I should be on a first name basis with M Dell over this), is that we tend to flex them when travelling. The Dell is no where near as 'stiff' (read solid) as the TP and I really hope that translates into fewer 'trips home' for service.

I agree on the frame -- ThinkPads, and specifically T60, have some of the best frames in the business, so you should do much better with the T60.

pianowizard · #15 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:23 pm

tomh009 wrote:I agree on the frame -- ThinkPads, and specifically T60, have some of the best frames in the business, so you should do much better with the T60.

In terms of flexes in the chassis, Dell laptops have improved a lot in the last two or three years. I have owned four Inspirons. The oldest of these, an 8200 (introduced in 2002), was probably the softest laptop I've owned and I always had to move it extremely gently. The second oldest one, a 600m (introduced in 2003), was noticeably sturdier but still much weaker than the average Thinkpad. By contrast, the two newest models, a 700m (2004) and a 6000 (2005), have very solid chassis. They both would squeak a little bit when pressed hard enough and their plastics look cheap, but they don't bend at all even when lifted by one corner. This is especially remarkable for the 15.4" Inspiron 6000, considering how wide it is.

The gap between Dell laptops and Thinkpads has narrowed, IMO.

#16 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:46 pm

But, pw, as I think I have mentioned before -- it's really the Latitudes that we should be comparing with ThinkPads. The Inspirons are targeted at the consumer and SOHO market, like the Lenovo 3000 series.

And I continue to hold my differing opinion on the Latitude quality

as I continue to see them at work where 95% of the laptops are from Dell.

What would be very interesting would be to see someone (a web site or otherwise) to completely disassemble a T60 and a Latitude D820 and analyze the components and construction.

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