T60 - your opinion

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Torque · #1 Post by **Torque** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:08 am

Hi,

Six months ago I switched from a T43 to a Macbook Pro.

OS X is great, there is no denying that Apple made a good decision when they chose a UNIX kernell for their new operating system. It does however crash once in a while, like windows. Because it uses some 3rd party apps than -can- be flawed, like windows. So all in all, I was just as happy using windows. So it won't be the OS deciding here.

However, I am not so pleased with the Macbook Pro itself.

[*]The logic board just burned out, needing replacement.
[*]It's incedibly hot at all times.
[*]The keyboard is rubbish when compared to the IBM I had. The keys look like they'd been throw on, some skewing and others just not lining up properly.
[*]The screen is grainy. This is a chipset issue, but Apple won't replace it. Hopefully the new logic board will fix this.
[*]The trackpad button is inconsistent - the button is loose and makes a double clicking sound when pressed.
[*]It scratches waay to easily. Of course, I knew this when I bought it. Anodized aluminium isn't exactly robust.
[*]The battery time is awful. 3,5 hours MAX.
[*]General stuff. Sometimes you have to hold the power-on button for three seconds to turn it on, other times it just goes on as soon as you touch it. The LEDs for the CAPS-LOCK and NUM-LOCK button build up charge, lighting when the buttons aren't on. This goes away when you press them, then builds up again.

Alright, this was my apple-rant. Sorry about the length of it, this is no Apple forum. Just had to let it out.

So, I'm thinking of going back to the Thinkpad.
I've been considering this one. Don't mind the danish:
http://www.laptops.dk/product_info.php? ... 00e1176e62

I really like the 14,1" form factor. That, and the 1400x1050 pixel display.
However, the fan on the T43 was annoying. It was always on (a noisy level, at least) and pulsating.
How does the T60 stack up, are Lenovo over this issue?

I'd really like some honest opinions on how the T60 is. I haven't got the possibility of getting a T60 in my own hands before buying, and the only thing I have to compare with are my own experiences with the T41p and T43. Hope you will help out

[*]Heat. What is your idle temp?
[*]Noise. Is the fan always on, or at least on a noisy level like the T43?
[*]Build. Does it flex? if so, how would you compare it to earlier T-series?
[*]Battery life.

Pardon the bad grammar, I hope you made it through the lot.

#2 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:15 am

I recently bought a 14.1" T60 (though not for me) -- Core 2 Duo but with the integrated GMA 950 graphics. It idled in the 50-55C range (NHC doesn't make a big difference with Core 2 Duo), with fan going on at about 2900 rpm at times. However, the fan was surprisingly quiet, definitely quieter than the one on my X31.

Build quality felt solid in my admittedly brief experience with it. Unfortunately I didn't use it long enough to get real-life battery life experience with it.

pianowizard · #3 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:30 am

I owned a T43 for five months and now have a T60. The answers below compare these two units.

Torque wrote:[*]Noise. Is the fan always on, or at least on a noisy level like the T43?

The T60's fan is much more quiet.

Torque wrote:[*]Build. Does it flex? if so, how would you compare it to earlier T-series?

The T60 flexes less than the T43.

Torque wrote:[*]Battery life.

I haven't tested this yet because I always use the laptop plugged in.

Superego · #4 Post by **Superego** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:10 pm

[*]Heat. What is your idle temp?

Hovering around 53C in my warm office, about 47-48C in my apartment that I keep cooler. I find the GPU runs hotter (60-65C) at idle.

[*]Noise. Is the fan always on, or at least on a noisy level like the T43?

I can't comment on the T43 but my T60p fan isn't noticeable except when a) I'm in a fairly quiet room/office or b) have some CPU intensive work. You can use something like NHC or Shimodax's fan utility to control the fan. Right now my fan is in the 2800-3000 rpm range. I should note that I'm running in max. performance mode.

[*]Build. Does it flex? if so, how would you compare it to earlier T-series?

This one bothered me initially. When I first got my T60p in August there was some flex on the right side below the ctl and alt keys. Flash forward a few months, in which time I had taken removed the keyboard and palmrest a few times and had sent the unit into for servicing (dvd-ram issue), and the flex and creaking was gone. I don't know if it was the result of me reassembling the keyboard or Lenovo's service, but now I have no flex. On a side note, I will say that I LOVE the LCD hinges on my T60p. I still have to use two hands to open it up; they just seem more beefy than my T40.

[*]Battery life.

Sorry, running mostly on AC so I can't comment. The few times I have I've gotten about 4.5 hours. This is with a combination of wireless on and off and screen brightness in the mid range.

perry_78 · #5 Post by **perry_78** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:33 pm

Call laptops.dk whether they are selling laptops intended for EU market, or whether it's rebadged Chinese models - that was a claim made on some forum, after IBM DK rejected an RMA.

Otherwise, owns a mbp on every level.. Noise and heat is virtually non existant unless running the VGA + CPU at max performance and max load, and then, all you get is the fan spinning a little. It's very loud though, not at all. Nothing compared to a macbook, which sounds like its being tortured on the breaking wheel.

hoplite · #6 Post by **hoplite** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:33 pm

What are you guys using to check your CPU/mobo temp?

brikeh · #7 Post by **brikeh** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:15 pm

I HATED my MBP and recently had it sent back in favour of a 14.1" T60 C2D and I am VERY happy about it. The MBP is no pro machine...it feels flimsy, and the build is awful. The display is a joke.

#8 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:27 pm

hoplite wrote:What are you guys using to check your CPU/mobo temp?

There are two recommended choices:

NHC: http://www.pbus-167.com/
RMClock: http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml

hoplite · #9 Post by **hoplite** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:47 pm

Thanks for the info. I think I'll try rightmark since the pbus one gave me my first bsod on vista...then procedded to give me my second bsod on vista.

#10 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:07 pm

Sorry, didn't realize you were on Vista -- yes, use RMClock instead as NHC doesn't have a Vista version yet.

#11 Post by **Kyocera** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:53 pm

I'm running Vista Business and XP on my t60, battery life is less in Vista but there the fan is silent and heat is not an issue. My wireless connections are better in Vista than XP, that was a big surprise to me and a pleasant one. I did notice some heat from the HD when installing the OS's but not with my normal everyday use.

Torque · #12 Post by **Torque** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:57 am

Thank you all for your replies

Looks like the T60 is a great machine. From the reviews I've read so far, it seems that the T60 is made som a lighter shade of plastic, is this true?

Torque · #13 Post by **Torque** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:02 am

perry_78 wrote:Call laptops.dk whether they are selling laptops intended for EU market, or whether it's rebadged Chinese models - that was a claim made on some forum, after IBM DK rejected an RMA.

Otherwise, owns a mbp on every level.. Noise and heat is virtually non existant unless running the VGA + CPU at max performance and max load, and then, all you get is the fan spinning a little. It's very loud though, not at all. Nothing compared to a macbook, which sounds like its being tortured on the breaking wheel.

I've sent them an email regarding this issue. Laptops.dk propably has the best prices when it comes to IBM's in denmark - but it won't be worth much if thereøs going to be guarantee issues in the future.

Thanks alot for your reply.

NS · #14 Post by NS » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:16 am

Torque wrote:

<snip>it seems that the T60 is made som a lighter shade of plastic, is this true?

All i could say is all thinkpads color are the same. The black shade are the same. (if this is what you want to know).

#15 Post by **Kyocera** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:59 am

My T60 is the same color as my past 600's t30, t42.

perry_78 · #16 Post by **perry_78** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:16 am

Well, that is largely because IBM/Lenovo doesn't sell the Thinkpad range in the retail consumer market, but only corporate.

laptop4u.dk also has IBM's but they are expensive

Torque · #17 Post by **Torque** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:01 am

Thanks for replying on the colour. Must have been the cameras then

How about the keyboard? Same good build as the earlier ones?

#18 Post by **Kyocera** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:32 am

Well my keyboard is excellent, very solid. You know you find a lot of negative feedback in these forums because people usually come here needing some help with a problem or misunderstanding.
I use my t60 daily and am pretty much a road warrior type, other than some wireless problems when it first came which are over,

this is a solid machine. Very happy with it and all the other thinkpads i've had in the past.

Torque · #19 Post by **Torque** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:11 pm

Kyocera wrote:Well my keyboard is excellent, very solid. You know you find a lot of negative feedback in these forums because people usually come here needing some help with a problem or misunderstanding.
I use my t60 daily and am pretty much a road warrior type, other than some wireless problems when it first came which are over, this is a solid machine. Very happy with it and all the other thinkpads i've had in the past.

Great, I'll look forward to the T60 then.

rleo25 · #20 Post by **rleo25** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:37 pm

I received my T60 on October 28/06, until now it has worked without any complaint. This is almost a perfect machine. Only dissapointing thing: I upgraded myself to 2GB RAM and get the palmrest nails broken so it now doesn´t fit perfectly as when the machine arrived from factory, that´s a pity but Lenovo design engineers made a mistake in this case...

DavidNY · #21 Post by **DavidNY** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:20 pm

In the US if one has a palmrest or keyboard problem they can call 1-800-IBM-SERV and get a new one the next business day. I'm not sure how things work in Columbia.

rleo25 · #22 Post by **rleo25** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:50 pm

Too bad arround here... Lenovo´s rep says it is not covered by the warranty and I am supposed to buy on my own account. The part is out of stock and I am trying to buy it in the USA, a relative who lives in S.L.C. is looking for it right now... those nails are so flimsy that you can broke´em just with a gentle touch... take care when upgrading your own RAM my friends...

Jedacite · #23 Post by **Jedacite** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:42 pm

Torque wrote:Hi,
I really like the 14,1" form factor. That, and the 1400x1050 pixel display.
However, the fan on the T43 was annoying. It was always on (a noisy level, at least) and pulsating.
How does the T60 stack up, are Lenovo over this issue?

I'd really like some honest opinions on how the T60 is. I haven't got the possibility of getting a T60 in my own hands before buying, and the only thing I have to compare with are my own experiences with the T41p and T43. Hope you will help out

[*]Heat. What is your idle temp?
[*]Noise. Is the fan always on, or at least on a noisy level like the T43?
[*]Build. Does it flex? if so, how would you compare it to earlier T-series?
[*]Battery life.

Pardon the bad grammar, I hope you made it through the lot.

I don't know about the actual temp but the exhaust port is slightly warm under light use (encoding mp3s, browsing the net and listening to music.) Just for the record I use maximum performance whenever I'm plugged in.

Under heavy use (gaming) the laptop can get warm on the bottom if it is sitting on your lap. I find that I can only game with it on my lap for 20-30 mins before having to place it somewhere else. The exhaust port on the left does get quite hot though.

A lot of people complain about their fans, mine is excellent. I feel that it could probably spin up a little more, but I find it very quiet. I can't hear it over outside noise with the exception of when I am gaming, but that is to be expected (even gaming its quieter than my Toshiba A70 at Idle)

The build quality is good, I've never had another ThinkPad so I can't compare against any of those, but its by far the best of any laptop I've used or owned.

I can't say how long the battery will last as I've never had to use it till it died, but I can say that its ran for 3 hours with Bluetooth and wifi enabled without dying (and still a charge left.) This is with the 6 cell.

I have the T60-2623-D6U if you want to check it out.

#24 Post by **Johan** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm

With respect to IBM warranty offered by the Danish net-shop www.laptops.dk there have been some troubles reported over the years in the media that IBM Denmark did not support PC's bought via laptops.dk - see e.g. http://www.computerworld.dk/art/22400?a=block&i=22 and http://archive.bsd-dk.dk/mail/bsd-dk//2 ... /0074.html and http://www.hardwareonline.dk/traad.aspx ... &tid=90557 and http://www.notebooktest.dk/bbs/viewtopi ... fc502830c0 and http://www.newsgroups-index.com/group/d ... _l566.html

I don't know if these issues have been resolved as of today.

As far as I know, laptops.dk sells many ThinkPad's which originally have been delivered by IBM/Lenovo to countries outside Denmark (e.g. Germany). These laptops are then imported and subsequently mounted with a Danish keyboards and a having a Danish copy of e.g. Windows XP installed. Some of their ThinkPad's may also be refurbished (e.g. delivered by other distributors of such non-Danish PC's as e.g. www.dcc.dk).

Before trading with laptops.dk I would very specifically ask them about the precise terms about their warranty on the ThinkPad’s, they sell. And - remember to get it in writing, if promises shall have any value!

Regards,

Johan

WPWoodJr · #25 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:16 pm

For your enjoyment, my whiny fan at 2 different speeds:

Slower
Faster

Turn the volume up because the recording is at a low level.

DavidR · #26 Post by **DavidR** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:30 pm

For what it's worth, I bought my T60p 2gig Ram, 7200 rpm drive, 15" flexview, ATI 5250, Duo-core 2GHz, fingerprint, DVD-R in December. It has been physically flawless. It goes 100 miles to a very dirty field office every week, is set up and closed several times a day there and connects to different LANs and WiFi without issues, hibernates and sleeps on command, reads my finger print every time first time, etc, etc. I see no flex or squeaks or other indication of poor construction. I had some initial software issues but it's all over now except my new USB flash drive does not install the proper drivers. I use a wireless USB mouse and am very happy with the system. It is quiet (no fan noise) and reasonably warm (not hot). The keyboard is excellent. The screen is superb. The video performance is excellent. I have one dead pixel but most times I can't even find it much less be bothered by it. I did remove all the non IBM software and installed Comodo firewall and AVG virus. I use Registry First Aid, PerfectDisk and CCleaner for maintenance. System update 3 works now. I have not updated the BIOS yet. MathCAD, Primavera, MS Project, AutoCAD, OpenOffice, Firefox, MS Office, Thunderbird, Quicken, Adobe 6 Pro round out my software load. My battery has cycled 83 times and still has 53Wh out of the 56 design capacity.

I would heartily recommend this machine without question, qualm or hesitation to any mobile power user.

WPWoodJr · #27 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:46 pm

Does your fan whine like mine? (See my previous post)

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