Magnesium composite vs CFRP

[axiom]

Hello everyone,

I just noticed that the 14.1" T60 comes with a magnesium composite top rather than CFRP top on its 15" brother, do any of you know which one is better?
Also the 15" is 0.13-0.2" thicker than the 14.1", what makes it the case? Does the extra thickness come from some magnesium lid reinforcement to compensate the CFRP flex?
I guess what I want to ask is whether the 14.1" is tougher or the 15.1/15.4"

Thanks,

[darrenf]

The 14" magnesium lid is lighter and a lot thinner than the 15" CFRP, but I would guess that Lenovo worked it out so that the strength is sufficient in both.

Another consideration is the surface of the lid. The magnesium lid is coated in a really cool (IMO) rubberized finish that assists grip when holding the laptop against a book, papers, etc. The lid on the 15" is a pebbled plastic finish that isn't all that special (again, IMO) as laptops go.

-darren

[mybellyisempty]

Maybe it's different for the widescreen, but my T60 feels like it's got a rubberized top.

It feels comparable to my X30's top, and certianly feels different than the plastic palmrest of the X30.


The 15" LCD is thicker than the 14" LCD; my T42P's lid was much thicker than my 14" T4x were(even though both had magnesium) it's really nothing to worry about, and likely has little to do with one being CFRP rather than magnesium.

[axiom]

Maybe it's different for the widescreen, but my T60 feels like it's got a rubberized top.

I am pretty certain that only the 14.1" T60 has the magnesium top.
Maybe they rubberize those CFRP tops too?

The 15" LCD is thicker than the 14" LCD; my T42P's lid was much thicker than my 14" T4x were(even though both had magnesium) it's really nothing to worry about, and likely has little to do with one being CFRP rather than magnesium.

I guess that says, in terms of the material, magnesium is better than CFRP. Right?

[darrenf]

The 15" LCD is thicker than the 14" LCD; my T42P's lid was much thicker than my 14" T4x were(even though both had magnesium)

All 15" ThinkPads have used plastic/CFRP lids. I'm assuming from context that your T42P was a 15". If so, it had a plastic lid.

my T60 feels like it's got a rubberized top.

I stand corrected on the surface material -- sorry for the errant characterization. I may have been thinking of the finish on the Z-series lids.

-darren

[okashira]

Why would you come to that conclustion? It's more likely the IPS display in the 15" is thicker then the cheap TN in the 14". CFRP can be made thinner & lighter then magnesium for the same stiffness as far as materials go.

[nxman]

I have both 15 & 14 inch T60's and they both feel exactly the same.

[mybellyisempty]

Why would you come to that conclustion? It's more likely the IPS display in the 15" is thicker then the cheap TN in the 14". CFRP can be made thinner & lighter then magnesium for the same stiffness as far as materials go.

I'm pretty sure that the Tabook listed my T42 as having a magnesium top, but CFRP bottom. It's been several years though, so I could very well be wrong.


Regardless of the material used, I believe the IPS panel is thicker. I believe the 15" panels were thicker than the 14", and that accounted for the difference in size in panels, rather a difference in materials. Hence my saying (although possibly incorrectly) "even though both had magnesium".

[archer6]

Hello everyone,

I just noticed that the 14.1" T60 comes with a magnesium composite top rather than CFRP top on its 15" brother, do any of you know which one is better?
Also the 15" is 0.13-0.2" thicker than the 14.1", what makes it the case? Does the extra thickness come from some magnesium lid reinforcement to compensate the CFRP flex?
I guess what I want to ask is whether the 14.1" is tougher or the 15.1/15.4"

Thanks,

As a very long time ThinkPad T series user, I have the following comments to share. This based on my personal ownership experience with both the 14" and 15" sizes. With both Flexview and non Flexview displays on the 15" size.

The Title of this thread is Magnesium Composite vs CFRP.

Let me explain the basics of these materials.
Both are composite materials designed for light weight and structural rigidity. Both are equally strong and well suited to their respective applications.

In one case, Magnesium Composite, as the name suggests the material contains Magnesium in the composition of the material.

In the other case, it's CFRP which is Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic. Do not let the use of the word "plastic" fool you into thinking that it's any less as strong or robust as the Magnesium Composite material.

1) All ThinkPads are engineered to be very robust and durable. Therefore I would not call one or the other "Better" or "Stronger" than the rest. Just different.

2) These are proven laptops with strength, durability and reliability at the forefront of considerations in construction.

3) The "slightly thinner" profile of the 14" size is due to the fact that it is less prone to flex simply because of the smaller size. So the material used was chosen accordingly, and the magnesium just happens to provide the needed strength while being just a bit thinner, as is the CFRP case material on the bottom. So it's a combinatoin of factors which allow this model to be thinner. It's not all in the lid or cover if you will.

4) The CFRP is the material of choice for the 15" models because it easily provides the structural strength required while being a bit thicker in cross section while still maintaining light weight.

So, I rate these as equals despite the slight differences in materials.

Finally both the 14" and 15" T series have a rubberized coating on the top surface of the lid or cover. All T series have had that rubberized coating as a signature of the T series line. This has been true for a number of years.

This also holds true for the X60 series, which shares that same rubberized surface on the lid. In this model the entire case is made of all Magnesium Alloy.

The only textured, (non-rubberized) plain covers are those of the R series and Z series.

Cheers...

[primedude]

CFRP is the main structural element in Boeing's upcoming 787 airliner, so yeah, it's definitely not the kind of plastic that might come to mine upon hearing that word.

[archer6]

CFRP is the main structural element in Boeing's upcoming 787 airliner, so yeah, it's definitely not the kind of plastic that might come to mine upon hearing that word.

Excellent Point! CFRP is one of the best of the best composites which contain carbon fiber.

[Ragtopgeek]

Archer6,
Thanks for the great info. If anyone can attest to the build quality and exquisite function of Thinkpads, it's you with your amazing collection and usage history. May I take the liberty to ask you to state your top 3 favorites and a blurb or two why?
Thanks, Ragtopgeek.

[archer6]

Archer6,
Thanks for the great info. If anyone can attest to the build quality and exquisite function of Thinkpads, it's you with your amazing collection and usage history. May I take the liberty to ask you to state your top 3 favorites and a blurb or two why?
Thanks, Ragtopgeek.

Sure I'd be happy to,

I'm glad you asked for the top 3, as beyond that it's impossible. They are all so nice. So here it is in no particular order. I rate them equally in terms of build quality, functionality and usefulness.

1) T60p 15" IPS Flexview, maxed out on ram and , 7200 rpm 100GB HD. Then I have another identical HD in the Ultra Slim Bay. This is an amazing work station class machine. I push this one to the max, as I do some very resource intensive computing which taxes (not overtaxes) it's speed, and responsiveness. This is a machine that one would not need unless you are doing some very complex work. It amazes me what I can do on this and that I can use it in place of a desktop. I am very involved in 3D design as well as other scientific work and this ThinkPad is up to the task and actually makes it enjoyable.

2) T60 15" IPS Flexview, 2GB Ram, 7200rpm 100GB HD. Second battery in the Ultra Bay Slim. This is the computer that I use for general work and find it a very comfortable machine to use. As with all ThinkPads it's about the keyboard, the display, track point and touch pad, just for starters. The interface between the user and the computer is such an exemplary experience when one has a new ThinkPad. Which brings to mind, the fact that when carefully taken care of my older ThinkPads feel as good as they did new. Very true. In fact I get teased as I take such good care of them they all look like new. They all have their unique characteristics.

3) X60s 12" Display, Ultralight, ultra thin with a real world weight of just 2.51lbs as weighed on an industrial scale with the regular 4 cell battery. Since I have large hands I really appreciate the large keyboard. When switching from a T60 series after just five minutes I'm typing as fast as ever. The perfect slim and flat computer to fit in any bag. I use a Waterfield sleeve to protect it, then I can put it in any bag I want. This ThinkPad like the others just exudes quality. It also has the rubberized finish on the top cover (like the T series) and it provides a nice secure handhold for moving the computer about.

A final word about durability and reliability. I must admit that I'm addicted to having a lot of choices when it comes to very nice high end computer cases. Believe me it has paid off over the years. I have nearly every case available as I'm always updating my inventory. A very worthwhile investment.

Notably, in all the years I've used ThinkPads daily I have had only one hardware failure. My T42 had a bad hard drive that became apparent during the 4th month of ownership. I called IBM (prior to Lenovo days) and they sent a special shipping box, which arrived the next day via FedEX at 10am. I immediately packed it up and drove to the depot at the airport. IBM recieved the computer then next morning by 10am, replaced the drive, tested it and included the documentation as proof of testing, packed it and beyond my wildest expectations it was delivered to me the very next day by 10am! Not a fingerprint on it, just as new.

If I sound enthused and a big advocate of the ThinkPad lineup it's because I am. I have enjoyed nothing but stellar performance when it counted the most. My work is mission critical and I could not be more satisfied.

Cheers.....

[jbrown]

thanks archer6 for all that useful information

people who own a T60, do you like the rubberized paint? is it resistant or it tends to wear out easily?

[archer6]

thanks archer6 for all that useful information

people who own a T60, do you like the rubberized paint? is it resistant or it tends to wear out easily?

You are quite welcome!

Just my personal opinion regarding the rubberized paint. Of the massive number of T series I have owned, the rubberized paint has always been very consistent.

However that said, I have noticed on the new 60 series is seems to be a bit softer and rub off on the very corners of the display. However the amount is very, very small and the cover color below matches exactly so I'm sure that those out there that are less picky than I, have not noticed it. Also once this begins, it does NOT get any worse. A small amount of the surface coating has worn off mine (less than the size of a pencil eraser head) and then it stopped, and has remained the same since.

I have never, ever had this happen even on my first T20. So, I'm not sure what this is attributed to as the appearance of the remaining surface is ablsolutely identical to the rest of my ThinkPads. In addition, I would not be quick to blame Lenovo, as many have here for any problem they have experienced.

Lenovo Quality? Every bit as good as when IBM had the division, and Lenovo was building ThinkPads for IBM.

In fact this was one of the very reasons that I have purchased no fewer than 6 new ThinkPads since the IBM/Lenovo transition. Just to see if there were any changes or compromises and I can personally assure you there are not.

I still love the rubberized finish as it gives you a very good grip when moving the computer and thereby an additional margin of safety against dropping it.

Cheers...

[primedude]

However that said, I have noticed on the new 60 series is seems to be a bit softer and rub off on the very corners of the display. However the amount is very, very small and the cover color below matches exactly so I'm sure that those out there that are less picky than I, have not noticed it. Also once this begins, it does NOT get any worse. A small amount of the surface coating has worn off mine (less than the size of a pencil eraser head) and then it stopped, and has remained the same since.

Meanwhile, on my T42, I had the exact same type of wear. I'm a little surprised that your description corresponds so precisely to my experience, but that's it exactly.

So, at least in my experience, it's not a problem isolated to the T60. I haven't noticed it on this one yet, but perhaps I should give it more than a week.

[z_24]

I got one quick question.
How do you remove fingerprints on the lid? My fingers get sweaty sometimes, and after touching the lid there's appears to be a dark spot on that location.
Thanks

[archer6]

I got one quick question.
How do you remove fingerprints on the lid? My fingers get sweaty sometimes, and after touching the lid there's appears to be a dark spot on that location.
Thanks

Sure no problem:

Please follow these directions exactly and you will be very happy with the result.

1) Go to your local auto parts and buy micro-fiber cloths
2) Go to the hardware store and buy a gallon of denatured alcohol. It's cheap and has many uses.

How to clean your ThinkPad, using 2 cloths.

1) Use HOT tap water on one microfiber cloth, ring it out just a bit so the water is not dripping off.

2) Open up the display and carefully rub the moist cloth on the display. It will remove all fingerprints, dust etc. Then use a dry cloth to dry the display.

3) Close the display and repeat on the cover to remove dust fingerprints etc.

This is where you may be left with some residual fingerprints - on the lid. Thus the denatured alcohol.

4) Use a fresh microfiber cloth. Soak it with denatured alcohol, and wring it out. Then lightly scrub the top of the rubberized finish with the dampened cloth. Then dry with another clean microfiber cloth. This will positively remove any stains.

If not, feel free to scrub a bit harder as sometimes it just takes a bit of extra pressure. Be sure your cloth has plenty of denatured alcohol on it, as it evaporates quickly and the only way to scratch the lid is with a dry cloth and too much pressure. Think: Lift the stain.

Note: denatured alcohol will not damage, harm or leave any residue on any type of surface. Unlike regular rubbing alcohol. I use it to clean anything that is delicate.

I have used this method once a month for 8 years of cleaning my ThinkPads and they look as good as new.

Cheers....

[axiom]

I got one quick question.
How do you remove fingerprints on the lid? My fingers get sweaty sometimes, and after touching the lid there's appears to be a dark spot on that location.
Thanks

I am sure anchor6's cleaning method is ideal, but I still want to share mine.
1. spot the dirty parts
2. stick your tongue out
3. put your finger in front of your mouth, then lick it with your tongue
4. use your wet finger to rub off dirty part that you just identitied
5. wait for the laptop to dry

repeat step 3 and 4 until all the dirty spots are gone.

This is what I did last night, and it clean surprisingly well.
and 1 amazing thing I noticed is that, the rubberized surface dries off so quickly, within 10seconds, it's all dried up.

[archer6]

I am sure anchor6's cleaning method is ideal, but I still want to share mine.
1. spot the dirty parts
2. stick your tongue out

axiom, thanks for a thousand laughs (at myself). Here I am giving this precise (typical for me) proven method to clean a ThinkPad, and all the while my friends and family love to tease and laugh at me and my "perfectionist " like tendencies.

Then you come along with this "method" which is filled with fun and humor....

I commend you! Thanks again for the laughs.... priceless!

Cheers....

[axiom]

Now I come think of it
If CFRP is tougher, than why isn't the RollCage made out of CFRP but magnesium alloy instead?
Using CFRP can potentially reduce the size a bit further assuming CFRP is tougher

[o1001010]

both my t42 15" and t60 14" have rubberized coating. my r60 does not.

lenovo only made the thinkpad better in my opinion. the rollcage and the drain holes are such a significant modification that it earned my applause,

[archer6]

Now I come think of it
If CFRP is tougher, than why isn't the RollCage made out of CFRP but magnesium alloy instead?
Using CFRP can potentially reduce the size a bit further assuming CFRP is tougher

You bring up a very good point. Here is the anwser:

The Roll Cage is much easier to fabricate out of magnesium allow, which is plenty strong for that application. It's also less costly with no compromise in it's intended goal.

Cheers...

[archer6]

both my t42 15" and t60 14" have rubberized coating. my r60 does not.

lenovo only made the thinkpad better in my opinion. the rollcage and the drain holes are such a significant modification that it earned my applause,

You bring up some great points here.

I really like the rubberized coating of my T series ThinkPads, and could not get by without the performance and reliability they provide for my daily work.
It's an absolute must for me to have max ram, large fast hd, speedy processor, and a high res 15" 1600x1200 display.

I actually bought my R51 just for those times when I wanted to be able to relax and just toss a ThinkPad into my backpack on the weekends. Also I wanted to see just what the bottom of the line ThinkPad would be like, the least expensive R model I could find. I've found the textured plastic finish of the R series is very durable, scratch resistant, and if one is as picky...and sick as I the plastic case is perfect. Incredibly tough.

Frankly another reason I bought an R51 for occasional use, is that I have never, ever, spent just $615 (total) on a laptop!

I _always_ use top of the line, expensive, bleeding edge T60p ThinkPads for the resource, heavy duty, mission critical computing I do. I use a ThinkPad T60p every day as my main work computer. Thus, it was actually quite fun to buy the _least_ expensive model just to see what it's like. Of course I could not help myself and immediately installed a total of 1GM ram, but other than that, no mods. It's even a Celeron processor (which I've never tried) and I'm shocked at how good it is: _for what it is_.

Funny how it goes, I actually look forward to using this R model on the weekends just for the fun of it. It's perfect for my organizational work in Outlook, surfing the web and staying in touch via email. I now find myself using it much more than I ever anticipated. The build quality is exemplary, the keyboard just as great as every other ThinkPad keyboard. A very nice, evenly lit bright display. Overall, an extremely nice machine!

As usual the memory upgrade made a world of difference in the speed. A Celeron that thinks it's a Pentium.... wonders never cease!

For those of you on a budget, I would highly suggest an R model, especially the new R 60 models. I bought my R51 just 2 months before the R60's came out. The improvements in the 60 series are very well worthwhile.

Cheers....

[axiom]

....
I really like the rubberized coating of my T series ThinkPads,
...

Since you mention about the rubberized coating, I think of another potential intended use of it.

It's to let you use it as a paper pad underneath.
You know when you write on a single sheet of paper on your solid wood desk, you feel how uncomfortable your pen tip moves across the paper. This rubberized coating let you use your ThinkPad lid as a paper pad to write on top of it without that problem, and your paper doesn't slide away either.
After all, every existence of an object or feature on a ThinkPad is justified.