LCDs on T60/T60p - types, availability and other discussions

T60/T61 series specific matters only
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Kyocera
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LCDs on T60/T60p - types, availability and other discussions

#1 Post by Kyocera » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:45 pm

This thread is for people who want to know about the different LCD panels (and their resolutions) used in the T60 series, the availability of these panels in various T60/T60p models as of 10-Apr-2007 and the current status of these panels (including the official news from Lenovo). This discussion includes both widescreen and non-widescreen T60s.

Different LCD panels available from Lenovo for the T60/T60p:
Lenovo provides the following screen resolutions in the T60 series:

Non-widescreen models:
1. XGA (1024*768) - available in 14"/15" T60, T60p
2. SXGA+ (1400*1050) - available in 14"/15" T60, T60p
3. UXGA (1600 * 1200) - available in 15" T60p

Widescreen Models:
1. WXGA (1200*800) - available in 15" widescreen T60, T60p
2. WSXGA+ (1680×1050) - available in 15" widescreen T60, T60p

Please note that the widescreen T60/T60p does not come in 14" size as of 10-APR-2007. There is speculation that we might see 14" widescreens after the santa rosa refresh.

Only the regular (i.e. non widescreen) 15" T60/T60p have the option of an IPS screen. IPS stands for In-Plane Switching, and is a type of LCD technology which results in superior quality displays with excellent color reproduction and wide viewing angles (both horizontal and vertical). Lenovo's brand name for its IPS displays is Flexview . More information on IPS can be found in Wikipedia. IPS screens are available only in the SXGA+ or the UXGA resolutions (typically with X1400 or the FireGl cards only). Please note that IPS screens were never ever available in 14" models, in any previous/current T-series thinkpads.

The regular 14" models (both XGA or SXGA+ resolutions), the regular 15" XGA models and the widescreen T60/T60p (both WXGA or WSXGA+ resolutions) laptops DO NOT come with an IPS LCDs. They come with LCDs made with a different technology called TN (Twisted nematic). More information is available on wikipedia.

Current Status of IPS:


Lenovo is phasing out the IPS display from its laptops. This was recently clarified in a post from Matt Kahout on Lenovoblogs. The main reason for discontinuing IPS was that Lenovo was not able to find a steady supplier (of IPS panels ) who could meet the qulity requirements from Lenovo. Below is a quote from the article:
Quote:
There was only one supplier of IPS panels that was able to produce to our quality specifications. However, that supplier was unable to consistently deliver. We were not meeting the demand and were falling farther and farther behind. Thus we had to drop it. Incidentally, this same situation explains a lot of the X60 Tablet SXGA+ supply problem as well. 12 inch SXGA+ panels are pretty hard to come by.

While there are a lot of speculations as to other reasons (such as manufacturers moving into more mainstream markets like LCD HDTVs, bigger widescreen desktop monitors, more and more widescreen laptops being used by business etc), the above quoted reason is the official one from Lenovo.

Currently, it is not possible to place an online order for a laptop with an IPS display (SXGA+ or UXGA). However, there are a few models available for purchase if you call and talk to an IBM sales representative. Depending on availability, you may or may not get one. It is possible to swap the SXGA+ panel on a T60p with a UXGA panel bought elsewhere (from IBM, ebay etc). Older UXGA panels (from T43, A31p etc) will NOT fit in the T60/T60p. While not impossible, doing this swap is not easy; it will involve removing the entire LCD assembly from the base and significant work with the LCD assembly itself. Also note that doing such a swap might void your warranty. Anyone doing this does it at thier own risk.

For any further information on the T60/T60p, please refer to the
1. tabook.pdf - for model information.
2. T60 hardware maintenence manual - for detailed information regarding T60.

Thanks to gator for putting this together!
Last edited by Kyocera on Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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#2 Post by dsalyers » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:48 pm

Maybe I am wrong, but there is a minor typo in the above:
WSXGA+ = 1680x1050

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#3 Post by Kyocera » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:53 pm

Fixed, thanks.

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Re: LCDs on T60/T60p - types, availability and other discuss

#4 Post by Bing0 » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:28 pm

Kyocera wrote: <<SNIPPET>>
It is possible to swap the SXGA+ panel on a T60p with a UXGA panel bought elsewhere (from IBM, ebay etc). Older UXGA panels (from T43, A31p etc) will NOT fit in the T60/T60p. While not impossible, doing this swap is not easy; it will involve removing the entire LCD assembly from the base and significant work with the LCD assembly itself. Also note that doing such a swap might void your warranty. Anyone doing this does it at thier own risk.
If any of you folks have done this swap, I would be keenly interested to hear of your experience and how it has worked out for you.
I have personally changed lcd displays on laptops before and I am considering this as an avenue for obtaining the T60P that is configured the way I would want it to be.
Bing0

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#5 Post by Puppy » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:40 am

As for 14" SXGA+ panels quality. It is true that they're sub-average but to be fair who else actually have notebooks with 14" SXGA+ these days ? Dell seems to offer 14" widescreens only (Dell always had horrible screens anyway). I found Toshiba M5 only.

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#6 Post by jlingo » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:14 am

Ok now that the Flexview is a rare stuff.
What is the next best thing?
Hydis Vs Samsung Vs TMD
?
I'm going to check out at the yesterday's store again to see the possible screen brand the thinkpad has. The screen was pretty bad non-uniform backlight gradient.

For T60 there are three 14" SXGA+ vendors (Hydis, Samsung and TMD):
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 62784.html

For T43 there are two vendors (Hydis and Samsung)
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 58431.html

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#7 Post by ryengineer » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:38 am

Kyocera, :Nice:
"I've come a long, long way," she said, "and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me from my horse, and leads me to a bar."
The man who took her off her steed, and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary-eyed Surveyor and a DRUNKEN ENGINEER.

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#8 Post by Puppy » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:45 am

jlingo wrote:Ok now that the Flexview is a rare stuff.
What is the next best thing?
The right answer to this question is "nothing" :( Everything else is much worse. I'd guess Samsung might be a bit better but still looks horrible comparing to current TN LCD monitor panels.

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#9 Post by Hanson » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:16 am

Just noticed that on the Lenovo US site, they are selling the T60 2623DDU model for US$1899 (From $2499). You can find this by going to Lenovo Outlet within the Lenovo website.
Last edited by Hanson on Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#10 Post by pianowizard » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:51 am

Hanson wrote:Just noticed that on the Lenovo US site, they are selling the T60 2623DDU model for US$1899 (From $2499).
That's a GREAT find! There are the specs:

T2500(2GHz), 1GB RAM, 100GB 7200rpm HD, 15in 1600x1200 LCD, 256MB ATI FireGL V5200, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11abg wireless, WWAN, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 9c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

Grab it quickly! The fact that it takes them "1-2 weeks" to ship this might imply there aren't that many left.
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#11 Post by mizzle » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:14 am

Hanson wrote:
Just noticed that on the Lenovo US site, they are selling the T60 2623DDU model for US$1899 (From $2499).


That's a GREAT find! There are the specs:

T2500(2GHz), 1GB RAM, 100GB 7200rpm HD, 15in 1600x1200 LCD, 256MB ATI FireGL V5200, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11abg wireless, WWAN, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 9c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

Grab it quickly! The fact that it takes them "1-2 weeks" to ship this might imply there aren't that many left.
Just placed an order for the T60p from the Outlet. I currently have a T42p with 15" IPS and loving it.

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#12 Post by Troels » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:21 am

How long is the base warranty?
And do lenovo ship overseas?

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#13 Post by Troels » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:42 am

Arghh.. no they don't :cry:
Will anyone want to resell me one from lenovo?

I SO much want a T60p

There are never any clearouts over here. :roll:

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#14 Post by taob » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:54 am

pianowizard wrote:T2500(2GHz), 1GB RAM, 100GB 7200rpm HD, 15in 1600x1200 LCD, 256MB ATI FireGL V5200, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11abg wireless, WWAN, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 9c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro
Oh my... and that's the FlexView screen too?
- Brian
2004: 2371-8EU X40, 1.2 GHz Pentium M, 1 GB, 40 GB, 802.11b/g, 2 x 8-cell
2007: 2623-DDU T60p, 2.0 GHz T2500, 2 GB, 200GB 7200 rpm, 802.11a/b/g, BT, 3 x 9-cell, 15" UXGA FlexView, Adv Mini Dock
2011: 4286-CTO X220, 2.5 GHz i5-2520M, 8 GB, 60GB SSD, 250GB HD

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#15 Post by taob » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:14 pm

[censored]... they won't ship to Canada! Anyone want to order one for me and ship it up to Toronto? :D

(yes yes, I know I just bought a new T60... but I want the 1600x1200 FlexView!)
- Brian
2004: 2371-8EU X40, 1.2 GHz Pentium M, 1 GB, 40 GB, 802.11b/g, 2 x 8-cell
2007: 2623-DDU T60p, 2.0 GHz T2500, 2 GB, 200GB 7200 rpm, 802.11a/b/g, BT, 3 x 9-cell, 15" UXGA FlexView, Adv Mini Dock
2011: 4286-CTO X220, 2.5 GHz i5-2520M, 8 GB, 60GB SSD, 250GB HD

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#16 Post by taob » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:23 pm

Oh wait... that's a Core Duo CPU, not the Core 2 Duo. Anyone know if the socket/BIOS/chipset on the 2623DDU supports upgrading the CPU to a C2D?
- Brian
2004: 2371-8EU X40, 1.2 GHz Pentium M, 1 GB, 40 GB, 802.11b/g, 2 x 8-cell
2007: 2623-DDU T60p, 2.0 GHz T2500, 2 GB, 200GB 7200 rpm, 802.11a/b/g, BT, 3 x 9-cell, 15" UXGA FlexView, Adv Mini Dock
2011: 4286-CTO X220, 2.5 GHz i5-2520M, 8 GB, 60GB SSD, 250GB HD

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#17 Post by ryengineer » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:40 pm

taob wrote:Oh wait... that's a Core Duo CPU, not the Core 2 Duo. Anyone know if the socket/BIOS/chipset on the 2623DDU supports upgrading the CPU to a C2D?
Yes, it supports it and you can look into the forum for more upgrading info by search feature, I remember some very good thread about it.
"I've come a long, long way," she said, "and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me from my horse, and leads me to a bar."
The man who took her off her steed, and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary-eyed Surveyor and a DRUNKEN ENGINEER.

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#18 Post by Bing0 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:44 pm

Troels wrote:How long is the base warranty?
And do lenovo ship overseas?
I just ordered mine.
Base warranty is 3yrs. depot warranty

Wow...a temporary wireless problem prevented me from making an expensive alternative decision on eBay. I was about to pay more for a machine with a lot less than this one.

Often times what we think is bad luck is actually God smiling on us.

peace,
Bing0

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#19 Post by Bing0 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:53 pm

Troels wrote:Arghh.. no they don't :cry:
Will anyone want to resell me one from lenovo?

I SO much want a T60p

There are never any clearouts over here. :roll:
if you are serious, I might do it for $1975.00 payment in advance.
you pay shipping and I make about $100.00 USD.

This is not really even worth the trouble from a profit point of view but I can imagine how I would feel if I were in your shoes.

My cost is just a little less than the sale price.

Actually, if you were in the US, no sales tax would make this a better deal than the web sale price. I don't know how this point fares with Canadian tax rules.

I just realized that this post might be against the rules. If so, please advise and I will edit it's content. (edited)

Regards,
Bing0

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#20 Post by taob » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:04 pm

ryengineer wrote:Yes, it supports it and you can look into the forum for more upgrading info by search feature, I remember some very good thread about it.
Thanks! I do remember a thread about CPU upgrades, but I wasn't sure if it only applied to certain motherboards or BIOS revisions or socket types (e.g., PGA vs BGA), and if the 2623DDU would qualify. I'll go have a closer look at those threads.
- Brian
2004: 2371-8EU X40, 1.2 GHz Pentium M, 1 GB, 40 GB, 802.11b/g, 2 x 8-cell
2007: 2623-DDU T60p, 2.0 GHz T2500, 2 GB, 200GB 7200 rpm, 802.11a/b/g, BT, 3 x 9-cell, 15" UXGA FlexView, Adv Mini Dock
2011: 4286-CTO X220, 2.5 GHz i5-2520M, 8 GB, 60GB SSD, 250GB HD

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#21 Post by Hanson » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:27 pm

taob wrote:(yes yes, I know I just bought a new T60... but I want the 1600x1200 FlexView!)
If you do decide to get the 1600x1200 Flexview, I am willing to consider taking the 2623K8U off your hands for a discounted price of course :wink:
taob wrote:Thanks! I do remember a thread about CPU upgrades, but I wasn't sure if it only applied to certain motherboards or BIOS revisions or socket types (e.g., PGA vs BGA), and if the 2623DDU would qualify. I'll go have a closer look at those threads.
And just to assert some pressure on you while you do some research, the laptop availability on the site is dwindling down as other people purchase them. :twisted:
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#22 Post by taob » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:31 pm

Hanson wrote:And just to assert some pressure on you while you do some research, the laptop availability on the site is dwindling down as other people purchase them. :twisted:
Don't worry, I already e-mailed a friend in Colorado to help me place the order while I do the research. :lol:
- Brian
2004: 2371-8EU X40, 1.2 GHz Pentium M, 1 GB, 40 GB, 802.11b/g, 2 x 8-cell
2007: 2623-DDU T60p, 2.0 GHz T2500, 2 GB, 200GB 7200 rpm, 802.11a/b/g, BT, 3 x 9-cell, 15" UXGA FlexView, Adv Mini Dock
2011: 4286-CTO X220, 2.5 GHz i5-2520M, 8 GB, 60GB SSD, 250GB HD

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#23 Post by gator » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:44 pm

Hanson wrote:Just noticed that on the Lenovo US site, they are selling the T60 2623DDU model for US$1899 (From $2499). You can find this by going to Lenovo Outlet within the Lenovo website.
This is a FANTASTICdeal. I wish I can sell my SXGA+ T60 and buy this.
Now: T60 2613-EKU | T23 2647-9NU | 600X 2645-9FU | HP 100LX
Past: X31 2673-Y13 | T41 2374-3HU | T22 2647-AEU


Rules of the road :thumbs-UP:

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#24 Post by Bing0 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:22 pm

Hanson wrote:Just noticed that on the Lenovo US site, they are selling the T60 2623DDU model for US$1899 (From $2499). You can find this by going to Lenovo Outlet within the Lenovo website.
I for one, am extermely grateful that you posted this....

Thanks,
Bing0

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#25 Post by pianowizard » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:30 pm

Hey, I just remember one thing: Get this UXGA T60 through usa.visa.com/personal with your Visa Card to get it for $1,804.05! For those of you who've already ordered it at $1899, I hope you can cancel it and reorder.
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#26 Post by Troels » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:08 pm

pianowizard wrote:Hey, I just remember one thing: Get this UXGA T60 through usa.visa.com/personal with your Visa Card to get it for $1,804.05! For those of you who've already ordered it at $1899, I hope you can cancel it and reorder.
The world is even more unfair now. On the visa page they state:

"Shipping outside the continental United States is extra." But i bet that still doesn't mean international orders.

Off to find a bridge i can jump from :(
Is anyone in the US whom is not a reseller/under contracts with a Visa willing to buy one for me, and ship it over the "pond"?

I'm unsure if this is allowed or not. I have a Visa card, it's just of no use there now. Anyways... this post would better fit in the Marketplace forums.

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#27 Post by Hanson » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:28 pm

pianowizard wrote:Hey, I just remember one thing: Get this UXGA T60 through usa.visa.com/personal with your Visa Card to get it for $1,804.05! For those of you who've already ordered it at $1899, I hope you can cancel it and reorder.
OR instead of using Visa, you can use FatWallet to get upto 5% back and enroll your AMEX card into the TailorMade program free to get an additional 15% off for a total of 20% discount off $1899. For more details on this, go to www.slickdeals.net and search for "Lenovo" in the forums.
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#28 Post by pianowizard » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:44 pm

Hanson wrote:you can use FatWallet to get upto 5% back and enroll your AMEX card into the TailorMade program free to get an additional 15% off for a total of 20% discount off $1899.
Thanks for the tip.

When I logged onto Lenovo through my alma mater's site, I found the same T60 and it's also $1804.05, and it said 119 units are still available. So, I guess that should last for at least a week?
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#29 Post by chrisnyc » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:15 pm

Does it really make sense at this date -- the 2623DDU was released over a year ago and is being discontinued, has Windows XP not Vista, etc -- to order one of these?

I do really like the 4:3 screen shape -- don't like widescreen, as well as the Flexview screen, this one UXGA and not available on just about any other notebooks ; but still, the idea of buying this when the current notebooks have Windows Vista, a newer processor, etc, seems a stretch to me.

Others thoughts and comments on this appreciated.

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#30 Post by pianowizard » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:58 pm

chrisnyc wrote:Does it really make sense at this date -- the 2623DDU was released over a year ago and is being discontinued
Yeah, that's why it's only $1800 (through Visa) rather than $2500.
chrisnyc wrote:but still, the idea of buying this when the current notebooks have Windows Vista
Vista still has lots of problems, as many forum members have reported. Many users still prefer XP Pro. In fact, Lenovo currently charges $30 more for XP Pro than for Vista Home Premium. Also, for the great majority of people, there is no real-life difference between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo (or even between Pentium M and Core 2 Duo for that matter). But for many people, 15" UXGA Flexview is miles better than any of the currently available LCDs (of any brand, not only Thinkpads). If you think of it this way, $1,800 plus tax is totally worth it.
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