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LCDs on T60/T60p - types, availability and other discussions

T60/T61 series specific matters only
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ment2b
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#91 Post by ment2b » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:46 pm

Thanks for the response ted. I didn't know about the bios setting. Catalyst is the T60 ATI Radeon video card X1300's Control Center. My model is the 2007-49U, Win XP, SP2. Resolution set at 1400X1050, 16 bit. (default)

Brightness isn't as much as a problem as the contrast, I think. The screen is just very "washed out" looking. Brightness all the way up is about the same as the T23's set at 3 steps below max. The T23 is just so vivid by comparison. I'll take pics tomorow and post them so it makes some sense.

Is it safe to say that you're happy with the T60's display compared to YOUR T23 ?
T23 PIII 1.13, T60 2400 14.1

Ted_E
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#92 Post by Ted_E » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:56 pm

ment2b wrote:Thanks for the response ted. I didn't know about the bios setting. Catalyst is the T60 ATI Radeon video card X1300's Control Center. My model is the 2007-49U, Win XP, SP2. Resolution set at 1400X1050, 16 bit. (default)

Brightness isn't as much as a problem as the contrast, I think. The screen is just very "washed out" looking. Brightness all the way up is about the same as the T23's set at 3 steps below max. The T23 is just so vivid by comparison. I'll take pics tomorow and post them so it makes some sense.

Is it safe to say that you're happy with the T60's display compared to YOUR T23 ?
Yes. I also have win XP SP2 although I don't use it much. My video card is also the X1300, screen is 1400X1050, 16 bit. The eCS driver is a SciTech SNAP Graphics.

I am acquainted with three T23's so I'm pretty confident that what I'm seeing on mine is par for the breed. My T60 is hugely superior. In fact, when we travel by car my wife usually drives as she is very prone to car sickness so I get to play with nRoute and my GPS or fire up eCS and do some work. I never could do the later with the T23 but had no problem with the T60. I have reason to believe I have the flexview LCD. How does the brightness, contrast and colour vary with viewing angle compared to the T23?

BTW, somewhere on Lenovo's site I saw that 2007 indicates a Canadian model. Are you in Canada? I'm in SW BC.

I would send you a photo of my screen but I don't think they like attachments here.

Regards,
Ted
Ted E in Canada
T60, 2GHz, 1.5GB RAM, 250GB HD, IBM CD/DVD Multi Burner does DL, eCS 2.0 GA
very occasionally XP

T23, 1.2GHz, 512MB RAM, 40GB HD, IBM CD/DVD Multi Burner, eCS 1.2R
very occasionally W2K

ment2b
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#93 Post by ment2b » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:32 pm

Ted_E wrote: How does the brightness, contrast and colour vary with viewing angle compared to the T23?

BTW, somewhere on Lenovo's site I saw that 2007 indicates a Canadian model. Are you in Canada? I'm in SW BC.

I would send you a photo of my screen but I don't think they like attachments here.

Regards,
Ted
Ted...brightness, contrast and color virtually disappear at any viewing angle off center where the T-23 is great to up to about 60 degrees or more. You must have the Flexview/IPS screen if it's that good.

My paperwork on the 2007 is all U.S and I'm located in NY.

Edit: Ted, Lenovo site shows 2007 as being a "worlwide" model.
Also, your model # indicates a TFT Active display. No mention of a Flexview option. I know there are different suppliers of the 14.1 panel ,so that may be why we are seeing differences.
T23 PIII 1.13, T60 2400 14.1

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#94 Post by Ted_E » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:22 pm

]Edit:[/i] Ted, Lenovo site shows 2007 as being a "worlwide" model.
Also, your model # indicates a TFT Active display. No mention of a Flexview option. I know there are different suppliers of the 14.1 panel ,so that may be why we are seeing differences.[/quote]

Much searching of both IBM and Lenovo , Hardware Maintenance Manual, etc. and nowhere could I find anythink to say which machines had flexview. Someone (perhaps here on the Forums) said Lenovo had supplier problems and gave up on the 14.1" flexview. If so, I guess I just got lucky.

Ted
Ted E in Canada
T60, 2GHz, 1.5GB RAM, 250GB HD, IBM CD/DVD Multi Burner does DL, eCS 2.0 GA
very occasionally XP

T23, 1.2GHz, 512MB RAM, 40GB HD, IBM CD/DVD Multi Burner, eCS 1.2R
very occasionally W2K

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#95 Post by ryengineer » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Ted_E wrote:edit........Someone (perhaps here on the Forums) said Lenovo had supplier problems and gave up on the 14.1" flexview. If so, I guess I just got lucky.
There is never any T6x machine offered in 14.1 Flexview/IPS screen.
"I've come a long, long way," she said, "and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me from my horse, and leads me to a bar."
The man who took her off her steed, and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary-eyed Surveyor and a DRUNKEN ENGINEER.

ment2b
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#96 Post by ment2b » Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:40 pm

ryengineer wrote: There is never any T6x machine offered in 14.1 Flexview/IPS screen.
So then, is there that big a difference between the 14.1 screen suppiers quality ?
T23 PIII 1.13, T60 2400 14.1

Specialist
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#97 Post by Specialist » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:10 pm

Hello;
I am a new and confused member here. I loaned my wife my T43p with the flex view screen last year and now she put her name on it. I had a brain fart and purchased a Satellite for myself. It's not a bad machine but well, it's kind of girly. :cry:
I would really like to go with a nice decked out ThinkPad again. A T61p with the best screen resolution and graphics wise, 4gb Ram, 200gb 7200 HD, larger battery. I want it all!
From what I am reading the flex view screen on my old T43 is now a sought after item? Two years down the road and the technology is less? I clicked on the e coupon link above and it brought me to the Lenovo site last Tuesday. I customized out a T61p with a SUXGA screen. Going back tonight the SUXGA screen doesn’t come up? Maybe it's time for a Mac? I think I need a drink...Help!

burhan
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#98 Post by burhan » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:47 am

Sorry if this sounds a bit stupid -- but does the screen type / size chart on the first post also apply to T61p laptops, and the second question is ... is it possible to find a 'Flexview' 15.4" display that is compatible with the T61p.
Current: T530 | MacBook Pro 15" Lightbar | Dell XPS 15 9570
Previous: 13" MacBook Pro (Late 2009), Surface Pro 4, W550s, T61P, T43, T60, R50e

ryengineer
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#99 Post by ryengineer » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:37 pm

1. Below chart, Yes.
Non-widescreen models:
1. XGA (1024*768) - available in 14"/15" T60, T60p
2. SXGA+ (1400*1050) - available in 14"/15" T60, T60p
3. UXGA (1600 * 1200) - available in 15" T60p

Widescreen Models:
1. WXGA (1200*800) - available in 15" widescreen T60, T60p
2. WSXGA+ (1680×1050) - available in 15" widescreen T60, T60p
2. No.
"I've come a long, long way," she said, "and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me from my horse, and leads me to a bar."
The man who took her off her steed, and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary-eyed Surveyor and a DRUNKEN ENGINEER.

burhan
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#100 Post by burhan » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:45 pm

So, the highest resolution flexview screen available for T60 or T61 is the 15" UXGA, and no widescreen options at all.

So my old T40 which had a SXGA+ screen at 14" had flexview. Hmm...I guess to the untrained eye they all look the same :(

I'll have to see it in person on the T61p how bad it is; seems people are saying it looks awful.

Sorry, no questions -- just ranting.
Current: T530 | MacBook Pro 15" Lightbar | Dell XPS 15 9570
Previous: 13" MacBook Pro (Late 2009), Surface Pro 4, W550s, T61P, T43, T60, R50e

ryengineer
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#101 Post by ryengineer » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:53 pm

burhan wrote:So, the highest resolution flexview screen available for T60 or T61 is the 15" UXGA, and no widescreen options at all.....snip
The size and type holds true for T61/p.

T61p is being offered in 15.4 WUXGA, 15.4 WSXGA+ and 14.1 SXGA+, none of them comes with flexview.

T60 in 15'' SXGA+ and T60p in 15'' UXGA were the last T series offered with IPS.
"I've come a long, long way," she said, "and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me from my horse, and leads me to a bar."
The man who took her off her steed, and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary-eyed Surveyor and a DRUNKEN ENGINEER.

csy19
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#102 Post by csy19 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:10 am

Hi, I've just bought a T61 with 14.1 WXGA+ and the screen quality is much worse that I've expected. I mainly went for the look and the small size but for a GBP1300 machine, it is a huge disapointment and I'm kind of regreting. Should've bough a Macpro or something. Even the quatro NVS card is not for 3d works! Should have check it before I bought it....hmm. nothing I can do anymore.
However it seems possible to replace the lcd panel. Does anyone know a good LCD panel that I can replace my crappy one with?
Not having IPS is horrible but the colors are washed out a lot, and for graphic works that I do, it is impossible to tell with this screen the brightness and color of things that I'm looking at.
Appreciate your expert views!!!

kwanbis
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#103 Post by kwanbis » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:23 pm

I have a T60 with 1400x1050. I would like to change the screen to a a 1024x768 one, as the font size is too small. Not the screen resolution in windows/linux, but the whole LCD, for one that has native 1024x768 screen resolution. Any one did it?

Ted_E
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#104 Post by Ted_E » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:32 pm

kwanbis wrote:I have a T60 with 1400x1050. I would like to change the screen to a a 1024x768 one, as the font size is too small. Not the screen resolution in windows/linux, but the whole LCD, for one that has native 1024x768 screen resolution. Any one did it?
I also have a T60 with 1400x1050 and I find the font good but I'm running eCS and can set the overall desktop font to what I wish as well as individual applications. I don't know how to do that in windows but I'd be surprised if you couldn't do it.

FYI: I came to the T60 from a T23 and find that if I set the font size on the T60 to give the same size letters as on the T23, the printing is clearer and easier to read on the T60.

Ted
Ted E in Canada
T60, 2GHz, 1.5GB RAM, 250GB HD, IBM CD/DVD Multi Burner does DL, eCS 2.0 GA
very occasionally XP

T23, 1.2GHz, 512MB RAM, 40GB HD, IBM CD/DVD Multi Burner, eCS 1.2R
very occasionally W2K

DarkThinker
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#105 Post by DarkThinker » Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:01 pm

Guys I have a question, If I was to buy an LP150E05 SXGA+ to install in my 1953-D7U T60 in order to replace the XGA LCD, would I need a different inverter and cable? And if so, what are the part numbers?

Thanks
System:

ThinkPad X200
Fedora 11 Linux, 2GB RAM, C2D P8400 2.26GHz, 200GB HITACHI 7200 RPM HDD

Marin85
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#106 Post by Marin85 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:17 pm

Hi,
I have a little question: Are all 15 inch SXGA+ displays on T60p Flexview ones? I´m asking this becuase I´ve got a good deal on a T60p with T7600 and 15inch SXGA+ display (no widescreen), but I´m not sure if it´s a Flexview one (not mentioned in the offer).

Thanks

Marin

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risson
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How to change T60 default LCD

#107 Post by risson » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:42 pm

I have a T60 with the ATI Radeon x1300 video card. I happened break my screen that had a default resolution of 1024x768 (XGA). I purchased a new LCD screen SXGA+ that shoudl have a resolution of 1400x1050. When I attempt to update the video card driver it will only come up as 1024x768..

The screen pn# 42T0369

I'm wondering if anyone has experienced this problem and if they have found a way around it? Getting the ability to use the LCD screens fullest display resolution..

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Risson..
:?:

kamaleon
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#108 Post by kamaleon » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:44 am

Say folks, I know this has been asked before on this very same thread, but with no answer:

Does anyone know the difference between the two UXGA flexview panels available on the T60/T60p?

13N7076 - BOE-Hydis LCD panel, 15 inch UXGA FFS and the 13N7194 - BOE-Hydis LCD panel, 15 inch UXGA FFS (sRGB)

Another question, just to make sure, all flexviews on T60/p have only ever been made by BOE-Hydis right? No IDtech, TMD etc here?

TIA!
T60p 15" UXGA
X61t 1.8Ghz SXGA+ AIFF

Troels
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#109 Post by Troels » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:23 pm

No, also made by IDtech (UXGA) (last batches, but they are NOS) and LG-Philips SXGA+ i believe.

As to the difference i'm thinking that the 13N7194 covers the sRGB color space, but i can't know for sure.

This is a mysterious screen - i have never seen it offered for sale anywhere, i can't find the part no. for a sRGB screen from BOE-Hydis, and the FRU part number 13N7194 can't be ordered online from just a single IBM/Lenovo replacement part division.

Did this part ever exist?
Do you know where to get the 13N7194 screen, or know what BOE-Hydis calls this screen, Kamaleon?

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#110 Post by kamaleon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:27 am

Yeah right, I did a forum search with that part number and apparently no one has ever seen it either. Sounds mysterious indeed :lol:

Are you sure there were IDTech UXGA flexview screens for T60/p? They're not listed here:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 62806.html

just out of curiosity, would you know the FRU for those? (btw what does NOS mean?)
T60p 15" UXGA
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#111 Post by Troels » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:01 am

All those who ordered a 2623-DDU on the Lenovo outlet in April of '07 got an IDtech LCD (including me). Also, seems as if people has gotten IDtech LCDs earlier on, perhaps when BOE-Hydis could not keep up with demand.

NOS = New Old Stock, they're from late 2005/early 2006. Production stopped around that point also.

No, it's not listed there for some reason, the FRU is 42T0345 :)
I'm not sure about the LG Philips, but I recall that user WPWoodJr has a T60 or T60p with an LG-Philips SXGA+ flexview.

darn, it would be totally crazy if those 13N7194 LCDs were available somewhere. :shock:

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#112 Post by kamaleon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:39 am

Ok!

Yes, the SXGA+ flexview one was made by LG-Philips. This is the one that some users reported to have the infamous sparkle effect.

Do you know anything more about the IDtech one? Does it have anything to do with the older T4X IDTech ones (I mean is it the same panel with a different part number, adapted to the T60s)? Do you know how it compares with the BOE-Hydris? Do you know if it's more "modern" than the BOE-Hydris? Any clue on response times? I'm not a gamer but I watch a lot of satellite TV on my displays and I'm starting to believe I see a lot of ghosting on my PVA samsung syncmaster display which has a 25ms response time, so I'm wondering if a flexview would be any good for that.

Sorry bout all these questions :lol:
T60p 15" UXGA
X61t 1.8Ghz SXGA+ AIFF

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#113 Post by kamaleon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:47 am

Troels, nevermind about some of the questions I've just asked as I've just found this:
Troels wrote:The IDTech panels used in these last T60P UXGAs, were originally converted T43p screens, converted by Lenovo with a different cable.
The panels used in these machine has been from the absolutely last batch of UXGA Flexview - they're from January 2006.
The other questions, on the other hand, are still valid! :D
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#114 Post by Troels » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:38 am

Uhm well, the panel itself is the same, but since that the screens are determined by the EEPROM (EDID) on T6x series, the EEPROM on the IDtechs in T60ps were reprogrammed. The EDID contains information about the display resolution and certain timings. The T4x determined the resolution simply by different cables where some wires were cut to differ between UXGA and SXGA+.

The BOE-Hydis seems more modern because it features their patented AFFS technology with a 500:1 contrast ratio. The Idtech has 400:1. Response time is still equal to that of the IDtech.

However, people say that the colors of the BOE-Hydis is better than that of the IDtech. This is something which is objectively inccorect. They are very much alike, judging from the CIE measurements posted in the data sheets:

http://www.beck-oled-lcd-tft-display.de ... X1-101.pdf

and

http://www.idtech.co.jp/en/products/pdf ... U3-L06.pdf

Neither is close to covering the sRGB color space, which is why the most interesting thing would be the 13N7194.

If you see ghosting with the PVA, you'll see ghosting with all IPS/flexviews too. The IPS technology is pretty old - 10 years or so, which is relatively long compared to S-IPS or S-PVA which is most commonly used besides TN today.

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#115 Post by Troels » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:40 am

Completely unrelated to my reply above:

If BOE-Hydis was left alone and had enough money the roadmap containing a 14.1" AFFS SXGA+ 200 nits LCD could have been reality - see http://visiondisplay.co.kr/sub01/BOEHydis.pdf page 11.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

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#116 Post by kamaleon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:11 pm

quality post Troels. I'm impressed, you answered exactly all of my questions.

Actually, I'm not sure yet if the ghosting / motion blurr I experience is related to panel response times or codecs being used , so i'll have to give it a try.

btw, where does the term "flexview" come from? Is it something branded by IBM then Lenovo? Where there ever any other laptops / displays from other brands using the flexview term?
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#117 Post by Troels » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:44 pm

Some are really sensitive to unequal rise+fall response times, so that the symmetrical 30+30 ms of the flexview might seem less irritating.
Not sure if PVA is symmetrical.
Flexview is just a brand, which specify a wide viewing angle, high density display - which means IPS or the later AFFS.
No other used the flexview term, as they are not allowed to i think - but Asus had a few batches back in the day with IPS 15" SXGA+ screens, it was back at the time when displays weren't called VibrantView, Xblack, TrueView or whatever useless word for "glossy display" they want to use. :)
Only some batches of the Asus A6N or A6V or something similar had this, and it was just a draw of luck if one recieved one or not - point is; manufacturers other than IBM/Lenovo didn't do anything to advertise the screen being different from another.

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#118 Post by kamaleon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:45 pm

Interesting stuff, Troels. I believe it was actually some models of the V6 series from asus but I thought those were VA rather than IPS - but I might very well be wrong.
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#119 Post by Peak2Peak » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:26 pm

Do the UXGA IPS flexview panels (13N7076 & the hard to find / non-existent 13N7194) or other ThinkPad LCD's have firmware that the BIOS checks for compatibility? (like the WLAN/WWAN internal PCI-e cards - 1802 & 1804 error's) - therefore making them only to be supplied / available from Lenovo? (as opposed to the LCD manufacturer themselves)

If the BIOS does check the firmware for compatibility can the EEPROM (EDID) be re-prog?
T60F: (Integrated Intel GPU) - [Another T60 FrankenPad!...Different approach]
R60F: (Integrated Intel GPU) - [ThinkPad R60 15.0" FrankenPad]

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#120 Post by kamaleon » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:53 am

Well, I believe some people have installed LCDs (like the 15" QXGA or the 14" UXGA) that have not been branded by Lenovo so I suppose the answer to your question is no?
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