Thinkpads Forum

For a couple of days now I have left my new T60P WS sitting sealed in the box, in the corner of the room. The talk about the pending Santa Rosa release, Lenovo's tougher return policy, and the new rush to buy up the old Thinkpads (2623DDU) with the Flexview screen has scared me.

If I open that box will I be stuck with disappointment? Will the satisfaction that I had from my T42P purchase not be there? Will the screen disappoint me? Will I wish that I had waited for Santa Rosa? Would the 2623 DDU with a processor upgrade be the hot ticket?

I know that I am not the only one who has suffered with these questions. Opinions anyone? Even if there are no opinions offered up, maybe this opportunity for me to write the questions down will be what I needed to help make the right decision.

If you have T42P with FlexView screen I would guess you will be disappointed by the T60P widescreen. It depends on your preference of notebook features. Display and keyboard quality are most important features for me, so ThinkPad is no longer number one choice

I don't think the Santa Rosa release will be all that significant. In terms of pure performance, there will not be very many applications that will see an improvement in the extra 133Mhz FSB increase. The rest of the Santa Rosa platform doesn't seem significant enough to spend the extra money for an initial release (meh, new chipset with small improvements and new wireless card). As for the WS displays vs. the remaining IPS displays, the premium seems to be around 25-30%. I really wanted an IPS display, but the Amex Tailor made deal with EPP was too good to pass up.

If you wait untill Santa Rosa people will tell don't buy it wait for Santa Monica!!! so and so my advice enjoy you T60P

I have a T60p UXGA IPS (2623DDU) and a Z61p WUXGA. So, looking at them side by side the IPS display does look nicer. It is a little brighter and overall it looks sharper to me. However, I have no complaints major complaints about the LG screen used in my Z61p. It is still much better then the old Compaq and HPs I am used too.

Now in the Z series forum there have been many complaints about the Samsung screen, but just as many people say don't have an issue with them. So, I think the only way to know for sure is to open it up and look for your self.

As far as Santa Rosa is concerned. It will likely be about 2 months before you can get the next generation of Centrino, so it isn't that long of a wait. However, unless the following is needed for you, I wouldn't worry about it:

802.11n (Intel Wireless - already available in current models with Atheros)

support for 4GB+ ram

there are also many other features, that might provide some performance benefit, both I feel nothing as significant as those.

nxman wrote:If you wait untill Santa Rosa people will tell don't buy it wait for Santa Monica!!! so and so my advice enjoy you T60P

You have an excellent point.

By the time I had decided to settle for a T60p, not only could I not ge the IPS or UXGA models, but I couldn't get any 15" models at all. What's more, I was told I couldn't even get a 14.1" T60p, because they're being phased out! WHY?! I screamed.

I wasn't having a good week at all, and it only made it worse.

I've bought a T43 now, second hand, _very_ new. It's precious. I realise that I shouldn't've waited all that time.

All that's required is spending more time keeping up with the play, so you know when the deals are good for picking - before they're all gone.

My advice is enjoy the T60 in the box - savour its goodness - and then save for another one

Well, something new is being released nearly everyday and honestly one can't keep up with it. You are the best judge in making this decision, but I suggest you enjoy your T60p.

2 Bricks Short wrote:Will I wish that I had waited for Santa Rosa?

While I agree with evforme that Santa Rosa won't offer huge improvements over what we have now, I am concerned that the release might accelerate the depreciation of pre-Santa Rosa laptops. For example, new laptops normally lose about 40% of their value during the first year, but yours might lose say 50% instead. Also, my coworker just bought a 15.4" T60 and I must say it's one of the ugliest Thinkpads I've ever seen.

So, 2 Bricks Short, my vote is for keeping the T60p WS sealed in the box and returning it. Wait for a 14" WS T61 with Santa Rosa. But of course, you should also consider others' suggestions.

The screen is probably my biggest concern. The computer has enough horsepower without Santa Rosa (or Santa Monica) to run Autocad and Office. Those are the most demanding packages that I use.

I forgot to mention that I am using an Acer that I bought for a temp. It will not network with work (Vista). My T42 is down for the count for some unknown reason. I would hold off if it were absolutely the right thing to do but I may have to open the box soon like it or not.

I hate it when this happens! I must "man up" and make a decision!

2 Bricks Short wrote:I forgot to mention that I am using an Acer that I bought for a temp. It will not network with work (Vista).

Perhaps because it has a Home edition of Vista, which prevents you from joining a domain. In that case, there is really nothing wrong with the Acer machine itself. Just find a copy of XP Pro or Vista Business.

2 Bricks Short wrote:The screen is probably my biggest concern.

In such case the desicion is actually simple, return it. I also agree that 15" T widescreen does not look well. It is not failure of Lenovo designers. All widescreens (except 12" and smaller) looks bulky.

Puppy wrote:In such case the desicion is actually simple, return it.

2 Bricks Short, do you know whether your WS T60p has a Samsung or LG LCD? Puppy wouldn't be satisfied with either one, but most people here seem to be happy with the LG display whereas the Samsung one has received lots of complaints. Go to this page, enter the type # and the serial # (both shown on the box so you won't have to open it), and look for the part # for the LCD. Then, either go to the search box at the top right corner, or go to Google to find out whether that's a Samsung or an LG screen. If it's Samsung, then there would be one more reason to return it (in addition to what I mentioned earlier). If it's LG, then the probability that you'll like the screen goes up.

Puppy wrote:I also agree that 15" T widescreen does not look well. It is not failure of Lenovo designers. All widescreens (except 12" and smaller) looks bulky.

I have seen quite a few 15.4" laptops and think the Thinkpad is especially ugly. The MacBook Pro is the most beautiful.

pianowizard wrote:Also, my coworker just bought a 15.4" T60 and I must say it's one of the ugliest Thinkpads I've ever seen.

How so? The laptop in general or the LCD?

I have a T60p waiting for me at home and am trying not to form too much of an opinion until I see it.. (these quality-related posts are driving me crazy )

pianowizard wrote:do you know whether your WS T60p has a Samsung or LG LCD?

Good point. In any case I'd recommend to try to look on the display in a store before making the decision. The LG might be good among other TN panels but Bricks Short will have opportunity to compary it for side-by-side with FlexView which might be frustrating

idxman01 wrote:How so? The laptop in general or the LCD?

The laptop in general. Take a look at these photos comparing a 15.4" T60 with a 14.1" T43. Such a wide Thinkpad just doesn't look right, and I think the Dell Inspiron 1501 shown in the last few photos looks nicer.

pianowizard wrote:Such a wide Thinkpad just doesn't look right, and I think the Dell Inspiron 1501 shown in the last few photos looks nicer.

I don't think so. The Dell looks like a toy. Widescreen ThinkPad is just unusal, looks like a good old ThinkPad which needs a diet

Compare it with Asus for instance ....

Puppy wrote:Widescreen ThinkPad is just unusal, looks like a good old ThinkPad which needs a diet

It does look a bit odd next to a 4:3.. It might help if the keyboard was aligned with the LCD instead of having those huge landing strips on the side.

It looks like I may have recieved the LG screen.

13N7019 13N7020 15.4 INCH LCD DISPLAY FRU YES


I may not have been so fortunate with the keyboard.

39T0988 39T7118 KEYBOARD FRU YES

idxman01 wrote:It might help if the keyboard was aligned with the LCD instead of having those huge landing strips on the side.

This is general problem of widescreens. Bigger keyboard would need more vertical space as well so it wouldn't fit to 16:10 size ... I guess.

pianowizard wrote: The laptop in general. Take a look at these photos comparing a 15.4" T60 with a 14.1" T43. Such a wide Thinkpad just doesn't look right, and I think the Dell Inspiron 1501 shown in the last few photos looks nicer.

Strange as this might sound, I find myself nodding my head to your last comment - is that because we are so used to seeing a 15.4" dell inspiron around that it does look odd anymore? Just some food for thought ...

gator wrote:is that because we are so used to seeing a 15.4" dell inspiron around that it does look odd anymore?

That's part of it. But I also think that for such a massive laptop, it looks nicer to have multiple colors. The Dell has black, silver and white. The Thinkpad is all black, and like idxman01 pointed out, those "huge landing strips on the side" look especially weird. On the Dell, those parts of the machine look more interesting and are slightly better utilized (ventilation holes).

But this is of course a highly subjective opinion -- Puppy thinks colorful laptops look like toys -- and the OP doesn't seem to care about this aspect of the widescreen T60 at all.

About 2 weeks ago I ordered a 2623-CTO SXGA+ Flexview when I already owned a UXGA Flexview T42p. Once I hung-up the phone with the Lenovo Salesman I got a serious case of buyer's remorse, wondering why the heck I did that when I already owned a very nice T42p. Now after a week of using my new T60p, I couldn't be happier. Not only does the screen have better color rendering than my ID-Tech UXGA T42p, but the speedup due to the dual-core is much more than I envisioned (tough I do miss the UXGA higher resolution). The Atheros Card with my T60p also comes with N capability.

I guess it comes down to how important the screen is to you. Even coming from a higher-resolution UXGA Flexview screen, my current SXGA+ is even nicer.

pianowizard wrote:But I also think that for such a massive laptop, it looks nicer to have multiple colors. The Dell has black, silver and white.

Even my toshiba m55 handles the landing strips.. They're split silver/black with the right side containing a strip of buttons. (mainly for the integrated dvd player) Seems to fit well.

Pretty subjective stuff like you said. As long as my LCD looks ok I don't think I'm going to care much about the other stuff.

Ragtopgeek wrote:About 2 weeks ago I ordered a 2623-CTO SXGA+ Flexview when I already owned a UXGA Flexview T42p. Once I hung-up the phone with the Lenovo Salesman I got a serious case of buyer's remorse, wondering why the heck I did that when I already owned a very nice T42p. Now after a week of using my new T60p, I couldn't be happier. Not only does the screen have better color rendering than my ID-Tech UXGA T42p, but the speedup due to the dual-core is much more than I envisioned (tough I do miss the UXGA higher resolution). The Atheros Card with my T60p also comes with N capability.

I guess it comes down to how important the screen is to you. Even coming from a higher-resolution UXGA Flexview screen, my current SXGA+ is even nicer.

That sounds fair. From the comparisons i've seen, the ID-TECH IPS display was the worst of the IPS screens. Have you compared to a BOE-HYDIS or LG FV?

Ragtopgeek wrote:About 2 weeks ago I ordered a 2623-CTO SXGA+ Flexview when I already owned a UXGA Flexview T42p. Once I hung-up the phone with the Lenovo Salesman I got a serious case of buyer's remorse, wondering why the heck I did that when I already owned a very nice T42p. Now after a week of using my new T60p, I couldn't be happier. Not only does the screen have better color rendering than my ID-Tech UXGA T42p, but the speedup due to the dual-core is much more than I envisioned (tough I do miss the UXGA higher resolution). The Atheros Card with my T60p also comes with N capability.

I guess it comes down to how important the screen is to you. Even coming from a higher-resolution UXGA Flexview screen, my current SXGA+ is even nicer.

This one caused me to take the pocketknife out. One more post like this and I may not be able to stop myself from opening the box.

2 Bricks Short wrote:

Ragtopgeek wrote:About 2 weeks ago I ordered a 2623-CTO SXGA+ Flexview

This one caused me to take the pocketknife out. One more post like this and I may not be able to stop myself from opening the box.

The WS T60p you ordered doesn't have Flexview.

okashira wrote:

Ragtopgeek wrote:About 2 weeks ago I ordered a 2623-CTO SXGA+ Flexview when I already owned a UXGA Flexview T42p. Once I hung-up the phone with the Lenovo Salesman I got a serious case of buyer's remorse, wondering why the heck I did that when I already owned a very nice T42p. Now after a week of using my new T60p, I couldn't be happier. Not only does the screen have better color rendering than my ID-Tech UXGA T42p, but the speedup due to the dual-core is much more than I envisioned (tough I do miss the UXGA higher resolution). The Atheros Card with my T60p also comes with N capability.

I guess it comes down to how important the screen is to you. Even coming from a higher-resolution UXGA Flexview screen, my current SXGA+ is even nicer.

That sounds fair. From the comparisons i've seen, the ID-TECH IPS display was the worst of the IPS screens. Have you compared to a BOE-HYDIS or LG FV?

[censored], I can't read. He already answered my question. To reiterate pianowizard, the above poster was comparing 15" flexview to another 15" flexview, your 15.4" screen is not a flexview but a regular TN.

pianowizard wrote:

2 Bricks Short wrote: This one caused me to take the pocketknife out. One more post like this and I may not be able to stop myself from opening the box.

The WS T60p you ordered doesn't have Flexview.

I guess I was over excited and saw what I wanted to see. Rats!

okashira wrote:That sounds fair. From the comparisons i've seen, the ID-TECH IPS display was the worst of the IPS screens. Have you compared to a BOE-HYDIS or LG FV?

The problem is probably different default color temperature of these panels. IDTech has better coating (no visible sparkling/grainess) but colors looks more "cold" comparing to LG. Unfortunately Lenovo does not provide color profile files for displays. My LCD monitor with LG A-TW-IPS panel also have more "warm" colors in default profile.

In any case, all of them are still far better than TN craps

Puppy wrote:

okashira wrote:That sounds fair. From the comparisons i've seen, the ID-TECH IPS display was the worst of the IPS screens. Have you compared to a BOE-HYDIS or LG FV?

The problem is probably different default color temperature of these panels. IDTech has better coating (no visible sparkling/grainess) but colors looks more "cold" comparing to LG. Unfortunately Lenovo does not provide color profile files for displays. My LCD monitor with LG A-TW-IPS panel also have more "warm" colors in default profile.

In any case, all of them are still far better than TN craps

Talk about an emotional roller coaster. After misreading a post that left me feeling better about my purchase, I now find out that I have "TN craps". What is an even worse though is that almost everything I would replace this laptop with now, and into the future, would have "TN craps". So what can anyone do about that?