T60p w/ IPS UXGA on Lenovo Outlet!

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WPWoodJr · #271 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:29 pm

WarrenInDe wrote:So far I am. I did the reinstall and am now in the middle of updates.

Once I get the XP and Thinkadvantage updates done I'll put in my extra stick of ram and start on Visual Studio.Net, Lightroom and the rest of my app.

Warren

Can you compare the screen to, say, the LG SXGA+? Or anything else?

WarrenInDe · #272 Post by **WarrenInDe** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:40 pm

WPWoodJr wrote:Can you compare the screen to, say, the LG SXGA+? Or anything else?

Sorry, No. This is my first Thinkpad besides the T60p I use for work. It's a 2008-YE5 and I believe it has the same screen.

Warren

vinceg84 · #273 Post by **vinceg84** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:19 pm

Looks like they are all sold out now. Glad I picked mine up.

maximus_ · #274 Post by **maximus_** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:06 pm

I missed one but found one with the BOE screen on ebay. whew after seeing the T61s I'm very happy and this is a GREAT upgrade from a A31P!

Bing0 · #275 Post by **Bing0** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:15 pm

maximus_ wrote:I missed one but found one with the BOE screen on ebay. whew after seeing the T61s I'm very happy and this is a GREAT upgrade from a A31P!

I agree totally...I am coming from an A31p also.

codek · #276 Post by **codek** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:29 am

How much was the this t60 with the wuxga. was it 1600x1200 resolution?

Proteus · #277 Post by **Proteus** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:54 am

Original question still stands, even if it is outlet vs refurb.
Why would people want a slower 32-bit Core CPU based model, with 1 year warranty, when the core2duo widescreen T60p is the same price? If you need better than WSXGA+, the T61p is only a few months out..and will probably be around the same price. That "outlet" deal is no bargain at all.....

evforme · #278 Post by **evforme** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:31 am

IPS >>>>>>>> TN for one. In my opinion, my experience to using the laptop is probably most influenced by the display. I code for long periods of time staring at text and the better quality display, the easier it is for me to stare at it for so long. Plus from an architectural and performance standpoint, there's very little difference in terms of gain going from CD to C2D and 64-bit adoption isn't on my list of priorities. According to most reviews, gains are at best 5-10% clock for clock in specific applications doing specific tasks. IMO, this is a steal. The warranty is also 3 years.

Edit: The only cool thing I look forward to Santa Rosa is Robson (basically an additional layer of memory in the form of NAND? flash). Even then, everything else is the same except support for 4GB memory and faster bus. CD to Santa Rosa (w/ the faster bus) should be significant in terms of performance than C2D -> Santa Rosa. I think that difference will be much greater than the jump from CD -> C2D.

lophiomys · #279 Post by **lophiomys** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:37 am

IMHO the advantages are
+ IPS Flexview, 133 DPI
+ 4:3 over Widescreen
+ slower CPU (hoping for less heat dissipation)
+ XP over Vista

Dodge DeBoulet · #280 Post by **Dodge DeBoulet** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:01 am

lophiomys wrote:IMHO the advantages are
+ IPS Flexview, 133 DPI
+ 4:3 over Widescreen
+ slower CPU (hoping for less heat dissipation)
+ XP over Vista

From what I've seen, getting a faster CPU and running it at a slower speed will give you the same benefit with regard to minimizing heat. The added benefit, though, is that the speed is there when you need it . . .

And you can still order the regular T60 with XP.

So in the end, the only real benefit is the screen, and strictly for those that prefer the Academy Ratio

Troels · #281 Post by **Troels** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:22 am

Proteus wrote:Original question still stands, even if it is outlet vs refurb.
Why would people want a slower 32-bit Core CPU based model, with 1 year warranty, when the core2duo widescreen T60p is the same price? If you need better than WSXGA+, the T61p is only a few months out..and will probably be around the same price. That "outlet" deal is no bargain at all.....

It was the best bargain you'll ever find, IMO, from Lenovo.

64 Bit is overrated. I can see why someone must use it, but not in a laptop, but in servers with 10GiB+ of memory, RAID'ed harddrives, and desktop GPUs. Doing simulations.

In my oppinion the T61 look ridiculous and have the most useless extra features like a webcam and a card reader. If i wanted that i'd buy a multimedia notebook like the Z-series, if i would even consider Lenovo one bit since HP certainly is comptetive in that area too.
But
Like evforme said, the really promising technology is the Robson tech, which i think does mean longer runtimes on battery.

I use my laptop for 10+ hours a day, and using TN screens is horrible in the long run. Even though many praise the quality of the T60 widescreens, i still think it isn't very good. See http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3563 for example.

2 Bricks Short · #282 Post by **2 Bricks Short** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:14 am

Proteus wrote:Original question still stands, even if it is outlet vs refurb.
Why would people want a slower 32-bit Core CPU based model, with 1 year warranty, when the core2duo widescreen T60p is the same price? If you need better than WSXGA+, the T61p is only a few months out..and will probably be around the same price. That "outlet" deal is no bargain at all.....

O.k. You are smarter than I am.

It would be helpful if you could let me know where to get a good deal on a T7600 processor to go with this great screen.

darrenf · #283 Post by **darrenf** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:48 pm

FWIW, all the Core (and Core 2?) CPUs that I've worked with run at a baseline speed of 1GHz so unless you need the speed I don't think a faster chip requires more power.

If you can get a chip with 4M Cache instead of 2M, you will get faster performance with a negligible increase in power consumption and heat.

-darren

okashira · #284 Post by **okashira** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:55 pm

Proteus wrote:Original question still stands, even if it is outlet vs refurb.
Why would people want a slower 32-bit Core CPU based model, with 1 year warranty, when the core2duo widescreen T60p is the same price? If you need better than WSXGA+, the T61p is only a few months out..and will probably be around the same price. That "outlet" deal is no bargain at all.....

I just configured the same exact system as the t60p in this thread in the widescreen model. came to $2,076.99.

the only differences being:
c2d 2.0 vs cd 2.0
widescreen WSXGA+ vs FV UXGA

now, I got the outlet deal for alot less then that, and considering the FV screen was like a $200 option... and 32 bit 64 bit? that's funny, because I know you don't even run a 64bit O.S.

pianowizard · #285 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:06 pm

okashira wrote:c2d 2.0 vs cd 2.0

According to benchmark results posted yesterday in another thread, the difference between them is only like 15%.

okashira · #286 Post by **okashira** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:15 pm

pianowizard wrote:
okashira wrote:c2d 2.0 vs cd 2.0
According to benchmark results posted yesterday in another thread, the difference between them is only like 15%.

not to mention the outlet t60p can be easily upgraded to a c2d.

evforme · #287 Post by **evforme** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:24 pm

pianowizard wrote:
okashira wrote:c2d 2.0 vs cd 2.0
According to benchmark results posted yesterday in another thread, the difference between them is only like 15%.

On average is actually quite less than that. 15% is probably as ideal as it'll ever get in a specific application/situation. You just don't have applications that will effectively use 2x the increase in cache size, as there are other significant bottlenecks in performance besides the CPU (memory, bus, hd, etc.). Santa Rosa should help to alleviate that w/ Robson. The rest of Santa Rosa is all hype.

taob · #288 Post by **taob** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:48 am

Bumpity bump...

I received the first of two 2623-DDU T60p's yesterday. It actually arrived last Thursday, but there was a mix up in the mailroom, so I was not informed it had arrived.

The other one still requires some paperwork on my part to clear Customs.

Anyway, I have it side-by-side with my 2623-K8U T60 with the 41W6707 15" SXGA+ FlexView, and there is a difference... I can't say which one is "better" yet, but I have noticed what I would consider a defect with the T60p display (the 42T0344/42T0345 IDTech). If you have a bright region within a dark region, you will see some ghosting above and below the bright region, in the dark region. This is not "ghosting" in the sense of a slower pixel response times. This looks like some kind of voltage leak.

Change your desktop to a plain, solid colour... a dark colour (but not black!) works best. Then open a small window with a pure white background (like Notepad). Do you see a vertical column of slightly brighter region against the dark background, aligned with the window? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

I'll have to take a photo of the effect... I've seen this phenomenon before on older analog-driven LCD displays. I'm hope this is a defect (and Lenovo will replace it), and not a "feature" of the IDTech...

Troels · #289 Post by **Troels** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:00 am

Taob,
Search the T4x forums... it's not considered a defect, but it seems to differ a lot on the Idtechs between the exact same type of panels.
I've seen this happen with some other newer panels too, though, these are neither for laptops OR IPS.

taob · #290 Post by **taob** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:23 am

Troels wrote:Taob,
Search the T4x forums... it's not considered a defect, but it seems to differ a lot on the Idtechs between the exact same type of panels.
I've seen this happen with some other newer panels too, though, these are neither for laptops OR IPS.

I did several searches, but I don't think I'm looking for the right terms. I see many threads about uneven backlighting or dark patches in screen corners, etc. but this isn't what I'm seeing on my display. My problem is definitely related to how the LCD handles a high-contrast transition, and how that results in vertical bands of slightly lighter shade. This definitely does not happen on my SXGA+ FlexView T60.

I suppose I can wait until the other 2623DDU arrives to see if it has the same problem. It's almost like the vertical banding problem you would see on the old dual-scan LCDs, though not quite that bad.

darrenf · #291 Post by **darrenf** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:27 am

What color desktop are you using? I'm trying to reproduce your symptoms but so far I haven't been able to do so. A photograph of the problem would go a long way to explaining it.

Thanks!

-darren

taob · #292 Post by **taob** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:49 am

darrenf wrote:A photograph of the problem would go a long way to explaining it.

Yep, comin' right up... I was using the darkest grey patch in the standard Vista selection of solid colours, which corresponds to RGB (70,70,70).

Troels · #293 Post by **Troels** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:59 am

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=20286

I agree, it wasn't easy to find the thread... but that one was probably the most informative.

One more, which contains two pics:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=9739

This is similar to what you see?

Edit:
But other than that i think you should definitely complain to Lenovo about the issues, if it's bothering you... i'm afraid this is the difference between the various numbers of the UXGA idtech screen revisions. There are 5 or so. That would probably explain why relatively few ever speak of it. Just a theory.

taob · #294 Post by **taob** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:13 am

Here is a link to a photo of the screen, with some annotation. It is definitely not a flare or reflection issue, or anything to do with the viewing conditions or camera lens (or the lens in your eye, for that matter

). The bands move around if you move the windows around. It seems to be a problem isolating a strong video signal to only the rows of pixels that should be lit up.

http://www.luxography.ca/Images/Other/i ... _notes.jpg (1000x1500 JPEG, 117K)

taob · #295 Post by **taob** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:24 am

Aha, yes, those threads talk about the same issue I'm seeing here, Troels. The T60 15" SXGA+ panel definitely does not exhibit this problem, and I noticed it on the T60p almost as soon as I switched from Vista's default bright desktop background to something more to my tastes (e.g., dark

). I then switched to a solid colour to make sure I was seeing this correctly.

Aside from model differences, I suspect more people have not noticed because many people tend to run their windows full screen (or very close to it), and thus would not see the problem. It only comes up if you have both a dark background and a relatively narrow and tall bright white window.

Although I make my living with photography, I don't think this will be an issue in practice. If I will be showing off photos, it will be in "lights out" mode (i.e., no window decorations, dark background, no other distracting elements, etc.). However, it could be a problem if the photo itself has a bright foreground element in front of a dark background (e.g., backlit windows taken from inside a relatively dark room).

Hrm... I'll have to figure out what the real impact is, and decide whether it would be better to keep the T60 (no banding problem, but lower resolution and slower ATI adapter) or the T60p (higher res and faster ATI adapter, but has a banding problem).

dr_st · #296 Post by **dr_st** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:13 am

Yep. This is the thing that made me happy that they put an LG in my T42. But I guess it's not a big problem.

Troels · #297 Post by **Troels** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:41 am

Hehe.. you could also take one for the team, buy a BOE-Hydis UXGA off ebay and put this in the other T60p you're awaiting, so we can get a head to head direct comparison

It's actually a weird issue. I have a SXGA+ idtech from a T42 with no echoes or banding. Part no. is N150P3-L01, but the UXGA i bought used, but arrived damaged, does have similar banding, but it doesn't look quite as severe though

.

taob · #298 Post by **taob** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:11 am

I only see one 15" UXGA BOE Hydis on eBay right now... anyone have C$800 to spare?

darrenf · #299 Post by **darrenf** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:37 am

D'oh! You had to show this to me, didn't you?!?!

Mine exhibits that behavior too which stinks. I think I'll leave my desktop set to black.

-darren

WPWoodJr · #300 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:14 pm

taob wrote:Anyway, I have it side-by-side with my 2623-K8U T60 with the 41W6707 15" SXGA+ FlexView, and there is a difference... I can't say which one is "better" yet

Can you compare/contrast/discuss the color reproduction capabilities of the IDTech UXGA vs the LG SXGA+? Is the LG more saturated? Which is brighter? Which has better viewing angles? Does the IDTech look brighter "straight on" than the LG? etc etc

T60p w/ IPS UXGA on Lenovo Outlet!

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