T60p w/ IPS UXGA on Lenovo Outlet!

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evforme · #91 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:42 pm

okashira wrote:
evforme wrote: guess I'll be looking to cancel my order tomorrow morning. I really expected better than this from a major OEM. This kind of shady stuff you only really see in smaller shops.
Why not keep and consider a GB on the hydis screens? should be an easy swap.

Wouldn't that void my warranty? I'm a bit apprehensive to pry the laptop open.

okashira · #92 Post by **okashira** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:54 pm

evforme wrote:
okashira wrote: Why not keep and consider a GB on the hydis screens? should be an easy swap.
Wouldn't that void my warranty? I'm a bit apprehensive to pry the laptop open.

officially, yes. but lenovo would never know.
that's your call though. lenovo does build these machines to be servied, though. much easier then other laptops.

Bing0 · #93 Post by **Bing0** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 pm

ryengineer wrote:Well, you guys should've done those research before.

But just hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Apparently, there was a guy selling this machine in market place, go ask him about the lcd.

I did my research. According to Lenovo, the only two displays for this machine were the two 15" Hydis brands. One FFS and one sRGB.

evforme · #94 Post by **evforme** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:34 pm

Bing0 wrote:I did my research. According to Lenovo, the only two displays for this machine were the two 15" Hydis brands. One FFS and one sRGB.

Research:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62806

on the bottom of the page. The 2623 model should never have come with an IDTech panel.

Bing0 · #95 Post by **Bing0** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:07 am

I have alreday ordered a BOE Hydis panel in anticipation of this display not being the type advertised.

I am strangely not really angry and yet absolutely furious at the same time. If Lenovo has actually done this, then (in my opinion) everything I had feared whenever I first heard of the sale of IBM's pc division has come to pass.
This is a maneuver that IBM never would have pulled. I am certain of that. It is dishonest and and a con. It is just that simple.

If my ThinkPad arrives with the display as bad as it has been described here and it is not a defect and/or not 1 of the 2 possible original parts indicated as fru numbers for this model,

Then I will say with sad confidence here in this thread....

The ThinkPad is dead...

Troels · #96 Post by **Troels** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:33 am

I say this once and for all.
You're drawing conclusions from a spec sheet.
See the images and RGB uniformity of http://www.notebookcheck.com/laptop/con ... ew/745/65/

Look at the screen in real life before you judge anything.
I think hoya's pictures are some of the most misleading pictures i have ever seen of the screens.
I have since posted a SXGA+ shot of the same IDtech with the same autumn background with neutral colors taken with a A80 Canon ... but nobody ever commented on that .... but obviously it looked much more warmer than hoya's pictures showed.

And..

1) About response time. If it is IPS it's not 30 ms rise+fall. It's IPS, it's old but slow. There's about no doubt that the response times are identical, but BOE only lists rise time which isn't uncommon. Also, they list typical specs.

2) The contrast ratio of 400:1 is typical, while there is no indication wether 500:1 is typical.

But i still feel that it is misleading how Lenovo advertises this as an 2623DDU

evforme · #97 Post by **evforme** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:17 am

After some consideration, I'll probably just keep whatever I get.

Troels wrote:But i still feel that it is misleading how Lenovo advertises this as an 2623DDU

However, this is what aggravates me the most. Honestly, I wouldn't care even if the IDTech panel happens to be superior to the BOE panel. I just look to get what I paid for, and would have appreciated at least some response from Lenovo saying something along the lines of "sorry, no more BOE panels, but if you still want we have the IDTech panels." I bought a 2623DDU but IMO I'm not getting a 2623DDU.

Bing0 wrote:The ThinkPad is dead...

lol, that's a bit extreme. If anything, the market killed "the ThinkPad" and not Lenovo.

2 Bricks Short · #98 Post by **2 Bricks Short** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:12 am

My ship date was pushed out 2 days last night. Do you think that they have read the posts here and they are changing out my screen? Fat chance!

Again, I need to know. Even if this screen is an IDtech, is it still going to be better than a TN screen? Is it still going to be as good or better than most of what is out there? Unlike a previous poster indicated, I think cancelling this order is worth a try if the screen is that inferior.

I do know one thing for sure. After the WS return, if I have to return this box too, I am done with Lenovo. When my T42 died and I bought this Acer for temporary use, I knew exactly what I was getting and I knew not to expect much. With Lenovo now, I have no idea what I am getting, and I do not know what to expect. If the posts here are any indication, I cannot expect the best.

Troels · #99 Post by **Troels** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:18 am

2 Bricks Short wrote:My ship date was pushed out 2 days last night. Do you think that they have read the posts here and they are changing out my screen? Fat chance!

Again, I need to know. Even if this screen is an IDtech, is it still going to be better than a TN screen? Is it still going to be as good or better than most of what is out there? Unlike a previous poster indicated, I think cancelling this order is worth a try if the screen is that inferior.

I do know one thing for sure. After the WS return, if I have to return this box too, I am done with Lenovo. When my T42 died and I bought this Acer for temporary use, I knew exactly what I was getting and I knew not to expect much. With Lenovo now, I have no idea what I am getting, and I do not know what to expect. If the posts here are any indication, I cannot expect the best.

Well, i suggest you call them and ask why your order was pushed back two days.

But you can expect the second best. Some might say the best.

People are panicking because they don't know what they are talking about at all, like they never have entered the T4x forums. I'm really getting fed up with people doing little to no research about what they are getting beforehand. But alas, this happens all the time

2 Bricks Short · #100 Post by **2 Bricks Short** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:40 am

About the 2 day push out - I have assumed that it was weather related. I was joking.

I am not panicing. I am, however, deferring to those in this forum who hopefully have more experience in this area. I do not like to waste my money. Still, my questions are still simple. Even if this screen is an IDtech, is it still going to be better than a TN screen? Is it still going to be as good or better than most of what is out there?

I have heard one response to this type of question but I would like to hear more before this thing ships.

Bing0 · #101 Post by **Bing0** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:42 am

Bing0 wrote:
The ThinkPad is dead...

Lenovo is not an innocent victim of the market.

They made a conscious choice to move away from high quality screens when they implemented the 14.1 and 15.4 WS displays.
So now most of their notebook sales are these form factors with displays that are inferior in every way.

And now everyone really wonders why they cannot get suppliers for their IPS notebook displays?

The statement:
"If anything, the market killed "the ThinkPad" and not Lenovo."
... is B.S. and spin relating to a situation that has it's roots in a decision made by Lenovo to maximize profits by going to cheaper and more easily acquired displays.

Oh yeah the market is dictating that these displays are getting harder to find, but what everyone is forgetting here is that Lenovo is not manufacturing standard format T60 machines very much longer and the other options are not Flexview.

Lenovo is full of crap.

WarrenInDe · #102 Post by **WarrenInDe** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:51 am

I also have one of these on the way. The ship date is currently 4/19.

I use a t60p, 2008-YE5 at work so I can compare what I get to it. I needed a new personal laptop and liked the durability and nice display of my work machine, so I ponied up and orded the DDu from the outlet.

I did a lookup of the parts that shipped with my work T60p which I got 2-3 months ago, and by sn this is what came up.

42T0344 42T0345 15 INCH LCD DISPLAY FRU YES
42W2682 0000000 15.0 UXGA T40 TFT, NO WWAN SHELL TOP:MEC NO

So it appears that my work machine has the same display as what atleast one person says they got and what I assume I'm getting. That's awesome to me.

The display of my work machine is one thing that prompted me to upgrade my order and get the outlet DDU. I had ordered a WSXGA+ over the weekend which I cancelled yesterday and ordered this one.

Warren

DenTP4rm · #103 Post by **DenTP4rm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:18 am

WarrenInDe wrote:I also have one of these on the way. The ship date is currently 4/19.

I did a lookup of the parts that shipped with my work T60p which I got 2-3 months ago, and by sn this is what came up.

42T0344 42T0345 15 INCH LCD DISPLAY FRU YES
42W2682 0000000 15.0 UXGA T40 TFT, NO WWAN SHELL TOP:MEC NO

So it appears that my work machine has the same display as what atleast one person says they got and what I assume I'm getting. That's awesome to me.

The display of my work machine is one thing that prompted me to upgrade my order and get the outlet DDU. I had ordered a WSXGA+ over the weekend which I cancelled yesterday and ordered this one.

Warren

Warren,
It would be very helpful to the rest of us trying to figure out which screen is shipping with these if you would let us know once yours ships and you have a serial # on which screen it's coming with. If you could input that info here when you have it we would sure appreciate it.

Also, forgive me but I'm a little confused on your comments about your work machine. I understand it's got the same display as evforme's, the 42T0344 which is apparently the IDTech. Are you happy with it, just satisfied or a little dissapointed?

When you said "The display of my work machine is one thing that prompted me to upgrade my order and get the outlet DDU" did you mean you wanted a better display or one similar to your work machine's?

Thanks for any clarification.
regards,
DenTP4rm

WarrenInDe · #104 Post by **WarrenInDe** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:30 am

DenTP4rm,

From reading posts I found here I got the DDU because I thought it would be an upgraded display from the ws I had ordered originally and get a display as good (the same) as my work machine.

I'm a developer and 2 days a week I get to work from home. On those days I use my work T60P with it's display (no external displays like the 2 I use while at work) for 9 hours straight. I have no problem with it's display.

I will certaintly post what is coming when I get a sn. I've never ordered anything from IBM/Lenovo before. It sounds like once my order status is set to "Shipped" on my order status page it will show the SN, is that correct?

Warren

WPWoodJr · #105 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:44 am

Bing0 wrote:I have alreday ordered a BOE Hydis panel in anticipation of this display not being the type advertised.

I am strangely not really angry and yet absolutely furious at the same time. If Lenovo has actually done this, then (in my opinion) everything I had feared whenever I first heard of the sale of IBM's pc division has come to pass.
This is a maneuver that IBM never would have pulled. I am certain of that. It is dishonest and and a con. It is just that simple.

If my ThinkPad arrives with the display as bad as it has been described here and it is not a defect and/or not 1 of the 2 possible original parts indicated as fru numbers for this model,

Then I will say with sad confidence here in this thread....

The ThinkPad is dead...

I'm sympathetic that you may not get the screen you hoped for, but I can't fault Lenovo either since they are sending an UXGA Flexview, as advertised. They just sourced from a different vendor, which is normal practice.

WPWoodJr · #106 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:51 am

2 Bricks Short wrote:Still, my questions are still simple. Even if this screen is an IDtech, is it still going to be better than a TN screen? Is it still going to be as good or better than most of what is out there?

I have heard one response to this type of question but I would like to hear more before this thing ships.

Yes, it will still be better than the TN screen. It will have great viewing angles and good color response, but not as saturated and vibrant color as the LG Flexview SXGA+ It won't "shimmer" like the LG. It won't be as bright as the LG and the BOE-Hydis if its the same screen as the T42p has. I have the T42p Flexview UXGA and the T60p Flexview SXGA+.

taob · #107 Post by **taob** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:55 am

evforme wrote:I bought a 2623DDU but IMO I'm not getting a 2623DDU.

I haven't paid close enough attention to IBM/Lenovo SKUs in the past, but they never mention the component supplier in the product description or parts lookup. Is there anywhere that guarantees a particular Thinkpad model must have also have a particular model of component? AFAIK, all you can expect is a "15-inch FlexView 1600x1200 display"... there should be no expectation as to the supplier, be it LG, BOE Hydis, IDTech, etc. I imagine the same applies to the keyboard, the hard drive, the DVD burner, etc.

For certain components (I'm thinking specifically of both the wired and wireless NICs), they do mention the specific vendor and model, and you can take that to the bank. But for those other components, I don't think Lenovo is trying to mislead anyone, because they never guaranteed who the supplier would be in the first place.

darrenf · #108 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:28 am

FYI: Mine is shipping with a

42T0344 42T0345 15 INCH LCD DISPLAY FRU YES

as well. Looks like it's on the slow boat from China (7 days estimated shipping) but I'll make a report on the screen once I've seen it if someone here doesn't beat me to it.

Interestingly, it also ships with a Sanyo battery with MFG# 92P1132. I wonder if that's the same as the FRU# 92P1131 that was covered in the March 1 battery recall? Perhaps the 92P1132 is the defect-free replacement (one can hope).

-darren

okashira · #109 Post by **okashira** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:56 am

Troels wrote:
2 Bricks Short wrote:My ship date was pushed out 2 days last night. Do you think that they have read the posts here and they are changing out my screen? Fat chance!

Again, I need to know. Even if this screen is an IDtech, is it still going to be better than a TN screen? Is it still going to be as good or better than most of what is out there? Unlike a previous poster indicated, I think cancelling this order is worth a try if the screen is that inferior.

I do know one thing for sure. After the WS return, if I have to return this box too, I am done with Lenovo. When my T42 died and I bought this Acer for temporary use, I knew exactly what I was getting and I knew not to expect much. With Lenovo now, I have no idea what I am getting, and I do not know what to expect. If the posts here are any indication, I cannot expect the best.
Well, i suggest you call them and ask why your order was pushed back two days.

But you can expect the second best. Some might say the best.

People are panicking because they don't know what they are talking about at all, like they never have entered the T4x forums. I'm really getting fed up with people doing little to no research about what they are getting beforehand. But alas, this happens all the time

well, the problem is all indications so far point to it being worse then the BOE. But I'm sure it wont be horrible, better then the cheap TN in the regular 14" t60.

okashira · #110 Post by **okashira** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:05 am

WPWoodJr wrote:
2 Bricks Short wrote:Still, my questions are still simple. Even if this screen is an IDtech, is it still going to be better than a TN screen? Is it still going to be as good or better than most of what is out there?

I have heard one response to this type of question but I would like to hear more before this thing ships.
Yes, it will still be better than the TN screen. It will have great viewing angles and good color response, but not as saturated and vibrant color as the LG Flexview SXGA+ It won't "shimmer" like the LG. It won't be as bright as the LG and the BOE-Hydis if its the same screen as the T42p has. I have the T42p Flexview UXGA and the T60p Flexview SXGA+.

WP:

Would you be willing to draw a more quantitative comparison between the two screens? (i.e. do you have a good camera?)

Troels · #111 Post by **Troels** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:19 am

taob wrote:Is there anywhere that guarantees a particular Thinkpad model must have also have a particular model of component? AFAIK, all you can expect is a "15-inch FlexView 1600x1200 display"... there should be no expectation as to the supplier, be it LG, BOE Hydis, IDTech, etc.

Well, yes - in a way. Look at the replacement parts page for the T60 series and 15". Find the UXGA lcds. No mention of anything but BOE-Hydis in the coloumn where 2623 series is listed.

WarrenInDe. It's very interesting that you have an UXGA display from IDtech in a T60p bought 2-3 months ago. The YE5 is a CTO, right?
This might suggest that this has been common practice, and maybe for an even longer time than anyone has guessed... i mean, most people assume to get the BOE-Hydis lcd, and never checks...

I see this as the last opportunity to even get an IPS panel in the highest performing laptop.

Edit: Sorry i misread your screen name, WarrenInDe.

WarrenInDe · #112 Post by **WarrenInDe** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:31 am

Troels wrote:The YE5 is a CTO, right?

Correct

Warren

WarrenInDe · #113 Post by **WarrenInDe** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:43 am

I quickly checked back a little and it looks I got my work T60P January 18th.

I work for the government so I'm not exactly sure when the order was placed but I do remember being told that it was held up in logistics for a "while".

If they take 4 weeks or so to ship, this machine could have been assembled sometime 10/06 - 11/06, maybe even 09/06

Is there a way I can look up the mfg. date by model/SN on levono's site?

Warren

darrenf · #114 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:53 am

WarrenInDe wrote:Is there a way I can look up the mfg. date by model/SN on levono's site?

It's even easier than that: look at the date to the right of your SN on the bottom of the case.

(Note: it's in YY/MM order)

-darren

WPWoodJr · #115 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:18 pm

okashira wrote: Would you be willing to draw a more quantitative comparison between the two screens? (i.e. do you have a good camera?)

Maybe tomorrow if I remember the camera

ahaile · #116 Post by **ahaile** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:34 pm

I got my serial, and I'm getting the 42TO345 screen too. So it's 3 out of 3 so far.

I think the frustration, such as it is, comes from the fact that the screen is really the only reason to buy the outlet model. Otherwise, you can get a similarly configured or better new model for less money. So we paid a premium for a quality screen ... only to find out that it wasn't quite as quality as the part sheets indicated. That's disappointing. Not end-of-the-world, freak-out, death-of-the-Thinkpad disappointing, but disappointing.

I didn't buy under EPP, so I believe I still have the possibility of returning within 30 days. I'll look at the screen and make the call.

I'm not interested in a Hydis screen groupbuy. Dropping another $2-300 into an already costly laptop (with the added risk of voiding the warranty) doesn't sound appealing to me. Either I keep this unit, or I return it and buy a Hydis UXGA model off eBay.

okashira · #117 Post by **okashira** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:37 pm

WPWoodJr wrote:
okashira wrote: Would you be willing to draw a more quantitative comparison between the two screens? (i.e. do you have a good camera?)
Maybe tomorrow if I remember the camera

Please do. I'l remind you...

Get some nice fullscreen wallpapers with plenty of contrast and color. I (we) would appreciate it.

okashira · #118 Post by **okashira** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:39 pm

ahaile wrote:I got my serial, and I'm getting the 42TO345 screen too. So it's 3 out of 3 so far.

I think the frustration, such as it is, comes from the fact that the screen is really the only reason to buy the outlet model. Otherwise, you can get a similarly configured or better new model for less money. So we paid a premium for a quality screen ... only to find out that it wasn't quit as quality as the part sheets indicated. That's disappointing. Not end-of-the-world, freak-out, death-of-the-Thinkpad disappointing, but disappointing.

I didn't buy under EPP, so I believe I still have the possibility of returning within 30 days. I'll look at the screen and make the call.

I'm not interested in a Hydis screen groupbuy. Dropping another $2-300 into an already costly laptop (with the added risk of voiding the warranty) doesn't sound appealing to me. Either I keep this unit, or I return it and buy a Hydis UXGA model off eBay.

well, looks like no GB is gonna happen. expecting the BOE AFFS screen was one of the main reasons I ordered this laptop myself, as well. I bought it with SPP discount, so I dont know the return policy. I will try to [censored] see if they'll send me a BOE screen. otherwise, ebay.

DenTP4rm · #119 Post by **DenTP4rm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:32 pm

Hey WarrenInDe,
Thanks for the feedback on your reasons for ordering and the other posts.

What I hear most everybody who is miffed about this saying is that we assumed the 2623DDU for sale on the Lenovo Outlet was the same as the original one shipped last year. In expecting it to be the "same" I think we have a reasonable right to expect the same quality in all the major parts. The LCD screen is right up at the top as far as major parts go. I have a 2623DDU ordered last summer and it has the Boe-Hydis screen. I did check on that afterward, especially when I began reading about degradation in the screen quality even on the T60p's, which is supposed to be a high end machine. We're certainly paying the price for a high end machine and I think we have the right to expect that.

A lot of the posts about LCD quality seem to be indicating the screen which is now shipping on the T60p's is not that much better than on a lower end model. I think that's a fair basis for a gripe, and if necessary, a return of product to Lenovo. You may not be able to get the Boe-Hydis screen but you don't have to accept a lesser quality screen if that's not what you you were lead to expect. I may not agree with Ahaile that the screen was the only reason for buying the outlet model but I'd say it was the deciding factor for a lot of folks and a lot of us would not have gotten into this had we known we would not get a Boe-Hydis screen.

While it's true that any manufacturer has the right to change suppliers I think that as long as Lenovo itself only lists one supplier for it's UXGA panel which is what you find on the official parts replacement page (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62806) then they should only be using that supplier, especially considering the quality difference between the Boe-Hydis and other manufacturers.

I think I raised the original doubt about the screen manufacturer so I'd like to say I appreciate everybody who wrote in and confirmed LCD numbers. If anybody else is still expecting shipment and could confirm these it would be helpful. I was planning on buying a couple of these but have pretty much decided not to go through with it now. Without the better quality screen a lot of the "discount" on this model begins to look more like a pretty raw deal. It might be better to just wait for the newer screen offerings on the T61ps.

Thanks again,
DenTP4rm

2 Bricks Short · #120 Post by **2 Bricks Short** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:39 pm

Dangit! After moving my ship date back two days to the 20th, they ship today like they were supposed to. I need a good laptop bad and now I have no idea what to do with the one that is coming.

T60p w/ IPS UXGA on Lenovo Outlet!

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