Thinkpads Forum

Ok a while ago I upgraded my T60 memory from 512 to 1gb by adding another stick. What happened was I bought one in Newegg, exact same specs. but unfamous brand, it gave me lots of BSODs, Memtest did pass. I figured it was because the strict compatible thingy with Thinkpads, so I bought one exact ibm/lenovo match sealed with warranty on ebay and things worked out perfectly.

Now RAMs getting lots cheaper, and I'm think buying 2gb/2sticks, found lots of sales these days for well-known brands like Kingston, Crucial, etc. but still not sure if it's going to give me the same problem. Do I have to use Lenovo/ibm certified specs RAM or exact match Lenovo/ibm ones for my t60?

Anyone using RAMs other than Lenovo/ibms ?

Thanks,

spt60 wrote:Anyone using RAMs other than Lenovo/ibms ?

I have a 1GB Kingston and a 1GB Samsung stick in my T60. No problem so far, after almost 3 months.

pianowizard wrote:

spt60 wrote:Anyone using RAMs other than Lenovo/ibms ?

I have a 1GB Kingston and a 1GB Samsung stick in my T60. No problem so far, after almost 3 months.

Are they labeled "Lenovo/ibm thinkpad certified" (stuff like that) in the specs as you bought them? Never thought this would give problems but found this on Newegg and somehow concerned me as my 1st purchased ram gave me prob.

spt60 wrote:Are they labeled "Lenovo/ibm thinkpad certified" (stuff like that) in the specs as you bought them?

Nope.

I think many forum members have bought this 1GB G. Skill module for their T60/X60 and are happy with it.

Oh, BTW, how many cycles of MEMTEST did you run? You should run at least 10 rounds.

pianowizard wrote:

spt60 wrote:Are they labeled "Lenovo/ibm thinkpad certified" (stuff like that) in the specs as you bought them?

Nope.

I think many forum members have bought this 1GB G. Skill module for their T60/X60 and are happy with it.

Oh, BTW, how many cycles of MEMTEST did you run? You should run at least 10 rounds.

I didn't count how many cycles I ran since I turned it on at night before I went to bed and looked at it when I woke up the next day.
I'll look next time if I have trouble again, ... not hoping for that ...

Thanks, I'll check it out.

I purchased the following memory from Newegg 2.5 months ago and it has worked flawlessly in Windows XP and Vista with the 1gb of Lenovo memory that shipped with my t60p.

Transcend JetRam 1GB 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Notebook Memory.

Others in this forum have also reported excellent results with this memory and the price is very good.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820208037

Thank you all, I guessed I wasn't lucky at my 1st time then.

btw, what are these (in short) and is the less CAS latency the better, how about buffered/registered, ECC?

Buffered/Registered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 5
ECC: No

Thanks

Oh the 1st review of Transcend was this, which was what I got, but with different brand though; the rest reviews are good:

Reviewed By: emiliacom1 on 4/17/2007
Rating + 1Rating + 1Rating + 1Rating + 1Rating + 1
Tech Level: average - Ownership: 1 week to 1 month

Pros: Price
Cons: random crashes, blue screens of death continually
Other Thoughts: Stay away from this brand. Go with known brands for quality. Bad experience.

spt60 wrote: btw, what are these (in short) and is the less CAS latency the better, how about buffered/registered, ECC?

Buffered/Registered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 5
ECC: No

Thanks

Registered RAM conatains an extra chip (called a register or buffer) that is used to stabilize the signal. This type of RAM is very stable (but a bit slower than unbuffered RAM) and is generally used in servers. Most desktop and laptop motherboards do not support registered RAM (i.e. it will not fit in the same slots as unbuffered RAM).

The CAS (column access strobe) latency of the memory does (to a certain extent), along with the frequency, determines how fast the memory operates. There are 4 (or 5) timings relating to memory: 1)"CL" or CAS latency (by far the most significant); 2) "tRCD" or RAS-to-CAS delay; 3) "tRP" or RAS pre-charge delay; 4) "tRAS" or Active-to-precharge delay; and 5) "CMD" or the command rate. Generally speaking, faster timings means better performance. This was particullary true when RAM was operating at low frequencies. However, these days, with higher-freq RAM, the frequency of the RAM has a more significant impact on performance, i.e., you are prob better off with 667MHz CL5 RAM than 533MHz CL4 RAM.

ECC is an error checking mechanism that some RAM has. It's not supported by all motherboards, but the RAM will still work in motherboards that don't support it (just ECC will not work).

efrant wrote:

spt60 wrote: btw, what are these (in short) and is the less CAS latency the better, how about buffered/registered, ECC?

Buffered/Registered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 5
ECC: No

Thanks

Registered RAM conatains an extra chip (called a register or buffer) that is used to stabilize the signal. This type of RAM is very stable (but a bit slower than unbuffered RAM) and is generally used in servers. Most desktop and laptop motherboards do not support registered RAM (i.e. it will not fit in the same slots as unbuffered RAM).

The CAS (column access strobe) latency of the memory does (to a certain extent), along with the frequency, determines how fast the memory operates. There are 4 (or 5) timings relating to memory: 1)"CL" or CAS latency (by far the most significant); 2) "tRCD" or RAS-to-CAS delay; 3) "tRP" or RAS pre-charge delay; 4) "tRAS" or Active-to-precharge delay; and 5) "CMD" or the command rate. Generally speaking, faster timings means better performance. This was particullary true when RAM was operating at low frequencies. However, these days, with higher-freq RAM, the frequency of the RAM has a more significant impact on performance, i.e., you are prob better off with 667MHz CL5 RAM than 533MHz CL4 RAM.

ECC is an error checking mechanism that some RAM has. It's not supported by all motherboards, but the RAM will still work in motherboards that don't support it (just ECC will not work).

Thank you

Will the dual func. work if I have 1 stick 1g and another is 512m? Or they have to be the same amount of ram to 'dual'?

Thanks!

spt60 wrote:Will the dual func. work if I have 1 stick 1g and another is 512m? Or they have to be the same amount of ram to 'dual'?

Thanks!

I'm pretty sure that the memory has to be matched, i.e.:

1. Both sticks have to be the same size (e.g. both are 512MB, or 1024MB)
2. Both sticks have to be the same speed (e.g. both are PC4200 or PC5300)
3. Both sticks have to have the same number of chips and module sides (e.g. both have the same number of chips on the module, and both are either single-sided or double-sided).
4. And, ideally, the chips/modules should come from the same production batch.

spt60 wrote:Will the dual func. work if I have 1 stick 1g and another is 512m? Or they have to be the same amount of ram to 'dual'?

Thanks!

It used to be that the two sticks had to be identical before dual mode will be enabled. However, any current intel motherboard with use dual mode for the ram even if the sticks are two different sizes.

HOWEVER, from my understanding, while it is technically dual mode, the performance increase is minimal when the two sticks are not identical sizes.

So, you will have better proformance whent the two sticks are the same size....

When buying a ram stick, will the spec say it's single-sided or double-sided? Any advantage of one over another? Thanks

spt60 wrote:When buying a ram stick, will the spec say it's single-sided or double-sided? Any advantage of one over another? Thanks

Laptops are pretty finicky when it comes to memory. You just have to make sure that the seller indicates compatibility with whichever laptop you want to use it in.

Disclaimer: the following is just speculation: Don't know, but I would guess there is no advantage to either single sided or double sided. I would assume that double sided RAM would be compatible with more laptops as it is likely lower density, but who knows.

The main thing is, buy RAM that is compatible with your specific laptop, and buy two sticks of the same RAM at the same time from the same vendor...

efrant wrote:Laptops are pretty finicky when it comes to memory. You just have to make sure that the seller indicates compatibility with whichever laptop you want to use it in.

Now it comes back to what made me worry and started this thread

spt60 wrote:When buying a ram stick, will the spec say it's single-sided or double-sided? Any advantage of one over another? Thanks

There should be no difference to the user. The fact that it has ram chips on one or both sides only affects how the ram will internally decode the address to pull data from the different chips.

If the two DIMMs have the same specs it should not matter if the chips are on one side or the other.

As far as compatibility goes, I have not changed the memory in either of my thinkpads, but I have in other laptops I have never had a problem with ram from the following (as long as they match the specification as listed on the installed RAM -- this is not the same as purchasing the ram that the company recommends for my system):

Corsair
Micron
Kingston

dsalyers wrote:There should be no difference to the user. The fact that it has ram chips on one or both sides only affects how the ram will internally decode the address to pull data from the different chips.

If the two DIMMs have the same specs it should not matter if the chips are on one side or the other.

As far as compatibility goes, I have not changed the memory in either of my thinkpads, but I have in other laptops I have never had a problem with ram from the following (as long as they match the specification as listed on the installed RAM -- this is not the same as purchasing the ram that the company recommends for my system):

Corsair
Micron
Kingston

Sometimes it does matter. I tried to upgrade the memory on an old Toshiba Tecra 9000 with high-density Micron RAM (which had the same specs as what I had in the laptop previously), and it didn't work -- it needed low density memory. It may not make a difference with newer chipsets like the 945PM, but I can't say for sure. Check out this link for some more info on the topic:
http://reviews.ebay.com/Myth-Low-Densit ... 0001236178

efrant wrote: Sometimes it does matter. I tried to upgrade the memory on an old Toshiba Tecra 9000 with high-density Micron RAM (which had the same specs as what I had in the laptop previously), and it didn't work -- it needed low density memory. It may not make a difference with newer chipsets like the 945PM, but I can't say for sure. Check out this link for some more info on the topic:
http://reviews.ebay.com/Myth-Low-Densit ... 0001236178

I do not think you are talking about quite the same thing, as what the questioner originally asked.

The original question asked about single versus double sided memory, not "high" density versus "low" density. He basically asked about the difference between ram sticks with eight chips (single sided) and ram sticks with sixteen chips (double sided). Or at least that was my interpretation. If the system meets JEDEC standards this double sided or single sided will not matter.

The "high" density ram referred to in the ebay document was reffering to RAM modules which have 4 chips to implement a total amount of RAM. This RAM most likely will not work in many systems as it does not follow JEDEC standards. JEDEC standards explicitly state that a total amount of RAM should only be implemented in eight or sixteen chips. Anything other then that almost definitely cause issues.

So bottom line one-side (eight chips)/two-side(16 chips) should not matter in any way for a system that correctly implements JEDEC.

dsalyers wrote:I do not think you are talking about quite the same thing, as what the questioner originally asked.

The original question asked about single versus double sided memory, not "high" density versus "low" density. He basically asked about the difference between ram sticks with eight chips (single sided) and ram sticks with sixteen chips (double sided). Or at least that was my interpretation. If the system meets JEDEC standards this double sided or single sided will not matter.

The "high" density ram referred to in the ebay document was reffering to RAM modules which have 4 chips to implement a total amount of RAM. This RAM most likely will not work in many systems as it does not follow JEDEC standards. JEDEC standards explicitly state that a total amount of RAM should only be implemented in eight or sixteen chips. Anything other then that almost definitely cause issues.

So bottom line one-side (eight chips)/two-side(16 chips) should not matter in any way for a system that correctly implements JEDEC.

You could very well be correct. But the article says it a little differently (although it may not be correct), i.e., you can have 8 chips on one side and it would still be high density RAM

efrant wrote: You could very well be correct. But the article says it a little differently (although it may not be correct), i.e., you can have 8 chips on one side and it would still be high density RAM

You are right.... I missread. I guess I am amazed about two things, 1) that there are that many memory modules floating around that don't follow JEDEC standards, 2) That there a at least some systems which will accept them.

Anyway, I make it a policy not to buy cheap generic RAM, and I would highly recommend anyone purchasing to get name brand memory like Micron of Crucial.

Thanks for the info.

dsalyers wrote: Anyway, I make it a policy not to buy cheap generic RAM, and I would highly recommend anyone purchasing to get name brand memory like Micron of Crucial.

Yeah, I agree, don't buy generic RAM. But like I said earlier, the RAM I was trying in my old Tecra 9000 was Micron, and it still didn't work... bizarre.

I use a pair of Kingston 1G PC5300 ram with latency of 5-5-5-15 and they work well with my T60.

Someone on the Newegg.com.cn buyed and recommended the brand GSKILL,which also has good compatibility with T60.

kkposh wrote:I use a pair of Kingston 1G PC5300 ram with latency of 5-5-5-15 and they work well with my T60.

Could I get the serial # for the product? I think it should be KVR667xxxx.

efrant wrote: Yeah, I agree, don't buy generic RAM. But like I said earlier, the RAM I was trying in my old Tecra 9000 was Micron, and it still didn't work... bizarre.

And the RAM was high density, not just memory timing, or just a bad stick of ram? I am really surprised that you would get something like that from Micron. Oh, well I guess the moral of the story is, make sure you can return whatever ram you buy, as you can't always get the RAM layout information unless you open the package.

evforme wrote:

kkposh wrote:I use a pair of Kingston 1G PC5300 ram with latency of 5-5-5-15 and they work well with my T60.

Could I get the serial # for the product? I think it should be KVR667xxxx.

I'm sorry,but I just can't find any extra information other than the frequency and latency in the CPU-Z.The section of SPD information is entirely blank..

Anyone knows why?
thanks..

efrant wrote: There are 4 (or 5) timings relating to memory:

Well, more like 20, but that's getting into the nitty gritty details, the only thing the regular user needs to know are the 3-4-4-8 timings