T60, T61? or still too early to call?

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newskin · #1 Post by **newskin** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:37 pm

Hello all. I have been looking to purchase my first thinkpad for the last couple of months and almost bought one about a month ago until I heard about the Santa Rosas and the T61's. Now that there has been a pretty substantial leak in information concerning the two. Can anyone offer any opinions on whether or not it's a good idea to just get a T60 now while the prices are low or is the T61 worth the wait. To me there isn't a huge performance increase in the T61 and the design looks worse, especially with the headjacks located on the front. I am novice and am simply looking for some suggestions from people that know more than I.

thj · #2 Post by **thj** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:28 am

I would like to know this aswell. But really, no one can say anything for sure yet so I say we better wait a few weeks for the first reviews.

Ivan Ivankovic · #3 Post by **Ivan Ivankovic** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:08 am

I was in the same dillema as you, but I decided to go for T60p.
It's proven itself on the market and I've read many reviews, three of my friends got it and I've seen it live in action. it's AWESOME.

I was waiting for Santa Rosa, I figured they woudn't change the design (add the widescreen but release the 4:3 models also). When I saw T61 I was disappointed. It looks just like Z series which I don't like.
They strayed away from the business class look with T61. I don't know how's that gonna turn out.
I'm sure Santa Rosa is an excellent platform, but there's not gonna be some huge advantage over the current Centrino Duo.

just my 2 cents,
I would like to hear you input on this...

snife · #4 Post by **snife** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:28 am

I'm not too impressed with the looks of the T61 14" wide model ( i like the existing 15" widescreen T60p) - it just looks a mess around the screen (although I suppose this is somewhat of a minor point).

I think the thing that will make a big difference is the Intel Robson integration in these systems which should speed up the system considerably (much more than Santa Rosa chipset itself IMHO).

Your gonna be several months before you can get your hands on a T61p I would think so as I always say, when do you need the machine? now or in a few months, you are comparing the best at the moment with the best in a few months - if you always do that you will never buy a machine.

newskin · #5 Post by **newskin** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:14 am

snife wrote:I'm not too impressed with the looks of the T61 14" wide model ( i like the existing 15" widescreen T60p) - it just looks a mess around the screen (although I suppose this is somewhat of a minor point).

I think the thing that will make a big difference is the Intel Robson integration in these systems which should speed up the system considerably (much more than Santa Rosa chipset itself IMHO).

Your gonna be several months before you can get your hands on a T61p I would think so as I always say, when do you need the machine? now or in a few months, you are comparing the best at the moment with the best in a few months - if you always do that you will never buy a machine.

I thought the Robson technology is more of an option and will probably cost quite a bit of money to add. Correct me if I am wrong? And also doesn't it just speed up bootup? I never turn off my computer anyways. Thanks for your response.

snife · #6 Post by **snife** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:04 pm

It is an option which will only be available on certain models, I don't know pricing yet but giving recent drops in NAND memory prices, I can't see it adding too much to the price.

Robson will increase drive access speeds, not only during boot but during operation, as the HDD is one of the biggest bottlenecks in a mobile system, this I believe will have a dramatic effect on performance.

Paul386 · #7 Post by **Paul386** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:56 pm

snife wrote:It is an option which will only be available on certain models, I don't know pricing yet but giving recent drops in NAND memory prices, I can't see it adding too much to the price.

Robson will increase drive access speeds, not only during boot but during operation, as the HDD is one of the biggest bottlenecks in a mobile system, this I believe will have a dramatic effect on performance.

I believe Robson is a core feature of Santa Rosa and currently all Santa Rosa systems will have 1GB of NAND memory on them:

At the Intel developer forum this past spring, Intel announced that the company would include 1GB of flash memory integrated into its upcoming mobile chipsets. The technology, dubbed Robson, is part of the Santa Rosa Centrino platform, expected to launch in the second quarter of 2007.

This inclusion of 1GB of NAND memory is actually the first phase of Robson. Soon after launch, vendors will also have the option to include 512MB instead of 1GB modules, as a cost-down alternative. Both the 1GB and 512MB modules are integrated into the Crestline chipset that makes up the core of the Santa Rosa platform.

Windows Vista is heavily reliant on the ability to use flash memory to cache files with Superfetch. Rather than reading files off the hard drive, Superfetch occasionally writes the files to an available NAND device. Vista will then pool the NAND device for the files, rather than power-up the hard drive. Since the flash memory is integrated right onto the motherboard, the system can read the memory considerably faster than the hard drive while getting a nice power-saving benefit as well.

Remember, Santa Rosa is a high end mobile platform. It does not replace the current mobile platform, but rather adds a higher end alternative.

Source: Dailytech, Intel to Include 1GB NAND Chipset on New Notebooks (October 2006)

furrycute · #8 Post by **furrycute** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:48 pm

I remember reading somewhere that Robson is optional on the Santa Rosa platform.

I also remember reading that you can either use Robson or one of those new hybrid harddrives, but not both, since Windows wont support two flash based devices.

This makes me wonder if I choose to have Robson, one day will I be able to use the laptop with an SSD?

Paul386 · #9 Post by **Paul386** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:51 pm

furrycute wrote:I remember reading somewhere that Robson is optional on the Santa Rosa platform.

I also remember reading that you can either use Robson or one of those new hybrid harddrives, but not both, since Windows wont support two flash based devices.

This makes me wonder if I choose to have Robson, one day will I be able to use the laptop with an SSD?

I am certain that the built in NAND memory will have a disable option.

I also believe that hybrid hard drives use the NAND memory for their own internal use and the OS doesn't even know what is happening.

furrycute · #10 Post by **furrycute** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:01 pm

If that is the case, then I am all for Robson!

snife · #11 Post by **snife** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:48 am

It has to be optional as you cannot have both Robson and WWAN on a ThinkPad at one time so they will have to please everyone.

I don't think it will be a problem using with future SSD drives although it would probably provide little benefit.

furrycute · #12 Post by **furrycute** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:37 am

SSD's are still too expensive at the present and for the foreseeable future.

But in two or three years a 60GB SSD will probably become much more affordable than they are right now. By then I do like to switch out my Thinkpad's main hard drive for an SSD. I like the idea of solid state storage, no moving parts, less of a chance of breaking anything...

#13 Post by **tomh009** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:26 pm

Paul386 wrote:Remember, Santa Rosa is a high end mobile platform. It does not replace the current mobile platform, but rather adds a higher end alternative.

Santa Rosa replaces the current Napa chipsets. Centrino Pro is the high-end chipset you're thinking of -- that's Santa Rosa + Intel wireless + vPro.

#14 Post by **tomh009** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:27 pm

Paul386 wrote:I also believe that hybrid hard drives use the NAND memory for their own internal use and the OS doesn't even know what is happening.

Vista does indeed have support for hybrid hard drives, so it will take optimal advantage of them. XP and older OSs do not, though.

T60, T61? or still too early to call?

T60, T61? or still too early to call?

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