Review of T61: Great machine with 90 minutes battery life

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beeblebrox · #1 Post by **beeblebrox** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:59 am

I have read this quick review several times, but still it says 95 minutes battery life, not enough for a DVD movie.

Other web sites tell me about a 4 cell battery, but a full powerhorse machine.
The points do not connect somehow...

Did I miss something here?

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/05/r ... ovo_t.html

milstein · #2 Post by **milstein** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:21 am

Are they stealing weight for the new components by reducing the 8-cells battery to 7-cells?

If the review is true, then that's really sad...
People go for Thinkpad because of the battery longevity and reliability

Please give us back the 5/6+ hours of 8-cells battery life!!!

furrycute · #3 Post by **furrycute** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:22 am

That nvidia card is a DISCRETE graphics card featuring 128mb of RAM. Performance should be similar to if not better than the old ATI x1400.

What kind of battery did that reviewer use? There is the 4cell, 6cell, and even 7cell. I highly doubt that a 7cell will last you only 95 minutes.

beeblebrox · #4 Post by **beeblebrox** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:58 am

They don't mention the battery, but I guess it is the 4 cell or 6 cell.

Here on Cnet, they tested the almost identical R61:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Lenovo_ThinkPad ... 42904.html

with a 9 cell battery and it had about 1 hour less than a T60p with a 9 cell battery on the same tasks.

So I assume, without DVD you probably get 3-3.5h office work done on a 9 cell battery. Pathetic, my old T23 had that!

On my old T40p I got almost 7 hours in Office XP on a new 9 cell.
Of course, Word was done with a "flimsy" 1.6 Ghz Banias and not a Dual 2 Super Duper Core. But it was more than fast enough.

I have the feeling that Intel is in the "Ghz Power Game" again. The faster, the better.

However, as a business user I would rather welcome a T61 with more than 8-10h battery life.

I am note sure whether my Powerpoint slides really profit from the new processing power.

sugo · #5 Post by **sugo** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:28 pm

I agree with beeblebrox. Battery life is way more important than performance for many business users .

Remember the shift from Carmel to Sonoma (T42 -> T43)? Battery life took a dive.

Hopefully Santa Rosa is not Sonoma tragedy all over again.

Bigben · #6 Post by **Bigben** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:14 pm

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2127379,00.asp

PC Mag review, they love the T61, similar issues with battery life, although not quite as bad as the Wired mini review.

sugo · #7 Post by **sugo** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:48 pm

According to the new tabook:

T61 with Nvidia: 6 cell 10.2" depth 3.8 hours
T61 with intel graphics: 4 cell 9.3" depth 3.6 hours
T61 with intel graphics: 6 cell 10.2" depth 5.7 hours
T60 with intel graphics: 6 cell 10" depth 6 hours

That means the T61's 6 cell battery will stick out an inch at the back, with inferior battery life compared with T60.

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitu ... tabook.pdf

Dead1nside · #8 Post by **Dead1nside** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:55 pm

That's a deal breaker if that's so about battery life, that's awful.

But, the pictures on the PCMag review actually make it look a lot less beefy and a bit more palletable. Is there not going to be a 9-cell? For us power users?

EDIT: sp

beeblebrox · #9 Post by **beeblebrox** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:37 pm

Dead1nside wrote:That's a deal breaker if that's so about battery life, that's awful.

But, the pictures on the PCMag review actually make it look a lot less beefy and a bit more palletable. Is there not going to be a 9-cell? For us power users?

EDIT: sp

The posting about the T61 in Lenovoblogs.com mentioned that the Santa Rosa system consumes more than 20% power than any previous system. Therefore they had to invent a new fan system to keep that thing cool and many more air vents.

Since battery performance has not followed the CPU upgrades it leaves me thinking that, indeed, the new T61 will have much less battery time than a comparable "Banias" or "Dothan" system, while doing normal MS Office stuff.

I am quite inclined to think that the Banias system , esp. the T40p, probably was the best MS Office machine ever built.

No other thinkpad reached almost 7h battery time ever, except maybe the X series.

All newer Tx systems had less and less battery time.

I guess, with the T62 in 6 months we will be back at the TP600 level, meagre 2-2.5h battery time, but with a Core 2 Quadro or whatever...

mgerbasio · #10 Post by **mgerbasio** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:40 pm

I spoke with Lenove sales today. They said the four and six cell sit flush with the back of the thinkpad but the seven cell sticks out past the back of the PC. He also said with the seven cell and the nvidia graphics card, I'll get close to six hours of battery life.

When IBM was selling ThinkPads, I had confidence with the sales reps. No experience with Lenovo so I'll have to wait to see.

Regards-Michael G.

Dead1nside · #11 Post by **Dead1nside** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:50 pm

Thanks for answering my point. What's the T60's battery life like in comparison to the T41/42 (if 43 was a step back, I own a T41p)?

Good news about the batteries sitting flush, but why not a 9-cell? I don't mind the extra bulk.

It's a good step forward that they've included a new top roll cage and the new cooling system, in my opinion it makes it a possibly option in comparison to my GPU's 85degC temperatures, if they can keep the components cooler, then it's less warranty servicing for them surely.

beeblebrox · #12 Post by **beeblebrox** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:57 pm

mgerbasio wrote:I spoke with Lenove sales today. They said the four and six cell sit flush with the back of the thinkpad but the seven cell sticks out past the back of the PC. He also said with the seven cell and the nvidia graphics card, I'll get close to six hours of battery life.

When IBM was selling ThinkPads, I had confidence with the sales reps. No experience with Lenovo so I'll have to wait to see.

Regards-Michael G.

I don't know about the batteries and their managament systems, however at Wired.com they were not able to watch a DVD through and her on another review

http://www.pcmag.com/print_article2/0,1 ... 026,00.asp

they also got less than 2h on a DVD, with a 56Wh battery (!!)
Watching a DVD as a benchmark test is quite a simple task, that even an old 600x can easily do.

So, an old 600x or T20 with a 56Wh battery can outperform a T61 for watching a DVD on a night flight.

Wait, the T61 has NEW batteries, that don't fit to older ones? Not even T60 series?!?!

Our IT purchase dept. will have another moment of joy with all these incompatible dockings, power bricks and batteries...

milstein · #13 Post by **milstein** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:02 pm

mgerbasio wrote:...He also said with the seven cell and the nvidia graphics card, I'll get close to six hours of battery life...

I am wondering what is meant by "cell" in the battery's name; I was thinking 9 cells battery = 1.5 more capacity than 6 cells battery, and the logic follows that the 7 cells battery has only 1/6 more capacity than the 6 cells battery... All because cells are referring to the number of battery cell units embedded in the battery pack, am I correct?

As a typical non-gaming Thinkpad users (who is not doing 3D graphics / programming also), I hate Intel's claim to improve battery life using the Robson tricks etc --- Instead their new Santa Rosa system drains the battery life much faster

Why can't a discrete GPU provider create some mechanism to restrict the use of power by the GPU when not required???!!!

jd1010 · #14 Post by **jd1010** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:32 pm

I was wondering the same things about the difference between a 6 cell and 7 cell battery. How much extra usage time is 1 cell going to give you if it means that something has to be sticking out of the back. I'm not sure it woud be worth it. I tried calling lenovo to ask some questions about th t61 and I seemed to be more informed about it than the sales rep was. He was supposed to call me back but I haven't heard anything from him yet. He did say that he didn't think the 6 cell would be sticking out. However someone posted the dimensions in a different thread and it seems that the 6 cell makes the length of the laptop 1" longer so I'm not sure.

jd1010 · #15 Post by **jd1010** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:40 pm

"they also got less than 2h on a DVD, with a 56Wh battery (!!) "

Is the 56wh battery the 4,6, or 7 cell battery?

slojes · #16 Post by **slojes** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:57 pm

4 cell = 37.44 wh
6 cell = 56.16 wh
7 cell = 65.52 wh

jd1010 · #17 Post by **jd1010** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:06 pm

wow...thats pretty terrible. I guess I'm going with a 7 cell if I get this laptop. I wonder if this is a problem with HP and dell's santa rosa laptops too.

jd1010 · #18 Post by **jd1010** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:32 pm

mgerbasio wrote:I spoke with Lenove sales today. They said the four and six cell sit flush with the back of the thinkpad but the seven cell sticks out past the back of the PC. He also said with the seven cell and the nvidia graphics card, I'll get close to six hours of battery life.

When IBM was selling ThinkPads, I had confidence with the sales reps. No experience with Lenovo so I'll have to wait to see.

Regards-Michael G.

I just spoke to a lenovo rep...both the 6 and 7 cell stick out of the back about a 1/2" to 1". The 6 cell gets about 5 hours and the 7 cell gets about 6 hours.

I didn't want to get the z series because I would've needed to upgrade to the 7 cell which would've been sticking out of the back. At least that had the s-video which gave me an option for video out besides the vga, which my hdtv does not have an input for. Maybe I should purchase a Z before they discountinue them.

Is their anyway to buy something to get video out from the expresscard or pc card slots?

milstein · #19 Post by **milstein** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:46 pm

jd1010 wrote: I just spoke to a lenovo rep...both the 6 and 7 cell stick out of the back about a 1/2" to 1". The 6 cell gets about 5 hours and the 7 cell gets about 6 hours.
...

Then there's an improvement in battery life? a 7 cell battery can achieve battery life of about 6 hours which is the normal battery time for a 9 cell battery in the T60 --- am I correct?

What the Wh of a T60's 9 cell battery?

Dead1nside · #20 Post by **Dead1nside** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:09 pm

Evidently if the man can't play a 2h DVD, it's not a particularly intensive task is it? What's the point in having a 4-6-7, surely following that rational you should have an 8 cell instead, or what I'd like more a 9 cell.

What's the screen brightness like? Better be better than my T41p.

Bigben · #21 Post by **Bigben** » Thu May 10, 2007 8:32 am

I have a hard time believing those sales reps when all the reviews say that the battery life sucks. It's not like they are going to put it in writing that you'll get 6 hours of usage with a 7 cell battery, so take that info with a grain of salt.

Also, Vista itself might be an issue in terms of battery life, there are a number of reports out there that Vista cuts down you battery life by a significant amount, mainly because of the Aero interface.

Dead1nside · #22 Post by **Dead1nside** » Thu May 10, 2007 10:28 am

Maybe they'll be solving that in Service Pack 1? That in particular was Slashdotted it's highly publicised, so are the slow file transfer rates. If anything it just uses the GPU more, as it's a full 3D interface, and the GPU consumes a lot of power.

milstein · #23 Post by **milstein** » Thu May 10, 2007 10:37 am

It seems that comparing the recent review of T61 battery life with the previous T60 reviews wasn't totally fair
Here are the summaries

T61 + 6 cells + Quadro NVS 140M compared to 9 cells of other brands

The 56-Wh extended battery is not as big as the 85-Wh one I'm accustomed to receiving in a ThinkPad, and the 1 hour 57 minutes it lasted while playing a DVD movie could not match the Gateway's 98-Wh battery's prowess. The T61's battery life is also two hours less than that of the Dell Latitude D630. Another peeve is that its battery is not compatible with those of the previous-generation ThinkPad T60.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2127459,00.asp

T60 with ATI X1300

The included battery is a Sony 6-cell 5200mAh battery. I did not choose the 9-cell due to its weight and size (protrudes out of the back).
For a real-world' battery test, I had screen brightness maximized, 802.11g wireless turned on, a 500mW mouse connected, 60 processes running, several applications (Word, Firefox, Winamp) active, and no optical drive access. In this scenario, the battery lasted 3.5 hours. Charging the battery back to 80% (while the notebook was being used) took one hour.
You can probably squeeze four hours out of the six cell battery if you are careful. With the nine cell, assuming a linear improvement, you can probably get more than five hours of battery life.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3002

T60 WS + ATI X1400

Battery life isn't spectacular. With a screen this big, and dedicated graphics, it would be hard to have great battery life on a 6 cell. Browsing the Internet and listening to music, with the screen turned down 2 notches from full (I enabled full brightness while on battery power in the BIOS), the battery lasts about 2.5 hours. I think these tasks are very light usage. Under stressful use it would no doubt be dramatically shorter.
If you want longer life and find the T60 appealing, it would be best to get GMA graphics, and a 14 inch and/or a 9 cell battery which should just add 50% to whatever battery life you would get with a 6 cell.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3563

T60 WS + ATI X1400 + 9 cells

I went with the 9 cell for my laptop as I knew that I would be using my laptop for long periods of time without being able to plug in. That said, the battery on my laptop lasts about 6 hours on medium brightness with the wireless on and using mainly Word, Excel, and Firefox.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3637

T60 IPS + ATI X1400 + 9 cells

I have the 9-cell battery with the T60 being reviewed. It adds a bit of weight over the standard 6-cell and sticks out but if you want close to 4 hours of battery life with the 15" screen model you'll need this size. In using the T60 without Wi-Fi and at medium brightness (3rd notch of 7) it got 3 hours 42 minutes of battery life when used lightly (typing review, or idling). You can expect to get over 3 hours with Wi-Fi on and finishing a DVD with the 9-cell battery shouldn't be a problem, well, unless it's Lord of the Rings.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2767

milstein · #24 Post by **milstein** » Thu May 10, 2007 11:13 am

In another review the T60p with 256MB ATI Mobility Radeon V5250 out performed the R61 with 128MB Nvidia Quadro NVS 140M in a DVD battery drain test:
199 min (T60p with 256MB ATI) vs 128 min (R61 with 128MB Nvidia)
http://reviews.cnet.com/Lenovo_ThinkPad ... inkPad+R61

jd1010 · #25 Post by **jd1010** » Thu May 10, 2007 11:23 am

Are their any reviews of the t61 or r61 with the intel gma? Supposedly the nvidia graphics card is a big part of the problem with the battery life. How much longer of battery life could you expect from the intel gma x3100?

beeblebrox · #26 Post by **beeblebrox** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:12 pm

I think the benchmarks and their results seem correct.

AFAIK the T43 had about 1h less than the previous Dothan, which had about 20 min less than the Banias. All on the same 6 cell battery pack.

The T42 had about 4h (plus/minus) battery time, The T43 maybe 3-3.5h. Lenovo staff says the Santa Rosa chip set sucks at least 20% more than any previous system.

So we come to 2-2.5h battery time, then including a running DVD drive we get 90 minutes. Cool.

On the other hand, Lenovo brochure says 4-5h battery.
Probably with a brand new high-power pack, screen on 0 bars and don't touch the idling system.

I assume avg. battery time of 3.5-3h. Back were we were in year 2000. Intel, good work!

Dead1nside · #27 Post by **Dead1nside** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:33 pm

9-cell battery please. Only way to get a decent day's work out of the T61.

esquire · #28 Post by **esquire** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:37 pm

I was under the impression that "mobile" computing is supposed to become more mobile not less...

Can't they install a solar panel in the lid or something innovative? 90min? That is weak.

Dead1nside · #29 Post by **Dead1nside** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:39 pm

Interesting to see what AMD's new mobile chipsets are going to be like. They have dedicated and integrated graphics, so you can use integrated while you're on the move for power saving, and then use the dedicated when you're on AC for full graphics power.

ANDS · #30 Post by **ANDS** » Fri May 11, 2007 2:21 am

Man, where are you folks working where you have no access to an outlet?

I'm not saying the battery life isn't something you shouldn't be looking at - but we've got folks at my job with R/T series laptops, and they say they are the tops (and they are out in the field often).

Review of T61: Great machine with 90 minutes battery life

Review of T61: Great machine with 90 minutes battery life

T61 vs T60 battery life comparison

T60p vs R61 DVD battery drain test

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