Thinkpads Forum

Please no more Marketing Manusha about Wide Screens being Bigger...

Here's the Real Deal:

Using Pythagoreums Theorum (a^2 + b^2 = c^2), the exact area of any right (90 degree) triangle can be calculated, especially if you know the value of c, and the slope (angle of c, or aspect).

Therefore...

A 15.0 screen (measured diagonally) with a Standard Aspect (4:3) would be roughly 9.0" x 12.0" with a total viewing area of 108.0 square inches.

A 15.4 screen (measured diagonally) with a Wide Aspect (16:10) would be roughly 8.2" x 13.1" with a total viewing area of 106.6 square inches.

This appears to be a loss of 0.8" in height, a gain of 1.1" in width, and a loss of 1.4 square inches in total viewing area.

Considering the 14 incher...

A 14.1 screen (measured diagonally) with a Standard Aspect (4:3) would be roughly 8.5" x 11.3" with a total viewing area of 95.4 square inches.

A 14.1 screen (measured diagonally) with a Wide Aspect (16:10) would be roughly 7.5" x 12.0" with a total viewing area of 89.4 square inches.

This appears to be a loss of 1.0" in height, a gain of 0.7" in width, and a loss of 6.1 inches in total viewing area.

I keep looking at my trusty A30 15", which I am desperately trying to replace with a T61p 15" IPS (be careful what you ask for you might NOT get it)... and my mind can't convince my eyes that the wide screens don't look smaller... so I ran some numbers (hope they are right - cheap italian wine)...

I'm ok with change for the good, but this change does not appear to be to my benefit.

Somebody please tell the world why the screen manufacturers are forcing this change on everybody, which is the story given by both Dell and Lenovo when asked this question frankly and directly.

Following that potentially good rational answer (regarding the manufacturers and the changes to the screens), somebody please tell me why the Marketing departments of all laptop manufacturing organizations have seemingly colluded to lie and mislead their customers about these screens actually being 'bigger'.

Lastly, tell me why I had to spend 2 hours drinking cheap italian wine and looking up pythagoreum's theorem to figure out that I'm simply getting ....

gregormacgregor wrote:please tell me why the Marketing departments of all laptop manufacturing organizations have seemingly colluded to lie and mislead their customers about these screens actually being 'bigger'.

The explanation is three-fold:

1) 15.4" widescreens are bigger than 14.1" 4:3 screens.

2) 15.4" widescreens tend to be designed to have more pixels than 15.0" 4:3 screens. The former have resolutions ranging from 1280x800 to 1920x1200, whereas the latter are available at 1024x768 to 1600x1200. Thus, 15.4" usually have bigger working areas.

3) One of the several advantages of widescreens is playing movies. Even though 15.4" screens are slightly smaller than 15.0" ones, movies can can shown at a higher magnification on the former.

People have posted all kinds of math regarding 4:3 vs WS.

I've used both, and I HATE WS!!!

I don't know why but 4:3 is just easier for me to read.

I'm a newb, hi y'all, and hate to introduce myself with a negative comment, but.... It seems like the WS phenomenon is one of those inexplicable things where people get excited about a gadget because someone told them it was cool. It's not that it's better or more useful, just that "they" said it was better, so I should agree. People are like lemmings about stuff like this.

For example, car makers are starting to use more of these push button starters. At least in BMW, you still have to put a key in a slot, then push the button. To turn it off, push the button, then push the key in, then pull the key out. Three motions, where with an ordinary key, it used to be one fluid motion. Now, for an additional $500 I can get "comfort access" and not even have to take the key out of my pocket. Give me a break!

It seems like product planners are trying to come up with ways to separate us from our money with "improvements," solutions to problems that nobody knew were "problems." Being gullible and not wanting to look out of step, people go "yeah, that's the 5hit."

Wide screens have their place and are a lot more legitimate in their usefulness than push-button starters, but not to the exclusion of one's ability to get a 4:3.

BTW, this is an awsome forum!

I don't know... the thing with Widescreen versus standard that I've really enjoyed is the increased resolution. At 1680x1050 (the one I'm using now), that beats out most 4:3 laptops out there--especially since WSXGA+ isn't exactly rare nowadays. As a programmer and a CS major, I also appreciate the extra real estate, being that I can see more on my screen at one time; placing two windows side by side is now perfectly feasible.

As a WoW player, I also can't stand going back to standard... I love being able to see more, and have more space. I'd take a low-res widescreen over a high-res standard anyday.

I guess its all a matter of preference. You either like it, or you don't.

Redmumba wrote:I don't know... the thing with Widescreen versus standard that I've really enjoyed is the increased resolution. At 1680x1050 (the one I'm using now), that beats out most 4:3 laptops out there--especially since WSXGA+ isn't exactly rare nowadays. As a programmer and a CS major, I also appreciate the extra real estate, being that I can see more on my screen at one time; placing two windows side by side is now perfectly feasible.

I guess its all a matter of preference. You either like it, or you don't.

yes it is personal preference. but i think actually you get more pixels in the standard screens. That's why widescreeens are cheaper to make and why they're being pushed (more money to the manufacturer).

The 15" standard aspect 1600x1200 thinkpad flexview has more real estate than a 15.4" 1680x1050 widescreen. And the quality of the standard ips flexview will totally blow away the widescreen (which is unavailable with IPS technolgy), as you'll see instantly & obviously if you ever put both side-by-side.

Sure, but how many UXGA screens are there in today's laptops? They're much harder to find...

Ashe Too wrote:I'm a newb, hi y'all, and hate to introduce myself with a negative comment, but.... It seems like the WS phenomenon is one of those inexplicable things where people get excited about a gadget because someone told them it was cool. It's not that it's better or more useful, just that "they" said it was better, so I should agree. People are like lemmings about stuff like this.

For example, car makers are starting to use more of these push button starters. At least in BMW, you still have to put a key in a slot, then push the button. To turn it off, push the button, then push the key in, then pull the key out. Three motions, where with an ordinary key, it used to be one fluid motion. Now, for an additional $500 I can get "comfort access" and not even have to take the key out of my pocket. Give me a break!

It seems like product planners are trying to come up with ways to separate us from our money with "improvements," solutions to problems that nobody knew were "problems." Being gullible and not wanting to look out of step, people go "yeah, that's the 5hit."

Wide screens have their place and are a lot more legitimate in their usefulness than push-button starters, but not to the exclusion of one's ability to get a 4:3.

BTW, this is an awsome forum!

With all due respect, and off some Chilean wine, I do not have a Bimmer, but I was in Orlando a couple of weeks ago and I rented a vehicle, an Altima, that had the keyless option.

I never thought that I had a problem by clicking on my remote, and then inserting the key on a slot to start the car.

By the end of a week, I think that now I have a problem with my car, I need to look for the key, insert the key whereas before I would only press the button. Clever marketing.

SkiBunny wrote:The 15" standard aspect 1600x1200 thinkpad flexview has more real estate than a 15.4" 1680x1050 widescreen.

But less than a 15.4" 1920x1200 widescreen.

SkiBunny wrote:

Redmumba wrote:I don't know... the thing with Widescreen versus standard that I've really enjoyed is the increased resolution. At 1680x1050 (the one I'm using now), that beats out most 4:3 laptops out there--especially since WSXGA+ isn't exactly rare nowadays. As a programmer and a CS major, I also appreciate the extra real estate, being that I can see more on my screen at one time; placing two windows side by side is now perfectly feasible.

I guess its all a matter of preference. You either like it, or you don't.

yes it is personal preference. but i think actually you get more pixels in the standard screens. That's why widescreeens are cheaper to make and why they're being pushed (more money to the manufacturer).

The 15" standard aspect 1600x1200 thinkpad flexview has more real estate than a 15.4" 1680x1050 widescreen. And the quality of the standard ips flexview will totally blow away the widescreen (which is unavailable with IPS technolgy), as you'll see instantly & obviously if you ever put both side-by-side.

I COMPLETELY concur. Once you use the 15" 4:3 UXGA IPS screen you will never be able to go back.

It's a shame that Hydis went belly up. Those are BY FAR the best LCDs used in ANY laptop. Past or present.

Noobest question in the forum: How do you know if you have an IPS screen?

jns2001 wrote:Noobest question in the forum: How do you know if you have an IPS screen?

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=40808

Follow up... Great replies and thanks to all who took the time.

In the final analysis - I do not watch movies or play games on my laptop - these activities are in my huge living room on my 42" wide aspect LCD TV.

We need business machines from Lenovo, designed to run CAD/CAM and without a slow migration into consumer mass marketed models.

If Lenovo chooses to look like Dell, they will end up looking like Acer instead. Be very very careful, Lenovo. Don't alienate your traditional market.

FUTURE VISION - in the long run, maybe we're better off going back to the old stereo speakers/amplifier business model. We choose our screen (speakers) first, then pick a machine (amplifier) with the appropriate power to drive the system.

If I had the opportunity to buy a T61P (without a screen), and utilize my 15" IPS Standard Aspect screen that I already own - I'd be a happy individual.

And back to the marketing manusha types, consider the benefits of marketing multiple screen form/factors to a single machine owner - I might have one for the office, one for the home, one for the living room...

...and I can guarantee you in a million years I will never buy an xbox to hook my pc up to my home entertainment system.

as was the case the last time I did this comparison, the LG FlexView delivers superior color reproduction very close to that of an LED-backlit display on a MBP. however, it is much dimmer as you can see:
http://picasaweb.google.com/murphyja2/MacBookT60


do most people consider the Hydis flexview to be superior to the LG flexview?
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 62806.html