T61 == R61?

[dsfinley]

Is it any longer meaningful to regard the R series ThinkPads as a "mainstream" product of lesser quality/value than the T series ThinkPads, with the initial T61/R61 release?

I was curious about the underlying hardware differences, which I haven't seen much about in previous posts, so I looked through the T61/R61 Hardware Maintenance Manual (HMM) for common/different components.

The listing/links for all HMMs is at http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 39298.html

The following are all the items I found that are not shared in common between the 14.1" widescreen versions of the T61 and R61, as per the HMM:

Code: Select all

Specifications (pps. 34-36)
  Ultrabay Slim device (for    DVD drive, 9.5 mm high
  T61 notebooks)               DVD/CD-RW combo drive, 9.5 mm high
                               DVD-RAM/RW drive, 9.5 mm high

  Ultrabay Enhanced device     DVD drive, 12.7 mm high
  (for R61 notebooks)          DVD/CD-RW combo drive, 12.7 mm high
                               DVD-RAM/RW drive, 12.7 mm high
  I/O ports:
    IEEE 1394 connector (for T61 notebooks)
  Battery:
    Ultrabay Slim Li Polymer battery (3 cells) (for T61)

Parts list (pps. 114-168):
  Magnesium structure frame for T61
  Magnesium structure frame for R61
  System board assembly, Intel GMA X3100 GM965 without 1394 for R61
  System board assembly, Intel GMA X3100 GM965 with 1394 for T61
  System board assembly, Intel GMA X3100 GM965 with 1394 for R61
  System board assembly, nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M for T61
  System board assembly, nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M for R61
  Thermal device and fan (Integrated) UBS for T61
  Thermal device and fan (Discrete) UBS for T61
  Thermal device and fan (Integrated) UBE for R61
  Thermal device and fan (Discrete) UBE for R61
  For WXGA LCD:
    Clear plate kit (T61)
    Clear plate kit (R61)
  For WXGA+ LCD:
    Clear plate kit (T61)
    Clear plate kit (R61)

A few oddities:
The IEEE 1394 connector implied for T61 only is an obvious error, given that custom R61s all come with IEEE 1394.
Is the IEEE 1394-less R61 system board for an R61e?
Why are the clear plate kits different when the LCDs are the same?
Why no R61 Ultrabay battery option?

The fundamental difference is that the R61 chassis is exactly 3mm thicker than the T61 chassis (and can get a BluRay drive slipped in sooner?) for an overall thickness F/R (minus feet) of 1.20"/1.37" rather than 1.09"/1.26".

As per the spec & parts list, that translates to a different chassis cage, 12.7mm vs. 9.5mm optical drives, different system boards (interesting question for Lenovo engineering as to why they paid for two different designs) and different cooling systems for the different system boards.

Otherwise, the keyboards are the same, the LCDs are the same, the components other than optical drives are the same, the component upgrade options are all the same, and the specifications - except as noted above - are the same. Basically, going by the HMM listing, they are the same machine, differing only in the chassis thickness, and the label that is put on at the end.

Lenovo's overall T vs. R differentiation strategy does become clearer, looking ahead to the T61-only "p" versions with the FX 570M in both 14.1" std and 15.4W, and the R61-only 15" std (integrated graphics, only).

Still, unless there are other factors that don't appear in the HMM or spec sheets, both the T61 and R61 14.1W models seem to be equally "top of the line".

Can anyone who has more detailed knowledge of ThinkPad internals (in either sense) confirm this initial indication that the T and R series, going forward, will differ only in their feature sets, and not in terms of the quality of components or construction?

[FRiC]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but the T61 and R61 will eventually be different only for pre-configured systems. In my country, both T61 and R61 are available in stores, but only in a single configuration:

T61 7663A22 - T7300, 1+1 GB, 120 GB, WXGA+, Nvidia, PC Card + Media slot, DVD-RAM, BGN, BT, FP, Webcam, 3-Year warranty, $2000

R61 7738A12 - T7100, 512+512 MB, 80 GB, X3100, PC Card + Media slot, DVD-RAM, BG, BT, 1-Year warranty, $1100

As for usability, the R61 actually looks much thicker in real life. The 3 mm difference is when the lid is closed. When the lid is open, the shape of the keyboard bezel makes it look larger. Also, the R61 no longer has the curved edge of previous R series, but still uses the curved Ultrabay Enhanced drives! So there's a huge gap in the Ultrabay and the bottom of the notebook sticks out. You could use a flat bezel Ultrabay Slim drive, but then there's a gap above the drive...

The clear plate is different because the model number is on the clear plate.

[dickeywang]

I thought the R series use the normal(thick) optical drive while the T series use the slim optical drive. Am I missing something?

[underclocker]

I have both R5x and T4x series machines.

The BIOS and EC, as well as other many other drivers, are the same for many R50, R51, T40, T41 & T42 machines.

The part numbers are the same for some system boards between the lines. I believe R50's and T41's share the exact same system boards on some models.

I also believe that the R's are somewhat more durable due to their increased size and weight.

I "issue" R's to my family and I keep a T for myself, since I am like many other forum members - very careful with ThinkPads.

So yes, the R's are mainstream. The R's have been fine back to the R30's, they just didn't come with the fastest components but they certainly overlapped with the T2x's for performance and features, even back then.

Now it appears that the R's span entry level to extreme performance, just like the T's. In fact, only the R50's could be upgraded to IBM's best LCD, the QXGA model.

The R's can accept either the enhanced or slim ultrabay drives.

[furrycute]

Someone who has actually seen the T61 and the R61 side by side mentioned that the plastics used on the two models are different. The plastics used in the T61 are firmer/stronger than those used in the R61. And that when you press on the lid cover, there is no flex in the T61 LCD, while there is flex in the R61 LCD.

[FRiC]

Plastic in which area? The palmrest area feels exactly the same to me. I specifically checked out the palmrests since on the T60 I just got recently, the edge of the palmrest isn't smooth, so it scratches my wrists and hands if I'm not careful.

Forgot to check the lid though since I was so busy looking at the palmrests...

The "normal" optical drives are called Ultrabay Enhanced drives.

I don't recall reading this elsewhere, for the PC Card + Media slot combo. The PC Card slot doesn't have a hinged door, but instead has a plastic insert.

[Tholek]

Forgot to check the lid though since I was so busy looking at the palmrests...

Yup, it was that:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=43500

[sokos]

so T61 and R61 have both the ultra-thin optical drives?

Coz i thought if one chooses the R61 with the bigger optical device, you could easily change to a Blueray, while the ultra-thin size isn't so much of a consumer product

[carbon_unit]

The R series uses a thicker drive than the T series. The R series is a thicker unit than the T series is. Previously the R series was a generation behind the T series in performance (R5x used the same cpu, mobo, etc as a T4x) but in the 6x generation they seem to be equal. The R series is a little heavier than the T series but somewhat sturdier.

[Tholek]

so T61 and R61 have both the ultra-thin optical drives?

Coz i thought if one chooses the R61 with the bigger optical device, you could easily change to a Blueray, while the ultra-thin size isn't so much of a consumer product

The latter is correct, although it may be possible to insert the T61 9.5mm drives in the 12mm R61 drivebay.

[FRiC]

T series has Ultrabay Slim (9.5mm), and R series has Ultrabay Enhanced (12.7mm). Normally, the slim drives are flat and enhanced drives are curved, to match the shape of the notebook. You can use slim drives in enhanced bays, but since the shape and thickness are different, you get a gap above the drive, and the front sticks out from the curvy bottom. Exceptions include the slim curve Ultraybay 2nd HDD adapter, which has a gap when used with either T and R series.

The R61 though, has a new shape, but still use the old R series drive, so there's a huge gap. They probably need to release a new generation of Ultrabay Enhanced drives specifically for the R61...