My frustration story on T60

[dickeywang]

I've been a Thinkpad user since my X23, and their technical support has been helpful in the last several years. But this time, I'm furious about the poor tech support I got from Lenovo.

I brought this T60 last September, and the GPU reached 105C constantly with the fan running at 3500rpm and the machine would automatically turn off without any warning. I send it back to the "depot" twice, but they won't fix the problem and one of their tech support told me "don't run any 3D games and you will be fine".

So I filed a complaint on bbb.org, and three days later I got an call from Lenovo, who offering me to send the machine to one of their "senior technician" and replace the system board. I got the machine back 4 days later and found the left side of the frame (next to the keyboard) was not sit appropriately. Since I don't want to send back my machine to them for the 4th time, I spend three hours trying to fix the problem by myself. While fixing the frame problem, I had to remove the heatsink, and I noticed that the plastic cover of the two thermal compounds was not removed !!!. No wonder the GPU temperature was so high because the GPU was covered by that plastic layer and the heat could never comes out! So I removed the plastic layer, and now the temperature of the GPU never goes above 90C, its still higher than any of the video cards on my desktops, but at least the machine won't turn off by itself.

I don't know what to say. I send the machine back three times (twice to the depot and once to the "senior technician"), and they didn't even know to remove the plastic layer before attach the thermal compound to the GPU!

I guess this T60 will be my last laptop I buy from Lenovo. The good full-size keyboard and helpful tech support are the only reasons that I purchased this T60 with a price that is much higher than any other brands (expect Apple, maybe), but considering the poor technical support Lenovo is actually offering, I guess it just doesn't worth it.

[pianowizard]

I agree that this is unforgivable. So, what will be your next laptop?

[dickeywang]

Haven't decided yet. I hate Dell (too heavy) and Sony (lots of my officemates' have battery problem right after the battery warranty expires). Maybe I'll get a HP/Compaq business model (I heard their Home models are not reliable). My wife is using a HP NC4200, which is very reliable and she's happy about it. The keyboard is not as good as Thinkpad's, but still OK. I have no experience with their tech support though (her NC4200 never had any problem in the last two years).

[brentpresley]

I would be on the phone about this asking for some sort of compensation.

This is just an unacceptable blunder on the part of:
1) the techs that assembled the laptop originally
2) the techs that re-evaluated the laptop

Squeeze them for AT LEAST a free stick of RAM (1GB at least).

Or better yet, get another year or two of warranty, IN WRITING.

[pianowizard]

I hate Dell (too heavy)

Dell has some business models comparable in weight to the T-series Thinkpads. We usually see the heavy and bulky Inspiron models because most people don't care about quality. I just played with a 14.1" WS Latitude D620 last week and the quality is amazing. It's just over 5 lbs, the same as the 14.1" WS T61.

I would be on the phone about this asking for some sort of compensation.

Excellent suggestion.

[dickeywang]

Thanks for the tip brentpresley. I've just send an email to the Lenovo Executive Relations Management that I talked with last time. I already have 2GB of RAM and 3 years of warranty. I don't know what else they can offer me, maybe a DVD burner to replace my CDRW/DVD combo? We will see.

[dickeywang]

Dell has some business models comparable in weight to the T-series Thinkpads. We usually see the heavy and bulky Inspiron models because most people don't care about quality. I just played with a 14.1" WS Latitude D620 last week and the quality is amazing. It's just over 5 lbs, the same as the 14.1" WS T61.

I got the impression that Dell is heavy is because the two Inspiron I brought for my parents and in-laws. They were complaining about the weight even these are Inspiron 700m which is purpose to be ultra-portable.
It's good to knwo that the Business model of Dell can be this light. I'll look at the Latitude models.

[pianowizard]

They were complaining about the weight even these are Inspiron 700m which is purpose to be ultra-portable.

I am shocked, really. I owned an Inspiron 700m for almost two years and with the standard battery, my unit weighed only 4.15 lbs (official weight is "4.1 lbs"), which is a full pound lighter than the lightest 14.1" T series. I enjoyed using that 700m more than any of the six T-series Thinkpads I've owned.

[ryengineer]

They were complaining about the weight even these are Inspiron 700m which is purpose to be ultra-portable.

I am surprised too. Are they very old folks?

[dickeywang]

They were complaining about the weight even these are Inspiron 700m which is purpose to be ultra-portable.

I am surprised too. Are they very old folks?

Not really, but they need to carry the laptop with them very often while they walking to the office (they don't drive). I guess they were hoping for 3lb laptops like my old X23.

[underclocker]

I guess they were hoping for 3lb laptops like my old X23.

Actually, your X23 was 3.5lbs. My X40 is truly 2.7lbs.

Anyway, sorry to hear that crazy story about repair.

I've had both good and back luck in the past two years with Solectron. Quite sad. They don't have trained people working on machines, just drones.

It's completely hit or miss. There should be a penatly that Lenovo pays if the machine isn't fixed right the first time. We lose time and warranty life with each trip in. At the very least, they should extend the warranty for the days it was out of our hands. Or slap an extra month on for each return trip of a laptop.

[furrycute]

At the place where I used to work, there were a couple of Dell D620's. They all looked pretty beat up. Let's just say Dell's build quality, even on their business models, did not impress me.

[dickeywang]

Ok, I just got a call from the guy in Lenovo. He claimed that they left the plastic layer on because that's how they assemble the machine (according to their "assembling code"), and he also claimed that all T60 will have this plastic layer between the GPU and thermal compound. He did say that I can decide whether remove it or not.

He made it sounds like it's not a mistake (especially he mentioned that all the other T60 will have the same plastic cover on which I am not able to verify), so I didn't get an compensate.

[dickeywang]

I guess they were hoping for 3lb laptops like my old X23.

Actually, your X23 was 3.5lbs. My X40 is truly 2.7lbs.

Anyway, sorry to hear that crazy story about repair.

I've had both good and back luck in the past two years with Solectron. Quite sad. They don't have trained people working on machines, just drones.

It's completely hit or miss. There should be a penatly that Lenovo pays if the machine isn't fixed right the first time. We lose time and warranty life with each trip in. At the very least, they should extend the warranty for the days it was out of our hands. Or slap an extra month on for each return trip of a laptop.

I agree. I had to backup my data every time I send the machine back to Lenovo for repair. It really sucks.

[tomh009]

Dell has some business models comparable in weight to the T-series Thinkpads. We usually see the heavy and bulky Inspiron models because most people don't care about quality. I just played with a 14.1" WS Latitude D620 last week and the quality is amazing.

We have a bunch of D620s here (as well as D610s, D600, D400s, D410s, C600s, C400s ...). It's reasonably light, but I personally don't feel the build quality is anywhere near ThinkPad or HP standards.

But then I think we've had this discussion before.

[Dodge DeBoulet]

Ok, I just got a call from the guy in Lenovo. He claimed that they left the plastic layer on because that's how they assemble the machine (according to their "assembling code"), and he also claimed that all T60 will have this plastic layer between the GPU and thermal compound. He did say that I can decide whether remove it or not.

He made it sounds like it's not a mistake (especially he mentioned that all the other T60 will have the same plastic cover on which I am not able to verify), so I didn't get an compensate.

I've been present at the disassembly of my T60 twice now (I have my own horror story to tell), and I can verify that there is no plastic cover over the thermal pads. Someone screwed up on the assembly of your laptop.

[dickeywang]

Ok, I just got a call from the guy in Lenovo. He claimed that they left the plastic layer on because that's how they assemble the machine (according to their "assembling code"), and he also claimed that all T60 will have this plastic layer between the GPU and thermal compound. He did say that I can decide whether remove it or not.

He made it sounds like it's not a mistake (especially he mentioned that all the other T60 will have the same plastic cover on which I am not able to verify), so I didn't get an compensate.

I've been present at the disassembly of my T60 twice now (I have my own horror story to tell), and I can verify that there is no plastic cover over the thermal pads. Someone screwed up on the assembly of your laptop.

Thanks a lot for the information. I'll call the Lenovo guy again.

[Snap]

Ok, I just got a call from the guy in Lenovo. He claimed that they left the plastic layer on because that's how they assemble the machine (according to their "assembling code"), and he also claimed that all T60 will have this plastic layer between the GPU and thermal compound. He did say that I can decide whether remove it or not.

He made it sounds like it's not a mistake (especially he mentioned that all the other T60 will have the same plastic cover on which I am not able to verify), so I didn't get an compensate.

Oh man, they must have screwed up on my T60. It's missing the thick plastic layer between the thermal compound and the GPU. rofl, what a riot. That's such bull, trying to spin this around and claim that their massively negligent mistake is actually standard procedure. I feel your pain man, if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. Glad you were able to fix the problem, but there shouldn’t have been such a problem and the fact that they were incapable of solving this problem for you after 3 attempts is outrageously shameful.

This horror story reminds me of the original asphalt roof of my home. Layers of shingles kept sliding off and I was constantly paying for repairs until it degraded to the point of leaks. I finally found a roofer who was competent enough to source the problem and he reported that the plastic covering the adhesive backing of each layer of shingle was never removed. The original roofers just nailed the layers in without utilizing the adhesive backing (to save time perhaps, time is money to them), and they managed to nail at the wrong spots too! Each layer has a solid yellow line telling you where to nail and yet they seemed to consistently miss this yellow line. It could be because each yellow line had instructions reiterating in English, “Nail on yellow line”. I suppose if the text was in Spanish the roof may have lasted longer? lol Well, that in conjunction with the lack of adhesion led to the leaks and ultimately a completely new roof (went with rock slate, which unfortunately brought 7 rooms of water damage since Katrina hit during the initial weeks of the slate roof installation & Memphis experienced unusually high winds + heavy rain).

[XIII]

Ok, I just got a call from the guy in Lenovo. He claimed that they left the plastic layer on because that's how they assemble the machine (according to their "assembling code"), and he also claimed that all T60 will have this plastic layer between the GPU and thermal compound. He did say that I can decide whether remove it or not.

He made it sounds like it's not a mistake (especially he mentioned that all the other T60 will have the same plastic cover on which I am not able to verify), so I didn't get an compensate.

The guy you called tricked you. No one put plastic cover between GPU and thermal compound because plastic is a THERMAL INSULATOR. I guess that he forgot to remove the protective plastic cover before putting the thermal compound and made it up to cover his mistakes. Tell them that you need to speak their senior engineer and complain about this. Definitely, this guy needs to learn his lesson.

[SkiBunny]

Thanks a lot for the information. I'll call the Lenovo guy again.

Which specific model of T60 is it?

And what is your location? Ppl can help better with location info on your profile.

[dickeywang]

Thanks a lot for the information. I'll call the Lenovo guy again.

Which specific model of T60 is it?

And what is your location? Ppl can help better with location info on your profile.

2007-66U, U.S.

[pl_]

I have seen three t60 heatsinks and they all had that plastic layer on top of the thermal compound, however it's so thin that you won't notice it if you don't look close enough.

Also, my heatsink has been replaced twice by the onsite technician, and both times he didn't remove the plastic layer before installing the unit.

[pianowizard]

We have a bunch of D620s here (as well as D610s, D600, D400s, D410s, C600s, C400s ...). It's reasonably light, but I personally don't feel the build quality is anywhere near ThinkPad or HP standards.

Perhaps you are comparing it with the best Thinkpads, whereas I am comparing it to the worst Thinkpads. The D620 certainly feels more solid than my former T43 and T23 and current R50p.

[tebore]

In my experience unless you're using business class HPs they are worst than Dell's Inspirons. They flex when you pick them up.

Business class machines are completely different than home class machines. IBM Thinkpads are famous because they pioneered in this class and in early laptops in general.

[wswartzendruber]

Uh, I'm pretty sure my GMA 950 doesn't have plastic covering it. I have never made it go above 75 C.

[dickeywang]

OK, just talked to the Lenovo guy (manager of their Executive Relations Management), and also talked with the "senior technician" who had worked on my T60 to replace the system board.

The technician has no idea what the plastic layer is, and he said he didn't pull it off because their manual doesn't specifically say that he needs to. So the manager told me that he needs to talk to their engineering group to find out whether that layer should be there. He said it will take a week or so. I did ask him to get me some official documents, which every T60 user can get, regarding whether the plastic layer should be removed or not.

I'll let you guys know how things going.

[Steerpike]

It's good to knwo that the Business model of Dell can be this light. I'll look at the Latitude models.

The dell latitude line is very comparable. Personally, I MUCH prefer the Dell keyboard - it does not wake the neighbors when you use it! Seriously, my girlfriend now gives me dirty looks all the time when I use the lenovo at home (on the sofa, while she's watching TV) because it's a constant clackety-clack as I type. The Dell has a whisper quiet keyboard. It's going to take time to get used to it, as you do get used to the 'positive feedback' that the un-necessary racket gives you, but once you get used to it, it works just as well. In fact, I have several users at work reporting bad key problems on their lenovo's, so there is nothing magical about the lenovo keyboard - they are just loud!

[GomJabbar]

FWIW, the T42 HMM instucts to remove the plastic sheet off of the thermal pad before installing the long fan. The T60 HMM has no such instruction.

Only in the case of Fan assembly, long, you need to peel the plastic sheet b off on the thermal rubber before you place it on the system board. Fan assembly, long M10 DOES NOT have the plastic sheet.

[tomh009]

In my experience unless you're using business class HPs they are worst than Dell's Inspirons. They flex when you pick them up.

Business class machines are completely different than home class machines. IBM Thinkpads are famous because they pioneered in this class and in early laptops in general.

Sorry, wasn't clear on this -- I was indeed referring to business-class HPs, not their consumer laptops. In my personal experience (and opinion!) Dell's business-oriented Latitude line is somewhere between the Lenovo 3000 series and ThinkPads in terms of quality of construction and components. But I recognize and respect the other opinions on this matter ...

[Troels]

Why discuss plastic sheets when there's a thick layer of "cooling pads"/gum under it? It's 2.5mm to 3 mm thick and was introduced because they obviosly misdesigned the fan assembly to not make contacts.
Of course there should be some, incase you drop the laptop, but not more than 0.5 mm.

In about 20 days, i'll buy an extra fan assembly, and mod it with extra copper (using arctic silver adhessive) and put on a small cooling pad in the correct thickness.

This seems like the oops solution they made with the T60p. Downclock GPU and memory severely so it won't generate so much heat. I paid for a v5200, now i want the v5200 performance.