T60 Keyboard Comparison (with embedded pics)

Message

acasto · #31 Post by **acasto** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:29 am

Is the problem with the rebranded keyboards just when ordering through Lenovo? Or can we not be sure if the NMB frus coming from places like that Compuvest also are not real?

fanqimeng · #32 Post by **fanqimeng** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:42 pm

pipspeak wrote:I've gone from an NMB (T43) to an ALPS (T61) and I have to say I prefer the ALPS. Sorry NMBers!

Still not in the same league as my external M-13 clicky

One of my friends got a x60 and there is a problem with his NMB keyboard. So he asked a new one from lenovo but that was Chicony (new chicony).

We compared the chincony and nmb carefully, and I have to say the new Chincony one is nearly the same as nmb. I tried the chicony and couldn't really tell the different between NMB. The feedback possibly is just little weaker and the travel is a little bit shorter.

My friend is very happy about it and he prefer the new chicony one because he can type faster on that.

Redmumba · #33 Post by **Redmumba** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:57 pm

I have an ALPS one on my T61, and I like it. The only issue I really have is one that the OP addressed, which was the big keys tend to be louder. The space bar is noticeably louder than the rest of the keys, although as usual, none of the keys are loud enough to be bothersome.

Using my girlfriend's NMB keyboard on her two and a half year old T43, however, I can definitely feel a huge difference in feedback. Her's, even after almost three years, feels much more solid, and pressing a key really "clicks." As a result, it feels like her keyboard has a lot more depth to it.

creed_mty · #34 Post by **creed_mty** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:35 am

hello everyone I know this is like annoying or stupid question well my latop was identified with chicony keyboard but that keyboard still way far better than dell latitude right?

i have my first t60 since Jan 07 so I feel very good with this keyboard and is quiet just like 2 or 3 keys are kinda clacky but not very noticiable with sound so please excuse my unexperiance but before buying my t60 I never have another laptop to compare specially the dell latitude which was my other option I just saw other thinkpads but only t40-42-43, t30's and some 700's series so I like them for the built quality so that's what impulse me to buy a t60 over the dell and some people told me that dells inspiron and lattitudes are like the same so differs on color only so i'm here and never have any issues so far with my t60. that's all thank's for any answer.

#35 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:14 am

creed_mty wrote:hello everyone I know this is like annoying or stupid question well my latop was identified with chicony keyboard but that keyboard still way far better than dell latitude right?... snip..........

Chicony is an excellent keyboard itself, I have never owned Dell other than typing on some test models for a day or two so based on that I will give former keyboard more preference than the latter.

Army Chief · #36 Post by **Army Chief** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:20 am

This is an excellent post, and I'll not detract from the stated conclusions, but the whole NMB versus everything else debate really has taken on a life of its own with some members, and I still find that a bit on the silly side.

I've owned ThinkPads (exclusively) since 1993, and I've used all of these vendors' keyboards at one time or another. My current T60 shipped with an NMB, and I've had no complaints whatsoever; it has certainly lived up to expectations. That said, I can't necessarily subscribe to the idea that it is far and away the best-ever ThinkPad keyboard, because there are times that I almost prefer the ALPS on my T41. I know this isn't just a T41 thing, either, because it too originally shipped with an NMB. Can it be that the ALPS was actually preferable to the NMB? God forbid! 'Tis true, regardless.

The NMB keyboards are great parts, as I am sure we can all agree. They do, however, have their shortcomings too ...

Durability is probably at the top of that particular list, as over time, they can feel increasingly loose and sloppy. That's been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, and it is a valid observation.

Some have suggested that the NMBs are quieter than the others in T60 trim, but if anything, I have almost noticed the opposite to be true. While not an issue of any great consequence, the NMB isn't going to get you any closer to near-silent typing than either the ALPS or the Chicony, and with age, the NMB will actually grow louder.

Finally -- and my evidence is admittedly anecdotal on this one -- I've increasingly gotten the impression over the years that the NMBs are a bit more vulnerable to the "shiny key" syndrome that can result from regular use. Again, not a show stopper, but I tend to replace keyboards when this happens, as I don't care for the slick/slipperly feel that accompanies it.

I guess what I'm saying here is that I'm likely going to be replacing my NMB at some point, and I seriously doubt that I'll be disappointed with whatever Lenovo sends me. We're talking about qualitative differences here that are likely all-but-indiscernable to the average user. Some may notice: most will not. Notwithstanding the general hype, and the deep convictions of more than a few folks who will expend considerable effort to obtain a NMB, the truth in my view is that it really doesn't make much difference; either way, you still end up with a keyboard that stands head and shoulders above the rest of what the industry has to offer. There are no real second-class citizens in the world of ThinkPad keyboards.

Chief

crashnburn · #37 Post by **crashnburn** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:02 pm

With all the Horsepower of CPUs, RAMs, Caches, Video Accelerators, System Buses & HDDs....

Keyboards & Screens seem to be making the world go around.

hypertrophy · #38 Post by **hypertrophy** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:56 am

I just recently purchased an authentic NMB keyboard, FRU 39T0958, locally from someone to replace the Chicony keyboard i have on my T61.

The key stroke on the NMB is definitely shorter. The rebound rate appears to be a bit slower than on the Chicony keyboard. The NMB's keys are a bit firmer and do not have the "hollow" feeling of the Chicony keys. There is quite a big difference in noise between the two keyboards. The NMB is most definitely quieter overall. The Chicony is rather "clickety," and is a little too audible for my taste.

My next point- Upon further inspection, i've noticed that the enter key is quite a bit more loose than the other keys, and makes a distinctive ticking sound when tapped.

@RonS or anyone else with an NMB keyboard:
Does your "Enter" key feel looser than the rest of the keys? I'm wondering if it's a trait of the keyboard itself, or maybe the person sold me a refurbished keyboard and passed it off as new?

notismed · #39 Post by **notismed** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:16 pm

I brought two T61s

My T61p came with an Alps keyboard. I really like the feel of it, I think it's great before I find out it was an Alps.

My second laptop is a T61 14.1 wide, came with an NMB keyboard. When I first tried this keyboard, I felt the Alps was clearly superior, so I figured it might be an Chicony. I then went to the lenovo website to check with my serial number, it turns out to be a NMB keyboard, part # 42T3143

I would have to say the Alps feels better than the NMB, at least to my taste. I've fair shared of thinkpads, 600, X30 and X41t piror to my current T61p. I'd say the X41t keyboard is the worse out of all, but it's still much better than other brands out there.

#40 Post by **erik** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:23 pm

it's personal preference and as such there is no right answer to this.

my last six keyboards have been japanese layout NMB. the X300 only comes with an NMB so there's no alternative there.

notismed · #41 Post by **notismed** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:07 pm

All these manufacture such as Alps, NMB must produce keyboards for other companies as well, why can't other brands duplicate thinkpad keyboards?

Truthfinder · #42 Post by **Truthfinder** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:08 am

I was recently given a new replacement keyboard from Lenovo and it turned out to be a NMB. There is certainly a plus side to this particular keyboard as the keys have a much better feel and they have a more soild feel.

I imagine they have these back in their inventory again as I didn't have to request it. This just showed up as the replacment.

Andrew T · #43 Post by **Andrew T** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:38 am

I have an Alps on my T61. I like it. Defiantly one of the best keyboards on a laptop that I have used recently (compared to new Dell laptops and those horrid, appalling HP keyboards

). One of the reasons that I bought a ThinkPad was for the keyboard and I am very happy of my decision.

Odyssey3 · #44 Post by **Odyssey3** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:49 am

Simply out of curiosity I looked up the part numbers for the ALPS, NMB and Chicony U.S. keyboards and priced them on the Lenovo site (keyboard FRU) and this is what I came up with:

NMB: 42T3143 $37.50

ALPS: 42T3209 $70.55

Chicony: 42T3273 $138.56

Why such a price discrepency exists is puzzling . . . (clearly I must be missing something . . . ).

Miller88 · #45 Post by **Miller88** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:11 am

Judging by the pictures, my T60 apparently has the Chicony. If there are better thinkpad keyboards out there, they have to be pretty darn good.

My only complaint about the keyboard in my T60 is it got loud after about a year. People think I'm typing hard but its just loud. I have popped buttons off a few times by mistake though

Truthfinder · #46 Post by **Truthfinder** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:18 am

hypertrophy wrote:I just recently purchased an authentic NMB keyboard, FRU 39T0958, locally from someone to replace the Chicony keyboard i have on my T61.

The key stroke on the NMB is definitely shorter. The rebound rate appears to be a bit slower than on the Chicony keyboard. The NMB's keys are a bit firmer and do not have the "hollow" feeling of the Chicony keys. There is quite a big difference in noise between the two keyboards. The NMB is most definitely quieter overall. The Chicony is rather "clickety," and is a little too audible for my taste.

My next point- Upon further inspection, i've noticed that the enter key is quite a bit more loose than the other keys, and makes a distinctive ticking sound when tapped.

@RonS or anyone else with an NMB keyboard:
Does your "Enter" key feel looser than the rest of the keys? I'm wondering if it's a trait of the keyboard itself, or maybe the person sold me a refurbished keyboard and passed it off as new?

FYI: THe loose feeling ENTER key is a trait of the NMB keyboards. This is my third such keyboard and each has the same issues whereas there are a few of the keys that feel looser than ohers. It's not to worry about. It's still by far the best of the three keyboards that are manufatured for the Thinkpads, as far as I'm concerned.

Kindest regards

Mr-Pacman · #47 Post by **Mr-Pacman** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:43 pm

I had to order a replacement keyboard for my T60 under warranty. It came today and it is the NMB with the little blue rubber pads under each key.

The FRU on the outside box, and the back of the keyboard are:

FRU 42T3143 P/NO 42T3109

I also had to order one for my newly purchased T61. I have already installed the keyboard, so I can't see the sticker on the back, but the part # on the box reads: FRU 42T3209. It's not an NMB...so it's either a Chicony or ALPS

I'm not sure if the two keyboards are intechangeable or not...but they appear to be the same part.

#48 Post by **gator** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:51 pm

T60/61 keyboards are interchangeable.

josh999 · #49 Post by **josh999** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:33 am

My T61 Keyboard needs replacing (2 keys sticking). I will call them and get one under warranty. But, I am not sure which FRU to ask for.

With the confusion and relabeling of keyboards, what FRU should I request to give me the best chance of getting the best replacement?

crashnburn · #50 Post by **crashnburn** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:34 am

How can we choose to get a certain one?

#51 Post by **erik** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:48 am

you can't. you'd have to buy another keyboard separately if you don't get the one you wanted.

josh999 · #52 Post by **josh999** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:05 pm

josh999 wrote:My T61 Keyboard needs replacing (2 keys sticking). I will call them and get one under warranty. But, I am not sure which FRU to ask for.

With the confusion and relabeling of keyboards, what FRU should I request to give me the best chance of getting the best replacement?

BUT...I have had Thinkpads for years...and, often if I need a replacement part under warranty, if I suggest an FRU that matches the failing part for my TP Model number (even IF it is not the EXACT FRU that originally shipped)..they will "take" the suggestion and send the one I suggested.

So, my question remains: with the relabeling, etc. which FRU is best to request for a failed T61 Keyboard?

Truthfinder · #53 Post by **Truthfinder** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:45 pm

Please understand, that Lenovo / IBM requsts the model and serial number of your unit. If it's still under the warn. they will send a keyboard that is manufatured for your unit. They make several keyboards, and each will fit the bill. You have NO CHOICE in the matter. You can rest assured that the keyboard that arrives at your door will fit and hopefully will work.

Hope this helps.

Mr-Pacman · #54 Post by **Mr-Pacman** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:49 pm

For what it's worth, I just installed the new keyboard on my machine that has the little blue rubber pad springs. I can't really tell the difference in quality or tactile feel between this one, and the original one with the little white plastic springs.

Pacman

josh999 · #55 Post by **josh999** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:52 pm

Truthfinder wrote:Please understand, that Lenovo / IBM requsts the model and serial number of your unit. If it's still under the warn. they will send a keyboard that is manufatured for your unit. They make several keyboards, and each will fit the bill. You have NO CHOICE in the matter. You can rest assured that the keyboard that arrives at your door will fit and hopefully will work.

Hope this helps.

Yes and no! I have found that if a part has failed, the Atlanta Call Center Tech will search for an FRU based on your system type. However, when their are multiple compatible FRUs, if you "suggest" the FRU before he looks it up, he will do a search on the one you gave him. If he correctly finds it to be compatible and in stock, he will send you that one.

I was only wondering, give my success with this strategy in the past, if there was any use in specifying any particular FRU given the confusion of relabeling etc.

However, I'm beginning to feel that there is enough diversity of opinion on which is "best" that maybe it is best left to be a "crap shoot".

Anyway, if I am to believe the listings when I go to IBM Maintenance Parts, it appears that only FRU # 42T3273/Chicony Keyboard is in stock. The other two are list their stock availability as "Call".

#56 Post by **erik** » Thu May 01, 2008 2:17 am

josh999 wrote:Anyway, if I am to believe the listings when I go to IBM Maintenance Parts, it appears that only FRU # 42T3273/Chicony Keyboard is in stock. The other two are list their stock availability as "Call".

anything not in stock can almost always be special ordered and not everything saying "call" is out of stock. the website doesn't seem to have real-time inventory for everything. it's weird.

josh999 · #57 Post by **josh999** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:24 pm

Odyssey3 wrote:Simply out of curiosity I looked up the part numbers for the ALPS, NMB and Chicony U.S. keyboards and priced them on the Lenovo site (keyboard FRU) and this is what I came up with:

NMB: 42T3143 $37.50

ALPS: 42T3209 $70.55

Chicony: 42T3273 $138.56

Why such a price discrepancy exists is puzzling . . . (clearly I must be missing something . . . ).

They are ALL in stock at the call center. Anyone have any idea why the great discrepancy? If they let me choose my replacement, which should I choose?

Estrogen Kid · #58 Post by **Estrogen Kid** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:39 pm

where on lenovo's site did you get a list of those prices?
and if NMB is supposedly the best, why is it about $100 cheaper than Chicony, which is rated the worst of the 3 keyboards by the OP?

josh999 · #59 Post by **josh999** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:23 am

here:

http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... logId=-840

any ideas why?

crashnburn · #60 Post by **crashnburn** » Thu May 22, 2008 7:13 pm

Time to revive this thread.

8892 02U - It has a blue springed NMB.

BUT - The space key seems to be RAISED a little much above the rest of the keyboard when observed from the front.

Is that normal or just my perception. I guess a LINK & PIC need to be updated here.

T60 Keyboard Comparison (with embedded pics)

NMB

Loose keys

Replacement Keyboard

Re: Replacement Keyboard

Re: Replacement Keyboard

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