Serial ATA Hard Drive Bay Adapter - bottleneck?

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stallen · #1 Post by **stallen** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:55 pm

Does anyone know if the ThinkPad Serial ATA Hard Drive Bay Adapter will allow the SATA hard drive to run at full speed or does it run slower through the adapter. Does the adapter create a bottleneck?

Just wondering if I would still have benefit from a 7200RPM drive over a 5400RPM drive or if even a 5400RPM drive runs as fast as it should.

wallybear · #2 Post by **wallybear** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:45 pm

I have the Serial ATA adapter. I use it with a Hitachi 80GB 5400rpm drive that shipped with my T60. I bought a new Hitachi 80GB 7200rpm drive to put in the internal hard drive bay in its place. I also have an Advanced Dock (which can take the Serial ATA adapter so that the drive is mounted at boot time).

I tested the throughput of the drives in all combinations (5400 in the internal bay and in the SATA adapter, 7200 in both places, 5400 and 7200 in the SATA adapter in the bay in the Advanced Dock).

Here's what I think you want to know:

1- The internal bay (in the T60) appears to have a maximum throughput of about 45MB per second.
2- The media bay (also in the T60 which can take the SATA adapter) appears to have a maximum throughput of about 40MB.
3- The media bay in the Advanced Dock (which can take the SATA adapter or the DVD drive) appears to have a maximum throughput of about 35MB per second.

The explanations for these figures are:

1- The internal bay (in the T60) is a SATA interface.
2- The media bay (in the T60) is a PATA interface. The SATA adapter actually converts the interface to PATA because PATA is what is used by the DVD/CD devices in the media bay. Apparently, the conversion has some overhead.
3- The media bay in the Advanced Dock is a USB2 interface. The T60 "sees" any device in that bay as a USB device. You cannot boot from a device in this bay (either CD/DVD or hard drive). Apparently, there is some overhead here, too.

I run Vista Business on the 7200 in the internal bay and XP Pro on the 5400 in the SATA adapter. XP Pro appears to boot and run applications at about the same speed as it did when it was installed in the internal bay (that is, there's not much, if any, apparent slowing down due to the PATA-to-SATA interface).

You might be wondering if the 7200 drive is worth the expense over a 5400 drive. I say, "Yes, it is". The benchmarks I've run show it being about 25% faster overall. Because the hard drive is the true "bottleneck" in any laptop (not the processer, bus, or RAM), a faster hard drive means faster performance.

Also, you might wonder if a "ReadyBoost" drive (a USB "thumb drive") actually helps Vista. Again, I say, "Yes, it does". I have 2GB of RAM in my T60 and use a 2GB Kingston USB flash drive. I can demonstrate the "boost" I get rather easily simply by running the machine with and without the flash drive. Vista works the hard drive more than XP does (apparently to me) in doing its "SuperFetch" and indexing activities. The ReadyBoost drive makes a noticable improvement. In fact, whenever I have run Vista without the USB flash drive I always end up thinking "Why does the machine seem slower?" I then realize I need to plug in the flash drive. I've been looking for an inexpensive flash drive that will go in the ExpressCard slot for the ReadyBoost. So far I haven't been willing to pay the $150 for the 4GB ExpressCard "drives" I've seen advertised. They'll come down, though, just as the USB drives have recently.

By the way, if you have a PATA adapter you can use PATA drives in the media bay instead of the SATA drive which ships with the T60. There are two models of hard disk drive adapters: one is SATA and the other is PATA. Some people have older PATA drives that they want to use with their new T6x machines. They buy the PATA adapters. I don't know if the performance varies with these adapters.

I hope this information helps you. If you want more, write to me.

stallen · #3 Post by **stallen** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:45 pm

Wow those are exactly the answers I was looking for. Since you mentioned ready boost, are you able to plug it in whenever you want? Or does it have to be plugged in before you boot.

Also, I've heard that USB based/ Ready boost drives do not assist with faster boot times and only assist after the boot. Have you found that to be the case.

Supposedly Turbo Memory will provide faster boot times as well since it is in a PCIe slot. Of course that is just theoretically since there is little proof of that. Hopefully BIOS and/or driver updates will prove its worth eventually.

Thanks for your help!

(BTW, I have purchased my laptop yet. I'm looking at the T61)

stallen · #4 Post by **stallen** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:05 pm

Also, what would you pick if you had a santa rosa laptop. 1GB Turbo Memory or 4GB express card drive?

Is this what you are talking about? Looks pretty reasonable: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820191056

Volker · #5 Post by **Volker** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:10 pm

Can you really put both PATA and SATA ultrabay slim 2nd hdd adapters in a T6x? The Lenovo pages all state that the PATA adapter is only supported on T4x.

For the record, the two parts in question are:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/UltraBay_ ... DD_Adapter
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/UltraBay_Slim_HDD_Adapter

skanky · #6 Post by **skanky** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:07 am

Volker wrote:Can you really put both PATA and SATA ultrabay slim 2nd hdd adapters in a T6x? The Lenovo pages all state that the PATA adapter is only supported on T4x.

For the record, the two parts in question are:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/UltraBay_ ... DD_Adapter
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/UltraBay_Slim_HDD_Adapter

i have the PATA ultrabay hdd adapter from my t42, it fits into my t60 no problem, its just the facia is not flush against the side is all.

and i have the SATA ultrabay for the t60 too.

no problem in dos (for ghosting) and general windows useage.

wallybear · #7 Post by **wallybear** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:29 pm

stallen wrote:Also, what would you pick if you had a santa rosa laptop. 1GB Turbo Memory or 4GB express card drive?

Is this what you are talking about? Looks pretty reasonable: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820191056

Yes, that's the device. Looks like the price has dropped considerably. I think I'll order one today for my T60 (grin).

As for "Intel Turbo Memory" versus any "ReadyBoost" flash solution (either USB, ExpressCard) what you need to know is that they are essentially the same thing with one small caveat (Intel's solution means you can't choose to use a bigger external device). This small caveat is a deal-breaker for me.

Intel's solution offers some fast NAND memory that can be added directly to the motherboard rather than via any other interface. It's optional, of course (because a buyer might not want it (more on why below), but it's also a step in the right direction. Microsoft has built in to Vista the ReadyBoost and SuperFetch technologies. The medium for those technologies are the flash memory devices (USB or ExpressCard) or an "onboard" solution like Intel's.

As for which is better, Intel's 1GB vs a 4GB express card all I can say is this: Microsoft recommends using a flash drive for ReadyBoost with either the SAME or TWICE the memory as the system RAM. The more system RAM you have, the less help the ReadyBoost is (in terms of benchmark tests). Intel's solution is only 1GB and it precludes the use of an external device for the same purpose (Vista's limitation, not Intel's). Also, testing seems to show that Intel's solution is both a poor value and not as effective as an external USB or ExpressCard solution. See this link:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-6188522.html

Because only ONE flash memory device can be used by ReadyBoost in the current release of Vista (later release may support more than one) if I were choosing right now whether to buy the Intel option versus an "external" USB or ExpressCard device I'd choose the external one. Intel's effort is a step in the right direction but as it's "Release 1" of such an effort it isn't quite what we're looking for (in my humble opinion). Future motherboards and/or future releases of Vista will likely eliminate this limitation. But that's in the future....it's not what's available now.

As for my own experience with ReadyBoost, Vista boots so much more quickly than XP that I don't really consider boot time to be an issue. And I've noticed that when I have the USB drive plugged in at boot time it starts flashing near the end of the boot process (not at the beginning) so I don't think it helps booting at all. The ReadyBoost drive DOES help regular usage and to a noticable degree (which is what matters to me---can I "see" the difference). I can plug the USB drive in and take it out whenever I want. No problems with hot swapping.

As for the PATA and SATA adapters:
Lenovo does not claim to support the PATA adapter in the T60 (I think because it doesn't quite fit properly) but it DOES work. It also fits fine in the Advanced Dock bay. But, as PATA drives are both old and getting rarer in today's market, I recommend buying the SATA adapter and getting SATA drives for it.

I hope this info answers everyone's questions. Let me know otherwise.

leegaard · #8 Post by **leegaard** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:36 pm

[quote="

no problem in dos (for ghosting) and general windows useage.[/quote]

Thats my experience too. No problems at all. PATA and SATA adapters work fine i T60

FRiC · #9 Post by **FRiC** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:37 pm

Volker wrote:Can you really put both PATA and SATA ultrabay slim 2nd hdd adapters in a T6x? The Lenovo pages all state that the PATA adapter is only supported on T4x.

For the record, the two parts in question are:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/UltraBay_ ... DD_Adapter
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/UltraBay_Slim_HDD_Adapter

Apparently, the PATA adapter works on the T60 although not officially supported, but it does NOT work on the T61.

I've also gotten my PATA adapter to work on an R51e without a hot swap Ultrabay...

Volker · #10 Post by **Volker** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:29 am

FRiC wrote:Apparently, the PATA adapter works on the T60 although not officially supported, but it does NOT work on the T61.

My T61 arrived and I can assure you that the PATA adapter works perfectly in the T61 ultrabay.

wb74160 · #11 Post by **wb74160** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:58 am

Hi all,

using the 40Y8725 SATA Ultrabay adapter on my T61, vut something strange, when i put my seagate 7200.2 HDD inside the bay, no way to screw it inside, it looks like it just stands inside withtout any screws etc... did i miss some additional accessory, to avoid HDD to move out the bay during carrying, in example in a bag ? like brackets or something maybe ?

Volker · #12 Post by **Volker** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:01 am

The 2nd hdd ultrabay adapters do not screw in the hard disk, it is just held there by the connector. There is no room for it to move around, so I don't see any problem. Have been using it for years without a hitch.

Just make sure that it is in the upright position when you pull out the ultrabay adapter

pae77 · #13 Post by **pae77** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:30 pm

On the second hard drive adapter, there is built in plastic piece that one rotates forward to lock the hard drive in place in the adapter (after one inserts the drive into the adapter).

bradhs · #14 Post by **bradhs** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:38 pm

Does anyone know if I could use a Seagate or Fujitsu drive in the UltraBay? I'm using the Serial ATA Adapter that I purchased with my T61. It states that only Hitachi or Toshiba (with specific model #'s) may be used with this adapter.

Thanks in advance,
Bradley

wb74160 · #15 Post by **wb74160** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:40 pm

I use seagate 7200RPM inside with no problem

T23_Owner · #16 Post by **T23_Owner** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:23 pm

The ultrabay in the T61 has a sata connector AND a pata connector. Your drive plugs into one of these accordingly. There is not pata to sata conversion. They are separate. If you look inside you can see there are 3 connectors.

- 1 is for sata
- 1 is for PATA
- 1 is for Battery

killigrew · #17 Post by **killigrew** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:11 am

Are you shure?
The T60 has three connectors too,
but one ist for the seriel/parallel port adapter,
i don't think this was changed in the T61.

cu

#18 Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:08 pm

T23_Owner wrote:The ultrabay in the T61 has a sata connector AND a pata connector. Your drive plugs into one of these accordingly. There is not pata to sata conversion. They are separate. If you look inside you can see there are 3 connectors.

- 1 is for sata
- 1 is for PATA
- 1 is for Battery

even though there are three connectors inside, both the SATA and PATA ultrabay adapters as well as the optical drive all use the exact same connector. the SATA connector inside the ultrabay slot, to my knowledge, isn't used by anything right now.

Serial ATA Hard Drive Bay Adapter - bottleneck?

Serial ATA Hard Drive Bay Adapter - bottleneck?

Yes...that's the thing I am thinking of...

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