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chadwicktr · #1 Post by **chadwicktr** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:30 am

I recently sold my T60 15.4 WSXGA+ because I hated my samsung screen.

I thought was going to by a T61 14.1 SXGA+ or 15.4 WSXGA+ with discrete graphics whenever they come out.

However, I just realized tonight that i can get flexview on EPP on both a T60 and T60p. I know there aren't major differences from a t60 and t61 besides the chipset/CPU/Graphics card... that I know of. To get the flexview will cost me about 200 bucks more for the same specs that I would get a T61... is it worth it? I've never seen an IPS screen. Would there be any other negatives with going with the older T60?

I probably can't afford the T60p, so I would go with the t60 w/ ATI x1400 which is what i had on the t60 I sold.

#2 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:07 am

chadwicktr wrote:To get the flexview will cost me about 200 bucks more for the same specs that I would get a T61... is it worth it? I've never seen an IPS screen. Would there be any other negatives with going with the older T60?

Flexview is worth every cent. I don't need to put more words to explain IPS (check sticky) but all I can say is, imagine a consistent screen full of perfection that is never going to let you down no matter from which angle you stare at it.

If you were to use 4GB RAM and turbo memory you couldn't on T60/p, other than that I don't see any apparent negative(s).

chadwicktr · #3 Post by **chadwicktr** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:15 am

I read the sticky again. There is a link there with a review of a N200 that compares it to the 15in Flexview... The review claims the N200 was brighter, but is that just because it is a consumer laptop?? Is flexview brighter than a regular panel (Again, I ask because my samsung was so dim).

I just use my laptop for college, and a few games like madden, far cry, etc so I doubt I will ever need 4 gigs of RAM. Turbo memory isn't for me either since I hate vista (maybe SP1 will improve) and use ubuntu and xp.

Thanks for the insight.

EDIT: I can't find any tabook that has 2613CTO T60 to see how much the 15 4:3 weighs. Where could I find that?

#4 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:19 am

N200 has a different(better) gpu than that T60 in the review and I believe it's playing a small part in making the lcd brighter. However, it still lost in terms of angles to the flexview.

If you're more concerned about brightness and not the angles then I suggest you should go with T61 with discrete gpu.

2613CTO is a Configure-to-Order model, you won't find much about it in the tabook. It's weight can vary from 5.6-6 lbs merely depending on what you add in it.

hoya · #5 Post by **hoya** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:58 am

I only see the option of building a T60 15" IPS with an X1300 (64mb of vram). where do you see the X1400 option? are you going through lenovo epp or ibm epp?

Edit: I see that the 2007-7KU has flexview with an X1400.

is the weight roughly the same when comparing the 15" to the 15.4" T60's? I'm seeing about 5.7 lbs for each w/ 6-cell.

o1001010 · #6 Post by **o1001010** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:12 am

i hate ws.

flexview is like a little piece of heaven that you get to enjoy everytime you use your thinkpad. heck using a thinkpad is already joyful.

furrycute · #7 Post by **furrycute** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:20 am

I have a 15" SXGA+ flexview and an HP glossy.

In terms of brightness, like a lot of people who have already said this, the flexview is not as bright as the glossy screen, maybe a notch or two below glossy's max brightness.

In terms of colors, the glossy colors are kind of washed out compared to the flexview colors. If you are using Vista, you will immediately notice the difference when you look at the included Vista sample pictures. On a glossy, the pictures look a little over saturated. Looks nice. But on a flexview, the same pictures look very over saturated, the contrast is turned up way too high. And you notice some JPEG compression artifacts that you never noticed before on the glossy.

The viewing angles on the flexview is very good. But the colors still tend to fade a bit if you move to extreme angles, but definitely better than a glossy.

chadwicktr · #8 Post by **chadwicktr** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:53 am

Thanks for the info Ferry, it helped...

I think I'll just hold off and see if they release a T61 14.1 SXGA+ w/ discrete, and if they don't just go with another 15.4 ws w/ discrete... The 14.1 form factor seems stupid since it is hardly any smaller and is about the same weight w/ a 7 cell.

hoya · #9 Post by **hoya** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:53 am

I'm in the same boat, so to speak.

I have the LG panel on my T60 15.4 WSXGA+, but after seeing the new LED panel on the MacBook Pro I'm now anxious to look at the FlexView or something that would be an improvement.

I tried an LG 15" SXGA+ Flexview 2 years ago and disliked it due to the sparkle effect, but I'd be willing to try another.

I agree the 14.1 WXGA T61 is a waste - too thick and heavy for that screen. and I've seen enough 14.1" SXGA+ panels to know they are all very mediocre, far worse than my current LG panel.

furrycute · #10 Post by **furrycute** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:02 am

Sparkle on the 15" SXGA+ flexview? I never heard of anyone complaining of a sparkle effect on a flexview before. And I haven't seen any sparkle effect on my flexview either.

My guess is that the new LED backlight displays would be brighter than the flexview display. But the flexview still wins out in color and viewing angles. Remember, the new LED backlight displays merely switched the backlight from a flourescent source to an LED source. The panel is still a TN panel. So it will still have the same limitations as a traditional TN panel. The only difference is that now the backlight is brighter.

Troels · #11 Post by **Troels** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:35 am

There have been a few complaints of sparkle effects with the LG Philips SXGA+ Flexviews - but it seems this has been an issue on some revisions only, while there was no sparkle with others.

WPWoodJr posted some pics of an LG Philips in macro mode that showed no sparkling whatsoever, while i have seen pictures from some other users indicating strong sparkle.

There's a pic of a MacBook with a 15.4" LED TFT on Notebookreviews. While he claims that the black levels are truly great, his pics look more like the aperture is set too low, and a low ISO since what out to be white is grey.

My point being: Shooting pictures that describe the LCD as one sees them is extremely difficult.

brainpicker · #12 Post by **brainpicker** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:19 pm

hoya wrote:I only see the option of building a T60 15" IPS with an X1300 (64mb of vram). where do you see the X1400 option? are you going through lenovo epp or ibm epp?

Edit: I see that the 2007-7KU has flexview with an X1400.

is the weight roughly the same when comparing the 15" to the 15.4" T60's? I'm seeing about 5.7 lbs for each w/ 6-cell.

That is the model I have (2007-7KU) and it is delightful. I have no idea who makes what part but it's all quite nice and the Flexview is even better than the best I've owned to this point (which, believe it or not, was on a R51). It does have the x1400 128MB, but it comes with a 9-Cell and not a 6-Cell. For ME it's perfect as I use it as a desktop that moves from room to room to patio. For everyday carry-around?... yikes, not me!

- Yak

furrycute · #13 Post by **furrycute** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:31 pm

I am coming from a 17" HP desktop replacement. So to me, my new 15" flexview T60p is quite portable

chadwicktr · #14 Post by **chadwicktr** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:01 am

Wow, I saw this today: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=135399

A 250 dollar couple for the flexview. This makes it much more affordable for me.

I had a 15.4 T60WS so the 15in 4:3 wouldn't be any heavier right? This is making the decision very tough. Wait for 15.4 T61 with discrete, wait to see if they will release 14.1 SXGA+ to the public, or just order a t60 with IPS? Any other comments?

SkiBunny · #15 Post by **SkiBunny** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:29 pm

chadwicktr wrote: A 250 dollar couple for the flexview. This makes it much more affordable for me.

I had a 15.4 T60WS so the 15in 4:3 wouldn't be any heavier right? This is making the decision very tough. Wait for 15.4 T61 with discrete, wait to see if they will release 14.1 SXGA+ to the public, or just order a t60 with IPS? Any other comments?

Two comments. First, the IPS is definitely the best screen. Yesterday at IBM, I carefully compared the new T61 15.4 side-by-side with a T60 flexview and a T60 4:3. The T61 15.4" was comparatively poor (brightest but uneven and harsh), the 4:3 was better (least bright but even lighting) and the flexview was the best (smooth, even, accurate colors, best contrast, and of course best viewing angles).

Second comment. I think the promotion is a gimmick, good only for basic configurations. Upgrades are not discounted. An upgraded machiine I configured online today cost more today than it cost last month. You cannot use the coupon on most discount sites like SPP, and the coupon does not apply to a T60p flexview.

There's a couple of flexviews I've seen in the marketplace forum that are better deals, i think. I have an new sealed extra one I got from IBM that I'll sell for less than this promotion (I should get around to listing it)

Since you asked... if it were me I'd get one of the flexviews before they're gone forever, unless you really need Santa Rosa or want the much-improved intel integrated graphics.

hoya · #16 Post by **hoya** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:59 pm

thank you!!! I was just about to pull the trigger on a T60p but the savings are too much to pass up on this. besides, I have no real reason for the fancy graphics card on the p model - the X1400 should be fine for my use.

chadwicktr · #17 Post by **chadwicktr** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:57 pm

SkiBunny wrote: Second comment. I think the promotion is a gimmick, good only for basic configurations. Upgrades are not discounted. An upgraded machiine I configured online today cost more today than it cost last month. You cannot use the coupon on most discount sites like SPP, and the coupon does not apply to a T60p flexview.

First, thanks for the reply... that was very helpful information.

Second... I don't find this to be a bad price for what I got:

1 2613CT CONFIGURED SYSTEM
07/13/07 $(deleted) $(deleted)
2613CTO LENOVO THINKPAD T60 2613 - NO CPU
42R9190 VBB NO INT.WIFI WL 3RD ANTENNA
62P6054 VBB INTEGR.BLUETOOTH PAN
42R9315 SBB INTEL CORE 2DUO PROC T7200
42V8010 VBB MS WIN VISTA BUSINESS
42T7210 SBB MS WINVISTA BUSS US ENG
42R9422 SBB 15.0-SXGA+ TFT.FV W/ WVA
42R9328 SBB ATIRADEON MOB. X1400 128MB
41W2057 VBB 512MB PC2-5300 667MHZ1DIMM
39T6476 SBB KEYBOARD US ENGLISH
27R0300 VBB INTEGR. FINGERPRINT SENSOR
41W1613 SBB ULTRANAV - TRACKP&TOUCHPAD
41W5780 SBB 100GB HDD 7200RPM
42T7312 SBB DVD REC8XMAX DUAL UBAYSLIM
41W1685 SBB 11ABGWIFI WL LAN USEULAANZ
41W1508 SBB 6 CELL LI-ION BATTERY
39T6442 SBB COUNTRY PACK NORTH AMERICA
27R1769 SBB PSTN CABLE
42T7337 SBB LANG PACK-ENGLISH
41W1601 SBB PACKAGING US 15
27R1540 SBB ATI LABEL
39T6440 SBB 56K V.92 DESIGNED MODEM
41W1711 SBB CLEAR PLATE T60 WLAN+BT
41W1721 SBB FCC LABEL
41W1749 SBB GEO LABEL US WLAN BT
41W1774 SBB LOGO PLATE
41W1738 SBB MT 2613 SYSTEM LABEL
42V7972 SBB MS LABEL (VISTA PREMIUM)
42T7135 SBB INTEL LABEL CORE-2
42V8063 SBB MS WAU ENGLISH NA-U MODELS
41W2070 SBB 512MB PC2-5300 667MHZ MEM.

EDIT: I should receive this pretty quickly (crosses fingers), but if I don't like it I will return and buy a T61 SXGA+ within 21 days of my invoice...

furrycute · #18 Post by **furrycute** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:22 pm

chadwicktr wrote: EDIT: I should receive this pretty quickly (crosses fingers), but if I don't like it I will return and buy a T61 SXGA+ within 21 days of my invoice...

And we all complain why Lenovo is talking such a long time to build our orders...

SkiBunny · #19 Post by **SkiBunny** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:22 pm

chadwicktr wrote:
SkiBunny wrote: I don't find this to be a bad price for what I got:

It's fabulous but that's with EPP, right? (i cant tell because U.S. EPP site is down now).
If so, you should delete the post because this forum prohibits showing any EPP price!

#20 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:44 pm

It has been deleted for him -- thanks catching that, SkiBunny.

SkiBunny · #21 Post by **SkiBunny** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:47 pm

yep it was definitely EPP pricing in the US

chadwicktr wrote:if I don't like it I will return and buy a T61 SXGA+ within 21 days of my invoice...

EPP is final sale - once it's shipped, there are no returns or refunds, period
(if you're an employee, i think you'd know that?)

Congratulations you now own a T60 flexview

chadwicktr · #22 Post by **chadwicktr** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:08 pm

SkiBunny wrote:yep it was definitely EPP pricing in the US

chadwicktr wrote:if I don't like it I will return and buy a T61 SXGA+ within 21 days of my invoice...
EPP is final sale - once it's shipped, there are no returns or refunds, period
(if you're an employee, i think you'd know that?)

Congratulations you now own a T60 flexview

That is what I've heard, but I've asked my rep and I have it in writing that that policy is no longer in effect.

If I chose to return my laptop within 21 days of invoice, I CAN return it, and I can return without a 15% restocking fee IF I buy another thinkpad of greater value.

#23 Post by **ZaZ** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:30 am

You should note they start the clock when the notebook ships, not when you receive it. It's more like two weeks.

SkiBunny · #24 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:51 am

They're so inconsistent. Last year I returned a thinkpad for a full refund, open & used, almost 3 months after shipping.

But beware, they can change their mind on a dime. Never mind what they told you or wrote in an email, in the end that's trumped by the contractual terms and conditions associated with your order.

chadwicktr · #25 Post by **chadwicktr** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:14 pm

Thanks all for the help on the decision. I received the notebook today and I love the flexview and 4:3 ratio.

Now time to upgrade the warranty...

hoya · #26 Post by **hoya** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:32 pm

I just received my 15" FlexView today and generally have a more favorable impression than I had 2 years ago.

as I remembered, the blacks are very black, colors are very accurate, viewing angles are the best I've ever seen, and the 4:3 ratio seems like a nice change from my 15.4" T60.

oddly enough, the 15.4" LG panel on my existing T60 seems brighter or at least much whiter than the flexview. I tried playing around with the settings in the ATI control panel but only made everything worse.

I'm heading to the post office to weigh both to see if there is a substantial difference in weight.

this will be a tough call and will most likely come down to which is easier on my eyes.

pianowizard · #27 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:57 pm

hoya wrote:oddly enough, the 15.4" LG panel on my existing T60 seems brighter or at least much whiter than the flexview.

That doesn't surprise me though. I've used five Flexview displays and none of them were particularly bright. I think my 14.1" T60's non-Flexview screen was brighter than all five of them.

Puppy · #28 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:20 pm

hoya wrote:Ithe 15.4" LG panel on my existing T60 seems brighter or at least much whiter than the flexview.

Brighter with no contrast. The black color is actually rather gray on such thing. Increasing brightness without corresponding contrast ratio has no point.

#29 Post by **gator** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:25 pm

Puppy wrote:Brighter with no contrast. The black color is actually rather gray on such thing. Increasing brightness without corresponding contrast ratio has no point.

Perfectly right ...

hoya · #30 Post by **hoya** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:55 pm

now that I've been using this FlexView for the past few hours it literally hurts my eyes to go back to my old LG 15.4" widescreen. everything seems so washed out that the text seems difficult to read. as Puppy said, the contrast on this FlexView is extraordinary.

I'm also finding that the Atheros 11b/g adapter works much better than the Atheros 11b/g/n adapter. it finds more networks, connects faster, and generally seems faster connecting to 11g access points.

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