Thinkpads Forum

aquarapid wrote:Generally, build quality is good. Not great, like the Thinkpads from yesteryear

Just curious, which Thinkpads from yesteryear are you comparing the T61 with?

aquarapid wrote: IMHO, these is just about zero difference in the portability of the T and the R.

Interesting, this is what I've been thinking. If I didn't care about some of the advanced options available on the T, the R would seem liks a [censored] good alternative right now. I've said it before, but again, I really with Lenovo spent the last 3 years making the T-series SMALLER and LIGHTER rather than bigger/heavier

aquarapid wrote:Leaving my biggest issue for last: The [censored] keyboard. The build quality is fine, but the Fn vs CTRL key layout???!! What were they thinking?

Yeah, Lenovo's obviously never heard of Fitt's law. I don't know why this reversed layout even exists.

Kenn wrote: Interesting, this is what I've been thinking. If I didn't care about some of the advanced options available on the T, the R would seem liks a [censored] good alternative right now.

I think R is the best bang for the buck compared to T now, esp since we'll see more options for ultrabay enhanced than ultrabay slim. The weight/thickness difference is very small to be bothered anymore, and R is cheaper too by ~$100 ... If I were to buy a T61/R61, I think I'll go with R.

Kenn wrote:Yeah, Lenovo's obviously never heard of Fitt's law. I don't know why this reversed layout even exists.

Well, it's not like it's a new layout. It's been like that for as long as I can remember, and I think the first one I ever saw or used was a 700 series around 1993-1995 (somewhere in there - I'm not good with dates, and I'm too lazy this afternoon to look it up).

As to why it's like that, I have no idea, but I suspect it may have had something to do with the way a 3270 terminal keyboard was laid out. It's been a long time since I've seen one, but I think the reset key was located where the CNTL key is now. I do remember that it was simple for me to transition to at the time, and IBM never did anything without a reason.

nonny wrote: Well, it's not like it's a new layout. It's been like that for as long as I can remember, and I think the first one I ever saw or used was a 700 series around 1993-1995 (somewhere in there - I'm not good with dates, and I'm too lazy this afternoon to look it up).

Yeah, my last Thinkpad was a set of 760CDs (obviously long time ago), but I almost always used them with docking stations and external keyboards, so I had forgotten that their layout was "defective". At the very least, I'd think Lenovo would be able to fix this now, being released from the IBM legacy

It might also have to do with the fact that I use Linux on my Thinkpad now, and it's probably quite a bit more CTRL-key-usage intensive....


PS: I seem to recall the PowerPC Thinkpads IBM produced (820?) had the "correct" keyboard layout....

aquarapid wrote:At the very least, I'd think Lenovo would be able to fix this now, being released from the IBM legacy

But then I'd have to adjust to a new layout!

Oddly enough, my work notebook is an HP (the one before that was a Dell), and my brain just automatically changes gears as I go back and forth between the different layouts. I'm much more interested in making certain the ins/del/home/end/pgup/pgdn and the cursor arrow blocks stay put. When I'm on a keyboard that has them arranged differently, I can't seem to find anything.

I bought my kids a 450 disposable gateway last year- it has the same layout- oddly enough...