Thinkpads Forum

Hey guys,

I just took delivery on a new T60p yesterday (I'm typing on it right now ), model 2623-DDU. I'm super-excited. I'm the current owner of a T42p 2373-KXU that also has the UXGA FlexView screen which I have put off on upgrading/replacing with a Core Duo model because I waited too long (I wanted a T60 refreshed with the Core 2 Duo option AND the UXGA FlexView; such a model was never released to my knowledge) and the UXGA FlexView was dropped as an option before I had a chance to make a purchase. I wasn't about to "downgrade" in the display department, so I decided to hold onto my T42p until Lenovo came out with a display I could get excited about.

I wasn't planning on making this laptop purchase; this is probably the most impulsive buying decision I've ever been guilty of. However, last weekend I stumbled across the thread from back in April about the 2623-DDU being offered on the Lenovo Outlet site. I guess someone at Lenovo found a stash of UXGA FlexView panels and decided to make one final, limited run of these machines. Of course, Lenovo had long been out of that model by the time I found this thread, but there were mentions in the thread of PC Mall having some in stock still.

I decided to investigate, and found that PC Mall did in fact have them listed for $1,889, which is apparently very close to the price that the Lenovo Outlet was selling theirs for when they had some, and is by itself an excellent price for what you get. But I also ended up Googling for "2623-DDU" and found that OnSale.com, which is just another store front for PC Mall (my order was in fact fulfilled by PC Mall), was selling the same model (from the same stock, of course ) WITH A $300 REBATE ATTACHED, but only if you ordered from OnSale.com instead of PC Mall / Mac Mall.

So, after mail-in rebate, I will only have paid $1,589 for this laptop, and since I live in ID, I didn't have to pay tax either!

Their website claims to still have some in stock, and the rebate is valid as long as you make your purchase before the end of July or until they run out of stock, so if you want a killer deal on a laptop model that is unlikely to appear brand-new on the market again, this is your chance. Mine came brand-new sealed-box with the full 3-year Lenovo warranty.

To answer some questions I'm sure some people will have:

The display is FRU 42T0345, just like the ones Lenovo shipped out for direct purchase from them in April-May, and PC Wizard 2007 shows it to be a model N150U3-L01, which Google confirms is IDTech-manufactured. I have no gripes about the display; it shows a little shadowing on the right-side (which, if you search for my old posts on this forum, you will find I made a big deal out of this in the past), but not nearly as much as either of the two IDTech panels that I've had installed in my T42p, and is brighter than my T42p. Interestingly, manufacture date of the panel itself is 1st week of '06. Finally, after careful inspection and scrutiny, I can say with complete certainty that there are 0 defective pixels (off or stuck).

Here is a rundown of the different components that can vary according to the Hardware Maintenance Manual, and which component I received. If this last batch of 2623-DDUs were all built at the same time, my guess is that they were probably built similarly:

- UXGA screen (BOE-Hydis or IDTech): IDTech
- Keyboard (NMB, Alps, Chicony): ALPS (I rather like it, too)
- DVD+RW drive (M a t s u s h i t a or Hitachi-LG): Hitachi-LG (yay!)
- 7.2KRPM 100GB HDD (Hitachi, Seagate): Seagate
- 9-cell Battery (Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic): Sanyo
- Power brick: Lite-On

Some other random observations:

My warranty lookup shows that I'm missing 3 months of warranty (ends 2010/April/09). I intend to call Lenovo about this; I've never purchased a ThinkPad other than direct from IBM so I'm wondering if retail-purchased warranties start on the date of manufacture and perhaps a proof-of-purchase is enough to entitle me to warranty service expiring 3 years from my date of purchase instead?

My Sanyo 9-cell is a little loose, but I'm not too concerned about it. My T42p also came with a Sanyo and was also a little loose, but it is not that big a deal.

My T42p ALSO came with an ALPS keyboard as well, and I actually liked it. This ALPS 'board in the T60p is even better, IMO.

The clear plate covering the LEDs below the screen now has a matte covering on it on the T60s instead of the glossy covering that all T4x models had in common.

Even though this model of T60p was introduced last year along with the introduction of the T60, the specific unit that I have has a few subtle styling changes present which were not originally a part of this model and were only introduced with the first T60 series refresh last autumn, when they announced the wide-screen models. I'm guessing this is because they were actually built this year. Such changes (compared to past 2623-DDU and other 'original' T60s) include the following:

- The LED strip below the display has the Lenovo logo next to the 'T60p' designation
- The clear plate on the BACK of the display cover is now matte as well instead of reflective
- The sticker on the bottom of the unit with all of the regulatory information on it now has the Lenovo logo on it and the IBM logo is completely absent (the first shipping T60s had the IBM logo here)
- The display release latch is now completely black, instead of being black and the arrow part being silver
- Old T4x and prior power bricks had the colorful slanted IBM logo; my understanding is that initial T60 bricks replaced that with the diagonal "ThinkPad" logo (sans "IBM"). My power brick has "Lenovo" molded into the plastic.

So, it is an early model T60p with late-model T60 and T61 styling. The top LCD cover and the keyboard palmrest both retain the colorful IBM logo, however. Too bad that even though it seems pretty obvious to me that these were really and truly built this year, Lenovo did not attempt to offer these beautiful screens on other models with Core 2 Duo or CTO options; I would have loved to realize my dream of a C2D laptop with this display. As it is, though, it sounds like I should be able to upgrade to a pre-Santa Rosa C2D CPU, so I will be looking into that option. Lenovo probably felt that the easiest and quickest way to clear out their inventory of these displays and get them into the hands of people who really want one was to simply re-offer a popular Express/TopSeller model from the past.

Like I said, OnSale/PC Mall still claims to have some left (although their web site does not say how many), so for all of you high-DPI FlexView/IPS fans out there who have been waiting to upgrade like I was, if you want a brand-new UXGA FlexView machine decked out with all the trimmings for the lowest price I've ever seen it re-sold for, I would recommend you go for it; I'm also guessing that this is the last time you will see these offered for sale ever.

I will probably also have to end up selling my beloved T42p , so keep your eyes peeled on the Marketplace forum if that interests you.

-- Nathan

UPDATE: I just checked, and it looks like PC Mall raised their price since my purchase! It is now $1,999 on pcmall.com and $1,969 on onsale.com. The $300 rebate is still valid, however, bringing the price down to $1,669 if you order from OnSale's site. Why PC Mall's price went up $110 while OnSale's only went up $80 is a mystery to me... *shrug*

EDIT #2: I forgot to include which hard drive shipped in the components information above.

Great find NathanA ...

Baby that T60p, and you will get many years of good service. I also have a T60p, and we have what may well be the last of the legendary Flexview displays. I upgraded my T60p a 64-bit C2D chip and a Seagate 160/7200 drive. I may soon go for the Hitachi 200/ 7200.

When you're ready to sell your T42p, please pm me. I may want to pick it up.

Okay, a few more things that I forgot to mention:

It also shipped with BIOS version 2.11 (79ETD1WW).

The Windows XP SP2 preload is from a recent Lenovo image as it came with IE7 already installed; IE7 was released last October, well after the 2623-DDU had been introduced.

I thought I remember reading that recent T60/61s were being preinstalled with Google Desktop, but the only Google app preloaded on my machine was Picasa. I wonder why I was missing this app if I was given a recent XPSP2 image. On another preload note, that Symantec garbage was the first thing to get canned.

Oddly, this machine does not (unlike my T42p, and I'm assuming unlike most other T60s since I see people still talking about this feature as if it exists) seem to have the parts lookup manifest stored in the machine anywhere. If I hit the ThinkVantage button, go to Help and Support and then Learn About My Computer, and then click on System Information, there is no Warranty and Parts button anywhere to be seen. Am I looking in the wrong place? Has it been moved? Most of the ThinkVantage stuff looks vastly different than its Access IBM heritage, so maybe it has simply been relocated...

My BIOS boot-up screen doesn't, unlike other Centrino model ThinkPads that I've seen (including T60s), have a Centrino logo in the top-right corner, just an Intel logo. I wonder if they accidentally put the wrong BIOS logo on mine...my T42p also doesn't have a Centrino logo on its boot-up screen, but that's because it is not a Centrino model (no Intel wireless).

Speaking of Centrino, I hate the Intel Mini-PCIe A/B/G card in this thing. When used by itself while talking to my OpenWRT-ified WRT54AG (Prism WorldRadio-based) access point, data transfer is slow, somewhat latent, and "bursty" (not sustaining data-flow). When both my T60p and T42p (Atheros a/b/g) are talking to it, after a while the AP locks up; I know this because BOTH laptops drop their association to the AP until I powercycle it. My first order of business on this machine, before any other hardware upgrades are attempted, will be to replace this sad thing with an Atheros a/b/g MPCIe card (big fan of Atheros anyway; I'd rather not have to use NDISWrapper under Linux when I get around to installing it in any case).

I really miss my T42p's S-Video out port already.

The Windows keys on the keyboard annoy me, but not as much as I feared they would. I discovered I rarely use the right-side Ctrl, and my left pinky instinctively already goes far enough to the left to hit Ctrl that I find I'm not accidentally bumping the Windows key. Although I'm sad they caved into the pressure to add them, the size that they made the Windows key was a good compromise.

I said before this screen was brighter. Well, this screen is really, really bright. I can't get over how bright it is compared to my old one. I don't know whether it's just that my T42p's CCFL backlight is getting old (2.5 years?) or whether IDTech made some improvements between when I purchased my T42p and this laptop's display was made, but the difference is quite stark when I put the two computers side-by-side. White is really WHITE.

Oh, what else is there to comment on...I had something else I thought I was going to say, but I'm sure it will come back to me later.

-- Nathan

RonS wrote:Baby that T60p, and you will get many years of good service.

Oh, trust me, I will. I've babied my current T42p (it's in excellent shape still), and I babied my ThinkPad 770 before that, which lasted me from the end of high school all the way through college and then some. Actually, my 770 still works just fine...it's in storage somewhere right now, though.

Loved that machine...best computer I ever owned (that is, until I bought the T42p!).

RonS wrote:I upgraded my T60p a 64-bit C2D chip [...]

Sweet. If I attempt it and have any questions or run into problems, I'll track you down then.

Have you (or anyone else) tried loading it down with 4GB of RAM and seeing whether a 64-bit OS is able to use all of it, or does the T60 genuinely have a hardware limitation preventing use of the last GB?

RonS wrote:When you're ready to sell your T42p, please pm me. I may want to pick it up.

I will keep that in mind once I'm ready. It may be a few days as I have something...special planned for it before I have to part with it. All will be revealed soon.

-- Nathan

I might be interested in the T42p too, keep me in line! )

And yeah, people have not had success with 4GB on the T60, it does not work with32 or 64 bit OS. There are fair amount of threads discussing that issue. Just do a search and you'll find 'em.

gator wrote:And yeah, people have not had success with 4GB on the T60, it does not work with32 or 64 bit OS.

Dang. There's just no such thing as a perfect ThinkPad, is there?

Oh well, at least this one is close to perfect.

Like I've said, I will probably post to the Marketplace forum if/when I'm ready to sell, but I will also be happy to PM anybody simultaneous to my public posting to alert them to the fact that it is now for sale. For now, though, and for the remainder of this thread, I will refrain from commenting about sales anymore (since it is off-topic in this forum) in order to appease the moderators.

-- Nathan

OH yes, NOW I remember that other thing that I was going to comment on...

In PC Wizard, my S.M.A.R.T. readings for the hard drive on the T60p indicate that it estimates its present health at "87%" while my 7K60 Hitachi in my T42p (which shipped with the machine) has S.M.A.R.T. readings at 99% health!

What do you all think? Possibly unhealthy drive or overly-conservative S.M.A.R.T. implementation on Seagate's part? Anybody else with a Seagate (old or new) that shows lower-than-expected estimated health on an otherwise functioning drive?

Is there any way to get a log from the drive of S.M.A.R.T. events that contribute to its overall score so I know whether or not there is anything to be concerned about? I don't want to start moving data over from my T42p only to have this drive fail on me suddenly...

-- Nathan

The IDTech panels used in these last T60P UXGAs, were originally converted T43p screens, converted by Lenovo with a different cable.
The panels used in these machine has been from the absolutely last batch of UXGA Flexview - they're from January 2006.
The IDtech staff and factory was sold to Sony in December 2005 and discontinued production of the panels, and now make small mobile phone displays etc.

You're right about that it is much brighter than the T42. I too have a T42 with a swapped in IDtech UXGA, and it is nowhere as bright as this 2623-DDU. I posted the direct comparison in the Lenovo Outlet thread you were talking about.
The funny thing is - the panels are the same revision, but i think the backlight and inverter is simply just beefier. The black levels are very identical.

Uh oh - if you don't have the centrino logo during boot up, either wireless is disabled, or what you have inside is not the 3945ABG.

I'm using my 2623-DDU with 3 GB of memory - this is the maximum addressable memory with it according to others. I believe it also depends on the PM945 chipset.

I'll test my Seagate drive and report back

Mine reports 69% health

That's very common for Seagate disc, to report around 50-70% while completely healty. I heard that on more places.

Ok you can go to sleep now...

I have the same model with 4gb (2 X 2gb). Windows reports 3gb as stated here before.

I have the Hitachi HTS721010G9SA00.

I like the keyboard better than my T43p.

The LCD appears nearly identical to me as my T43p.

I was suprised how much faster this appears to me than my T43p which has the 780 processor.

The memory is under the palm rest. Not hard to access but in a different spot than your T42p. My memory has a label with the FRU number and the date the ThinkPad appears to be assembled. When you get a chance what date is on that memory.

Congratulations on your new T60p.

Brad

Ok you can go to sleep now...

?????

Ok, so I have been intending to pick up a new TP on the current back-to-school sale, figured I would check the forums first (since my last T42 about 1 1/2 years ago I have been using MacBook Pro) before making a decision. Glad I did. After reading this thread I immediately ordered a 2623DDU from OnSale.com and unless their inventory system is messed up should receive it by the end of the week. My T42 wasn't a "P" model but it did have the good 14" Hydis 1400x960 (is that correct) display so I am pretty eager to see my new machine. New job isn't compatible with Mac so back to Windows I go!! Specs on the new TP and my current MacBook Pro are pretty similar except the TP is slightly higher res (same video RAM though) and 7200 rpm drive, will be interesting to see how they compare "feel" wise. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks, glad I managed to get in on the last of this great configuration.

I bought the "last" 2623 DDU from PCMALL about 5 weeks ago. I have put a Core 2 Duo (T7400) in it and added 2 GB of RAM to 3 GB total. The screen is excellent. I now have 200 GB Hitachi 7K200 drive but still running it on the 100 GB 7K100.

I have dual boot, XP and Vista 64 but most of my apps are on Vista side. The Vista 64 has been very unstable but with this second install, I am having better experience. I don't have anyting from Symantec on there this time. The very latest set of power and Access Connections from Lenovo seam better and I am careful to "Pause" the HP printer drivers when not on my own network.

Much of the instability was from the HP Officejet 6310 drivers labeled for Vista 64. They use tcp/ip on ethernet and when it can't find the printer it crashes the system.

Troels wrote:Uh oh - if you don't have the centrino logo during boot up, either wireless is disabled, or what you have inside is not the 3945ABG.

Trust me, I have an Intel 3945ABG. Says so right in Device Manager. I do not however have a Centrino boot logo. I wonder if that is just a quirk of this batch of DDUs...they loaded the wrong BIOS boot image.

Did you get your DDU from the April batch, or is yours an earlier unit?

Yeah, I remember hearing about the adapting of the old IDTech panels for T4x stock to fit the T60s, and about IDTech's demise/sale. A real shame.

Thanks for all your Seagate reports, everybody. I'll do some more research, but it sounds like the low(er) heath values are normal for Seagate drives.

-- Nathan

mikek5117 wrote:Anyway, just wanted to say thanks, glad I managed to get in on the last of this great configuration.

Awesome. Welcome to the UXGA FlexView owners' club.

Let us all know how you like it, and we should keep in touch about each other's rebates...that's the only part of this deal that potentially worries me. I haven't submitted mine yet, but will soon (very soon).

When you get it, it would be interesting to see your parts list as well, just for curiosity's sake.

-- Nathan

jgrobertson wrote:I bought the "last" 2623 DDU from PCMALL about 5 weeks ago.

LOL.

Though, when you think about it, it's interesting that they still seem to have access to so many units even though Lenovo is long sold out of them themselves. I shopped around even before I "bit" and made the purchase from them, and not too many other places have them, and most that do are saying "out of stock" so I assumed that they just still had them listed as a product in their inventory system from back when they were readily available/still in production.

-- Nathan

NathanA wrote:Did you get your DDU from the April batch, or is yours an earlier unit?

The April batch. The division over here could not get any UXGA T60ps at all, and even if they could it would literally cost an arm and a leg, so i was lucky someone was willing to ship one to me from Lenovo US.
The downside is that i can't use the CDMA network WWAN card over here, but i wouldn't have any use for it either.

About the centrino logo - ok, i'm definitely out of ideas then, it does sound like a mixup.

The reason why they still have the units is that they come from Lenovo directly, and they should be from around April 2007.

Someone in the Lenovo Outlet T60p thread mentioned that there were 189 units or something like that available. Sales were going steady, but at some point where one would think there were still hundred or so left (the thread was updated with amount of T60ps left), they dissaperead from the outlet.
So it sounds like someone ordered a large quantity, or reserved or something.

Though, when you think about it, it's interesting that they still seem to have access to so many units even though Lenovo is long sold out of them themselves.

I suspect that when the quantity got low, Lenovo sold the remaining units to PCMall at a good price for them.

FYI, Verizon Wireless returned the $75 rebate form and said the promtion was over however, clearly I did everything on time and as they requested.

NathanA wrote:Awesome. Welcome to the UXGA FlexView owners' club.

Let us all know how you like it, and we should keep in touch about each other's rebates...that's the only part of this deal that potentially worries me. I haven't submitted mine yet, but will soon (very soon).

When you get it, it would be interesting to see your parts list as well, just for curiosity's sake.

-- Nathan

Will do. Even without a TP I have kept in touch lurking in the forums, figured I'd get another one some day. My TP shipped today I will be OOT all week can't wait to get home Friday and play with my new baby. TP's are the only Windows machines that gets me excited, otherwise I'm Mac all the way. I have regretted getting rid of my last T42 so this will be fun. Again, thanks for doing such an awesome job of keeping on top of the market.

Hello. I am new to this forum and am considering ordering this laptop. However, I called Lenovo and IBM and both claim that this laptop is NOT Flexview. Are we sure that it is? How can one tell?
Thank you.
A thinkpad newbie

You can see it on page 57 of the tabook:
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitu ... tabook.pdf

Thanks for the reply. I had looked at the tabook but under the "display" category it says "Some:" before the listing for the flexview screens, so I thought this implied that only SOME of those screens were flexview. I'm also confused because the people at Lenovo told me on the phone that it didn't have flexview, but that doesn't correlate with this link either:

http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/products.nsf/ ... p/_2623DDU

This doesn't make any sense. Basically, I want to buy this laptop from www.onsale.com but only if it has flexview! Am I safe to buy it?

Thanks for your help.[/quote]

I don't believe there have ever been any non-Flexview UXGA screens ... and the original poster confirmed that the unit he received had the IDTech IPS display panel.

Thanks. Does anyone know why this particular unit with UXGA is cheaper than other units with lesser specs (RAM, etc.) on the www.onsale.com site? The UXGA system should be MORE expensive right? Doesn't make sense to me.

It is ABSOLUTELY a FlexView screen. The sales person you spoke do doesn't know what (s)he is talking about. There were never any non-FlexView UXGA screens offered on any ThinkPad model. You can confirm this for yourself by looking through the parts list of the Hardware Maintenance Manual.

As for the price, these are simply last year's models that I'm guessing they want to clear their stock of. It's simply that this model is "on sale" (har har!) and the others are not.

There also appears to be one other model (an R60 if I remember correctly) that has a similar rebate attached to it (same purchasing deadlines and such), but it is in the amount of $200.

-- Nathan

Is this UXGA screen really that mich better than the WUXGA screens on the T61p ?

wearetheborg wrote:Is this UXGA screen really that mich better than the WUXGA screens on the T61p ?

Depends. It is my opinion, and the opinion of many others, that IPS (called 'FlexView' by IBM/Lenovo) cannot be beat for wideness of viewing angle (in both horizontal and vertical axes) and color reproduction accuracy (photos look stunning). However, you pay for that with slow response/refresh time ("ghosting"), although I don't think it is as bad in the current (read: last) generation of ThinkPad FlexView panels. Also, some people (such as myself) aren't ready to be forced to switch over to widescreen laptops yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD <-- for more information on LCD technology and the differences between the different types (TN, IPS, etc.)

Also, besides all of that, you have to admit that the price given is a steal for a decked-out T60p. I certainly paid quite a bit more than $1,600 for my T42p when I bought that 2.5 years ago, for sure! The only areas where you would have to make a sacrifice going with this T60p instead of a WS WUXGA T61p are in that this is non-C2D (can be corrected with a drop-in processor upgrade), non-widescreen (which to some people is a feature), non-Santa Rosa (how much of an advantage SR gives or how much you might benefit from it is probably debatable), and is non-nVidia (THIS is probably where the biggest jump occured from the T60p to the T61p, so if you need the absolute fastest GPU available in a ThinkPad, then the T61p is probably the one you want, display or not).

Anyway, I'm happy with my choice and the opportunity to be able to own one of these for possibly the last time they will be offered as new. I just wanted to share and let others who know about IPS/FlexView know about this offer.

-- Nathan

Well perhaps LED displays will be better than Flexview ones

Well, those really aren't LED displays as such; they are conventional (inexpensive and relatively lower quality) TN panels with just an improved LED backlight. Viewing angles, for example, are just as limited as with traditional TN panels.