Thinkpads Forum

here's the link from another thread...

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... 97923A87A9

mdesantis wrote:I truly believe that if Lenovo would put a higher quality SVGA+ screen in the P version, it would not only help to differentiate the benefits of the P vs the regular, but would have the potential of being one of the most popular and finest versions of the T6x series available for enthusiasts

Unfortunately beliefs are not a good basis for assessing potential market performance.

Lenovo has made it clear that the 4:3 screen issue is primarily one of obtaining screens from their OEM suppliers, as the whole laptop buyers market has moved strongly to wide screen formats. Just how much of a premium price is the market prepared to pay to see 4:3 screens available into the future?

Cheers,

Bill B.

i customized my T61 14'' widescreen the way i wanted it and it came to about $1231. i did the same exact build , but with the 14'' standard and it came to $1359.
so for about $130 , you're getting from 1200x800 to 1400x1050.
(i hope thats correct).

i think its worth it, and i plan on ordering the standard screen.

Unfortunately beliefs are not a good basis for assessing potential market performance.

You're absolutely right Bill - it is really more of an opinion of what I think the enthusiast community (basically the types of people reading this forum) would appreciate. Mainly, the availability of a good quality screen (brightness / contrast) on a 14" 4:3 T61p model.

I totally recognize that most people probably don't understand or take the time to research the difference between the two screen styles. i.e. You don't see many people talking about the extra 150 pixels in the aisles of a Big Box Electronics store. And those same people might even buy the WXGA screen where the vertical height isn't that much different from XGA (1200 X 800 vs 1024 X 768). But, the rapid transformation of standard to widescreen that has occurred here has put those people in a position where they can't even compare because OEMS are pushing Widescreens (I've heard because there is more yield in cutting 16:9 / 16:10 rectangles rather than square 4:3 from the same lcd substrate) - hence my comment that the T61p I was suggesting or even the one that is available (that probably doesn't have that great of screen but haven't heard any direct reports about) would likely be the last 4:3 style that people might be able to purchase.

But just because Widescreens and Glossy Coatings are being installed on the majority of consumer laptops today doesn't mean that market forces or consumer opinion can't change. Those people may hate those glossy coatings and reflections and want to come right on back to matte screens. As long as people want them, some OEM LCD manufacturer will seize the opportunity. The question however, as you correctly stated, is at what cost.

-Matt

It is indeed a case of consumers being blindly lead by the cost-cutting desires of manufacturers. I frankly don't see any market forces involved in the rapid and almost universal conversion to widescreen format other than cost cutting by manufacturers.

I'm sure there are some people out there that like and need widescreens but the vast majority probably fall into the "don't care" or "don't want" category. Sadly the "don't cares" are easily duped by lame marketing that convinces them widescreen is cooler/better/newer/etc. That leaves the don't wants with fewer choices.

But we're OT here... at least 4:3 screens are still available for now and hopefully in the next few years some manufacturer, be it Lenovo or otherwise, will realize there's still a decent market for a standard ratio screen on a decent business-class laptop.

now that is odd, the T61p being offered in 4:3... on the website however it shows only 128 dedicated ram...

As of most them pointed out correctly, it is the marketing / market forces which try to steer the trends away from what might be good or bad in reality.

Marketing teams , operations analytics teams try to challenge the status quo, to make thier graphs look better ( whether it is in terms of numbers or $ ). To this effect they sometimes split the population into Test ( something new is tried on ) and control ( where they keep the same treatment as before ). If improvements are found they try to push it on to everyone.

I have seen people going for a "centrino processor" when they decide to buy a laptop, but in reality it is the same intel processor, it was a marketing trick played by Intel and people are taken for a ride. The average user does not understand that by buying a centrino system, one is gaining the supposed power saving and battery life due to a wireless card ( the processor and chipset being the same for centrino and non centrino systems).

In case of the LCD's all the manufacturer's decided to give less for the same amount of money instead of giving the same for higher price ( translates to less number of pixels ). This would beef up thier revenue charts, showing they cut manufacturing costs.

If everyone in the customer community had the same level of understanding and ability to decipher one product over another. They would not be able to ignore the end user opinion.

Liamo0o wrote:now that is odd, the T61p being offered in 4:3... on the website however it shows only 128 dedicated ram...

So what ? It's enough for games and 3D app in 1400x1050.

pianowizard wrote:It should be heavier than the 14.1" SXGA+ T60 due to the stupid display rollcage, right?

Even worse, the "stupid rollcage" makes it 10% thicker too. And the t61 has a crappy cheap plastic lid instead of the nice magnesium lid like before.

I notice that for only the 4:3 version of the t61 models, you cannot upgrade just the warranty.
Rather, you must get both the warranty and accident protection coverages

That's $280 for 3 years instead of $99.

yeah, that sucks... but use my link above for the 8889 model and it comes with a 3-year depot warranty as standard.

I don't get it. This time last year the choice for me was clear - a T60p. It had the best of everything.

Now there's a mix and match of concessions and compromises. It's as if it were ordained by some higher being that I never be able to buy the ThinkPad of my dreams.

Why can't they just stop pandering to the needs of the "market", and build me a laptop?

I'm referring to the inability to get 256MB models of the Quadro with the 4:3, and the inevitable fact that as soon as I buy one, they'll come out. Oh, and I'll get the crappy new logo.

14" 4/3 and 16/10 T61p both are aviable with 128 MB Quadro FX 570M. Only 15,4" can have 256 MB. This can be due to thermal or/and room considerations... Quadro do not use CSP form factor so memory chips need to be placed on the mainboard.