T61 only comes w/ 32 bit version os w/ NO Backup discs?

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jonnylaw · #1 Post by **jonnylaw** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:57 pm

Can anyone else w/ a T61 verify that it only comes w/ the 32 bit version of vista installed and there is no windows backup/restore cd's that come with the computer?

The odd thing is, the label on the box and the shipping invoice list (as installed on the laptop) both windows vista ultimate 32 , and (right below), windows vista ultimate 64. So the invoice says both is included, but this is not the case?

Is there a way to check whether the true oem windows key is only for a 32-bit version vista os and not the 64 bit version?

I have bought a retail copy of windows vista ultimate (which includes both 32 and 64 bit media dvds), but am waiting on opening it, in hopes that the windows oem key is both 32 and 64 bit, or if lenovo would ship a 64 bit vista os dvd upon request (why else is there both windows vista ult.32, and windows vista ultimate64. labeled on the shipping box and invoice?)

#2 Post by **ZaZ** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:33 am

I think it does come with the 32 bit versions though I don't know for sure. I don't know that 64 bit offers you much. Driver support isn't very good right now. ThinkPads haven't come with recovery media for quite some time. You have to burn them off from your machine,

ronan_zj · #3 Post by **ronan_zj** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:31 am

finding a DVD R and a CDR, you can burn ur own recovery CD. BUT, DO REMEMBER, these CDs will FORMAT ALL OF UR DATA.

Volker · #4 Post by **Volker** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:10 am

FredGarvin wrote:I don't know that 64 bit offers you much.

You need 64 bit to use 4GB ram. If you have less ram there is no point in using a 64 bit OS.

jonnylaw · #5 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:30 am

Exactly, I have 4 gigs of ram and want to utilize it--the invoice has a listing for vista ultimate64 below vista ultimate32, but only 32 bit version came installed on laptop w/ no backup discs. Is this a mistake on Lenovo's part, or has anyone sucessfully requested a 64 bit version vista/xp from Lenovo?

lundh · #6 Post by **lundh** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:00 pm

jonnylaw wrote:Can anyone else w/ a T61 verify that it only comes w/ the 32 bit version of vista installed and there is no windows backup/restore cd's that come with the computer?

The odd thing is, the label on the box and the shipping invoice list (as installed on the laptop) both windows vista ultimate 32 , and (right below), windows vista ultimate 64. So the invoice says both is included, but this is not the case?

Is there a way to check whether the true oem windows key is only for a 32-bit version vista os and not the 64 bit version?

I have bought a retail copy of windows vista ultimate (which includes both 32 and 64 bit media dvds), but am waiting on opening it, in hopes that the windows oem key is both 32 and 64 bit, or if lenovo would ship a 64 bit vista os dvd upon request (why else is there both windows vista ult.32, and windows vista ultimate64. labeled on the shipping box and invoice?)

My T61P was falsely specified to ship with Vista Ultimate 64 bit. It turned out to have the 32 bit version. When my retailer had investigated the matter, they told me that no T61's ship with the 64 bit version of Vista. (I got VU 64bit from them anyway, as that was what their product specifications said when I orded.)

Looking at the lenovo site for US it seems that you can order it with Vista Buisness 64 bit though.

#7 Post by **ryengineer** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:46 pm

jonnylaw wrote:snip.....the invoice has a listing for vista ultimate64 below vista ultimate32, but only 32 bit version came installed on laptop w/ no backup discs. Is this a mistake on Lenovo's part, or has anyone sucessfully requested a 64 bit version vista/xp from Lenovo?

Lenovo does not ship systems with any Product Recovery disks and expects you to create one yourself before you do some experimentation on your machine.

To create one, do this:

Start > All programs > Thinkvantage > Create Recovery Media.

Make sure you don't use DVD-RAM for Rescue Media at all and don't use the same media to burn the first disk of Product Recovery disk.

More inside details as to why it's not included physically, can be found here.

Vista Ultimate 64 is a misprint on your invoice and you cannot request any Product Recovery disk from lenovo for a license other than the one that came with your machine.

jonnylaw · #8 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:59 pm

I understand that Lenovo no longer provides recovery discs, and I manually made them.

But...

Regarding the "misprint", imo this is unacceptable. This "misprint" indicating that my configured shipment would include vista ultimate 64 appeared both on a order-confirmation page, a pre-delivery invoice, and on the actual shipping invoice, which states, "The following is installed on your machine....MSWIN VULT64 US English.

This "misprint" if it is one, was misprinted 3x and imo, this is a "mistake" that Lenovo should pay for or proivide a solution for me.

I relied on their representation that the machine would have vista 64 bit ultimate on it, I verified that this was the case w/ the shipping invoice before I opened the computer. Then, when I open the computer, no 64 bit vista. Now, a restocking fee would apply if I wanted to return the computer (which I don't I just dont want to pay $400 for a mistake that Lenovo made).

An unlucky lenovo rep will recieve an earful from me on monday--and if no resolution is reached, I will be filing a formal complaint.

This is not the way to conduct a business--everyone, including companies, make mistakes, but when these mistakes are material to the purchase and customers rely on them, the company must take responsibility. My .02.

#9 Post by **ryengineer** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:14 pm

I don't think lenovo would accommodate your original concern however the chances of compensation are very good, as a token of what you've experienced they might waive your restocking fee. This is how I would've looked at your situation, a rep could've another viewpoint.

Secondly, lenovo specifically mentions on it's website which versions are 64 bit with "64" aside available ones.

jonnylaw · #10 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:52 am

Thank u for the reply. I do see what you mean in the link you provided, however when I ordered my computer 5 weeks ago, the t61p was not available-only the t61 could be configured and there was no 32 bit/64 bit distinction at the time I ordered. So I'm out $500 if i want to now run 64 bit vista ultimate-wasted 100 thinking the upgrade would be 64 bit when configuring plus 400 for retail version. At the very least I feel I should be refunded the 100 bc I would have just gotten vista basic if I knew that I would have to buy a full retail version of vista ultimate to get in running on my t61.

I guess I'll just have to wait to see what happens when I call on Monday

barrywohl · #11 Post by **barrywohl** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:02 am

I might be wrong, but I think Vista Ultimate includes the choice of running 32 bit or 64 bit. You might have to download the 64 bit version or buy the media dvds, but I think the Ultimate license includes a license to run either 32 or 64 bit.

I plan to find out after my Ultimate 32 bit T61p arrives.

jonnylaw · #12 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:20 am

is the t61p with 256mb nvidea only available on the 15.4 inch screen?in other words is the only difference between the t61 and t61p is screen size and video card (128 vs 256)? Everything else can be configured the same correct?

Does the p just designate a high end parameter choice of configuration ?

kelchm · #13 Post by **kelchm** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:22 am

barrywohl wrote:I might be wrong, but I think Vista Ultimate includes the choice of running 32 bit or 64 bit. You might have to download the 64 bit version or buy the media dvds, but I think the Ultimate license includes a license to run either 32 or 64 bit.

I plan to find out after my Ultimate 32 bit T61p arrives.

The following is what I've drawn from personal experience with Vista media and keys...

1. There are only two types of disks. 32bit, and 64bit. Each of these disks can install any version of Vista [Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Ultimate]
2. You can install any version of Vista without a cd key and use it for 30 days.
3. A 32bit license can be used for the 64 bit equivalent of the same version [and vice versa].

Now, I have no idea how much of this holds true with a Lenovo back up disk.

#14 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:46 am

barrywohl wrote:I might be wrong, but I think Vista Ultimate includes the choice of running 32 bit or 64 bit.............. Snip

kelchm wrote:Snip............3. A 32bit license can be used for the 64 bit equivalent of the same version [and vice versa].

These statements are not true for lenovo oem license. Please see this and this.

kelchm · #15 Post by **kelchm** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:06 am

ryengineer wrote:These statements are not true for lenovo oem license. Please see this and this.

If that is the case, then the Lenovo OEM license differs from other Vista OEM licenses.

Have you actually tried this yourself?

#16 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:55 am

kelchm wrote: If that is the case, then the Lenovo OEM license differs from other Vista OEM licenses. Have you actually tried this yourself?

It is not possible by any legal means. Retail versions possesses the ability to have both licenses but oem (specifically lenovo' oem) does not. All the licenses lenovo are shipping with thinkpads are 32 bit unless otherwise explicitly mentioned and one machine cannot have two oem licenses.

kelchm · #17 Post by **kelchm** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:01 am

ryengineer wrote:
kelchm wrote: If that is the case, then the Lenovo OEM license differs from other Vista OEM licenses. Have you actually tried this yourself?
It is not possible by any legal means. Retail versions possesses the ability to have both licenses both oem (specifically lenovo' oem) does not. All the licenses lenovo are shipping with thinkpads are 32 bit unless otherwise explicitly mentioned and one machine cannot have two oem licenses.

Micrsosoft does not explicitly state it, but the fact is that the license keys for Vista OEM work for both 32bit and 64bit. It's all a matter of what media you are using. I'm fairly confident that a Lenovo license could be made to work with 64bit.

#18 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:38 am

kelchm wrote:Micrsosoft does not explicitly state it, but the fact is that the license keys for Vista OEM work for both 32bit and 64bit. It's all a matter of what media you are using. I'm fairly confident that a Lenovo license could be made to work with 64bit.

Microsoft sold the oem license to lenovo. Their business is done and they won't be cooperating with you if you give them a call.

Now for a (lenovo) user to make use of this license, lenovo provides Product Recovery disks. At lenovo these recovery disks are specially marked either as 32 or 64 bit since they are two different licenses. If you call lenovo they can only send the recovery disks for the corresponding license your machine came with, sending something else can get lenovo into legal issues with Microsoft.

Secondly, a user can buy an oem installation media to make use of the oem license on the back of the notebook and it will only respond to the version it was intended to be bought from lenovo. Also, doing so will lock the oem license for future use and calling Microsoft will do no help as they would advise you to contact lenovo for Product Recovery disks.

Lastly, as I said before there is no way of doing it keeping piracy laws in consideration.

kelchm · #19 Post by **kelchm** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:22 am

ryengineer wrote:Microsoft sold the oem license to lenovo. Their business is done and they won't be cooperating with you if you give them a call.

Why would you need their help in the first place?

ryengineer wrote: Now for a (lenovo) user to make use of this license, lenovo provides Product Recovery disks. At lenovo these recovery disks are specially marked either as 32 or 64 bit since they are two different licenses. If you call lenovo they can only send the recovery disks for the corresponding license your machine came with, sending something else can get lenovo into legal issues with Microsoft.

What lenovo provides is irrelevant, the only important thing is te license key.

ryengineer wrote: Secondly, a user can buy an oem installation media to make use of the oem license on the back of the notebook and it will only respond to the version it was intended to be bought from lenovo. Also, doing so will lock the oem license for future use and calling Microsoft will do no help as they would advise you to contact lenovo for Product Recovery disks.

If you own the license, you are perfectly within bounds to download an oem disc via torrent, etc. Furthermore, while OEM licenses are limited to installation on the first system on which it is installed, that does NOT mean you are locked into using 32bit vs 64bit.

#20 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:40 am

kelchm wrote: What lenovo provides is irrelevant, the only important thing is te license key.

Sir, lenovo is not giving away sweets with toffee to customers and neither Microsoft is, thus far the most oem licenses lenovo bought from Microsoft are only for 32 bit Vista OS.

Oem and retail licenses are very different in nature and 32 bit oem does not allow you to get 64 bit out of it.

jonnylaw · #21 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:07 pm

On a side note, I checked the parts on my configured system, and the displauy is:

42T0406

This is LG correct? and is considered "better" than the samsung?

Also keyboard is Alps: 42T3209 is this good maker?

Also hard drive is seagate: 39T2799--this is good too?

And dvd drive is HLDS (GSA-U10N UBSS): 39T2829--this good too?

#22 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:17 pm

jonnylaw wrote: This is LC correct? and is considered "better" than the samsung? Also keyboard is Alps: 42T3209 is this good maker?

Correct. In T61/p LG-Philips is far better than Samsumg panels.

Yes, clicky Alps is very good keyboard and Seagate produces one of the best HDDs.

kelchm · #23 Post by **kelchm** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:23 pm

ryengineer wrote:Oem and retail licenses are very different in nature and 32 bit oem does not allow you to get 64 bit out of it.

Oh, but you can install 64bit with a 32bit key. I know because I've personally done it 10+ times. Right now on my personal system, I'm using 64bit, with a serial that came with 32bit Vista Home Premium. It also works the other way around, a friend of mine has installed 32 bit with the serial that came with his copy of OEM Bussiness 64bit.

jonnylaw · #24 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:29 pm

ryengineer wrote:
jonnylaw wrote: This is LC correct? and is considered "better" than the samsung? Also keyboard is Alps: 42T3209 is this good maker?
Correct. In T61/p LG-Philips is far better than Samsumg panels.

Yes, clicky Alps is very good keyboard and Seagate produces one of the best HDDs.

Thanks Ryengineer! I feel better about my purchase now!
You don't hink lenovo will put a better graphics card than the nvidia nvs151 into the 14 inch widescreen size do you (the nvidia w/ 256 mb is likely only to be available on the T61 which obnly comes in the widescreen size of 15.4 inches and not 14 inches?

jonnylaw · #25 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:31 pm

kelchm wrote:
ryengineer wrote:Oem and retail licenses are very different in nature and 32 bit oem does not allow you to get 64 bit out of it.
Oh, but you can install 64bit with a 32bit key. I know because I've personally done it 10+ times. Right now on my personal system, I'm using 64bit, with a serial that came with 32bit Vista Home Premium. It also works the other way around, a friend of mine has installed 32 bit with the serial that came with his copy of OEM Bussiness 64bit.

How to do this? If this is true, then I will be returning my unopened retail version of ultimate which costed $400. Do I just need a vista ultimate 64 installed cd? Is this only available via download (border-line piracy?)

#26 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:45 pm

kelchm wrote:Oh, but you can install 64bit with a 32bit key. I know because I've personally done it 10+ times. Right now on my personal system, I'm using 64bit, with a serial that came with 32bit Vista Home Premium. It also works the other way around, a friend of mine has installed 32 bit with the serial that came with his copy of OEM Bussiness 64bit.

A lenovo oem 32 bit OS license allowing you to install 64 bit OS? that is impossible. I will give you the results straight from lenovo lab in a week or so.

kelchm · #27 Post by **kelchm** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:52 pm

jonnylaw wrote:How to do this? If this is true, then I will be returning my unopened retail version of ultimate which costed $400. Do I just need a vista ultimate 64 installed cd? Is this only available via download (border-line piracy?)

I can't garuntee it will work with the Lenovo OEM liscese, but I know for a fact it has worked with the OEM copies of Vista I have bought. BTW, you really are wasting your money by going with Vista Ultimate Retail. Get Business OEM or Home Premium OEM (if for some reaosn you can't get this to work.)

Anyway, downloading the media isn't even borderline piracy. You own the license, and so long as you only install the software on one machine your in-bounds. Technically you should have more than one main copy and a 'backup' as well.

As I said before, find a friend with the 64bit media, or simply download it via a torrent. Also, remember that it doesn't matter if the media you get is labeled 'OEM' or 'Retail', as they are both the same. Additionally, it doesn';t matter what version its labeled as because all the discs [except for the VL discs] are capable of installing Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate.

Heres an excerpt from wikipedia that goes into more detail...

There are four different Vista DVDs available in non-emerging markets: Retail/OEM 32-bit, Retail/OEM 64-bit, VL (Volume Licensing) 32-bit and VL 64-bit. All editions of Windows Vista except Enterprise are available from a Retail/OEM DVD. It is the license key purchased that determines which version will be installed; the VL DVD can only install Business or Enterprise edition. The features of the Home Premium and Ultimate editions may be "unlocked" at any time by purchasing a one-time upgrade license through a Control Panel tool called Windows Anytime Upgrade. The Business edition will also be upgradable to Ultimate. Such licenses will be sold by Microsoft's partners and OEMs, but not directly by Microsoft.

kelchm · #28 Post by **kelchm** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:54 pm

ryengineer wrote:A lenovo oem 32 bit OS license allowing you to install 64 bit OS? that is impossible. I will give you the results straight from lenovo lab in a week or so.

I never really said that a Lenovo OEM liscense would work. I just said that I know for a fact that all the OEM liscneses I've dealt with have been 32/64 universal.

The real test is whether the license key will work with a standard disk or not. I'm confident that if it will work with a standard 32bit disk, it will work with a standard 64bit disk.

#29 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:08 pm

jonnylaw wrote:You don't hink lenovo will put a better graphics card than the nvidia nvs151 into the 14 inch widescreen size do you (the nvidia w/ 256 mb is likely only to be available on the T61 which obnly comes in the widescreen size of 15.4 inches and not 14 inches?

Actually there is alot going on at lenovo lately. There are few more models available which haven't been unleashed at consumer level yet. So when the decision makers make a move, models like T61p 14.1 and T61 with nVidia FX 570M 128MB will be released.

kelchm wrote:The real test is whether the license key will work with a standard disk or not. I'm confident that if it will work with a standard 32bit disk, it will work with a standard 64bit disk.

Please see this thread about the implementation of lenovo license key. This key will work with only oem installation media regardless of 32 or 64 bit disk but since the license determines the version so it will only allow you to install 32 bit version. Again this strictly applies to lenovo oem licenses.

jonnylaw · #30 Post by **jonnylaw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:46 pm

ryengineer wrote:
Actually there is alot going on at lenovo lately. There are few more models available which haven't been unleashed at consumer level yet. So when the decision makers make a move, models like T61p 14.1 and T61 with nVidia FX 570M 128MB will be released.

Do you have any idea when this would occur? Do you mean fx570m 256b? This could be a choice for 14.1 widescreen or standard? The upcoming t61p 14.1 will bve widescreen or standard?

Can you give any more info on this? Aprroximately when these new models might sprought up?

T61 only comes w/ 32 bit version os w/ NO Backup discs?

T61 only comes w/ 32 bit version os w/ NO Backup discs?

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