Thinkpads Forum

generalsu wrote:

pae77 wrote:Is Call of Duty 4 considered 3d graphic intensive enough to be a test for this problem?

Never heard it and never played it before, so I have no idea.

As I said before, you don't need a 3D intensive game or application to test your laptop for reliability problems. The BurnInTest 3D graphics test will do just fine, at least on my machine it did.

Well that explains it. It doesn't seem like you're a very active member of the gaming community.
CoD4 will do just fine. Any 3D game, mostly FPS's, released in the last year or so will stress your computer plenty.

Hey anybody want to look into an interesting possibility?

Now this is a long shot but... hear me out...

OK I have had 2 T61P's in my hands that had this graphics issue.

Both of them have a little rubbery pad under the keyboard that was off center. Here is a picture showing what I mean:

Ignore the red circle, look where the pink arrow is pointing:

http://jerry.cleedo.com/thermalpad.jpg

OK see how the purple rubbery pad is the same shape as the metal object it sits on, but it's not centered? It's shifted to the right.

Well, both the "bad" laptops I have seen had this pad shifted just like that. However, when I got a NEW T61P that appears to NOT have this problem, I took off the keyboard and guess what? The pad is not shifted, it is perfectly centered!

So, if anyone is not afraid to take off the keyboard and check this (it's pretty easy, if you have accessed your RAM before, to take the keyboard off only requires unscrewing 1 extra screw on the bottom, the one with the keyboard picture by it, near the middle of the bottom).

I would be very curious to hear from those of you who have this issue, whether your pad is offset or not, and those of you who don't have this problem as well.

Those who had the problem fixed at the depot, you don't count, because the depot guys might have straightened the pad, which means nothing.

The only reason I'm curious about this is because I just wonder if there was some issue with the assembly line that has been since corrected, or something like that, just wondering if there is any correlation between the shifted pad and the graphics issues. If there is a correlation, it might provide an easy way to identify which laptops have the problem and which don't.

EDIT: Removing the palm rest and / or keyboard does NOT void your warranty. I am 100% sure of that.

Pocket Aces wrote:

generalsu wrote: Never heard it and never played it before, so I have no idea.

As I said before, you don't need a 3D intensive game or application to test your laptop for reliability problems. The BurnInTest 3D graphics test will do just fine, at least on my machine it did.

Well that explains it. It doesn't seem like you're a very active member of the gaming community.
CoD4 will do just fine. Any 3D game, mostly FPS's, released in the last year or so will stress your computer plenty.

Why should I be active in the gaming world? Just because you say so? Some games are 3D intensive while others are not. But since you don't read, I'll be nice and repeat it here: BurnInTest will adequately stress your system particularly with the issue we are talking about in this thread. You don't need any fancy games like Call of Duty 4 or any FPS just to find out. The games I suggested above are just that, suggestions. There's no need to odd this and odd that. If you think those games are odd, don't try them. Simple!

When I was having this problem, the PC Burn-in 3d graphs test always caused the crash, even though it was only stressing my GPU, not my CPU or anything else.

Hellbore wrote:When I was having this problem, the PC Burn-in 3d graphs test always caused the crash, even though it was only stressing my GPU, not my CPU or anything else.

I centered the "purple pad" on my system and the BurnInTest still crashed. I don't think the purple pad has anything to do with 3D graphics and memory issue.

Sorry about the epic post, but I'm only trying to help.

I initially stumbled across this "graphics+populating both DIMM slots" problem when I first tried to install an external video card into the advanced dock. (BTW, I carefully removed some plastic supports within the adv dock to accomodate the cards and the external power cable.)
Here are my symptoms whenever both DIMMs are populated in any combination of 1GB or 2GB SODIMMS:
1. With any vid card in the dock, the initial IBM/Lenovo BIOS/POST screen was garbled red and grey static (I could get this to not appear by configuring bios to perform post in "Diagnostics" vs "Quick" boot mode).
2. Vista Ult 64 would then boot, but the 8600 GTS in the Adv Dock would cause a "Code 12" in Device Manager on PCI Express Root Ports 3,4, & 5.
3. I replaced the 8600 GTS w a Quadro FX 3500/4000, but this caused Code 12 on the T61p 570M itself.
4. I tried Vista Ult 64 & 32, just about every 64 & 32 driver I could find, and just about every bios and Windows configuration to disable any and everything else to get rid of the Code 12s. Only removing one DIMM would work--and it worked very well.
When I removed any one SODIMM, all of these symptoms disappeared and I could boot from the 570M, and after Vista Ult 64 booted, I could drive my pair of ViewSonic 2030bs with either of the external cards and even keep my 15.4" display driven by the 570M. Three screens at once--stable.

Interestingly, I tried configuring the bios to boot via "PCI Express" video with each of the ext vid cards. Whenever both DIMM slots were populated, I got a Phoenix Bios beep sequence (that I didn't write down--I could do this) but no display, no POST, no boot. Both cards gave the same result. When I removed one SODIMM, the 8600 GTS would boot all the way into Vista via the 2030bs (disabling the 570M), but I never got the Quadro 3500 to boot via the "PCI Express".

I had convinced myself that it was a memory addressing problem between the extended RAM and the video cards RAM. I imagined that a solutoin could probably be handled via a BIOS update alone. I called Lenovo tech support & they were the ones that hinted to me that it might be a motherboard issue & suggested that I surf this site.

After reading much of the T6x posts, I downloaded Crysis demo. Sure enough, with one DIMM slot populated, Crysis 64 is stable. With both DIMM slots populated, BSDs within minutes of gameplay--even when all textures etc. are set to low.

I also looked under the keyboard; sorry, the thermal pad is centered perfectly so that telltale is not a 100% sure-fire way to identify a "good" T61p.

I wish I was posting a solution, but maybe my symptoms at least hint toward a root cause. I definitely feel that it is at least a BIOS issue, but probably also a hardware/recall issue. And whenever a root cause seems elusive to me, I've always found out eventually that it was a combination of problems; so I'm with most of you--it's probably BIOS AND hardware.

Thanks everyone for putting up with my epic post. I hope it helps.

MOD EDIT: Do not duplicate post. Your other post has been deleted.

The fact that you reported this should give Lenovo more of a reason to find a solution to this nasty issue as soon as possible. Next time when I call tech support in Atlanta, I don't want to be hearing something like "Your system isn't designed to play games".

I totally agree that this should have been made a recall a long time ago.

generalsu wrote: I totally agree that this should have been made a recall a long time ago.

Exactly, "we couldn't reproduce the problem" is not a valid excuse while many of their consumers report the same symptons. The fact that this problem is so wide spread should have alarmed lenovo a long time ago. Similar problem has been come and gone with T60. If they keep being silent about the issue, I'm afraid it will do more harm to their reputation than an honest product recall. I'm sure all my friends have heard about it by now and I certainly posted a thread on my company's internal IT forum and called the purchasing department.

Do we have any Lenovo checking this thread? ( My laptop has been in depot for 4 days, but they could not provide me an update. My earlier call to them with a rep is not responsive and rude. (.

I have thought Lenovo would carry on the tradition from the Big blue, but big mistake.

Sorry for the rant guys.

Remember they promised me an onsite repair and gave me a call in 2 days? I haven't heard from Lenovo since!

huytrang90 wrote:Do we have any Lenovo checking this thread? ( My laptop has been in depot for 4 days, but they could not provide me an update. My earlier call to them with a rep is not responsive and rude. (.

I have thought Lenovo would carry on the tradition from the Big blue, but big mistake.

Sorry for the rant guys.

Well one thing you gotta know is that the EasyServ Repair service is now outsourced to Solectron. So if you aren't getting the big blue experience, that is exactly the reason why. Now I am not saying Solectron is an inefficient company. I have never used their services so I have no comments on them, but then again, according to many sources from various forums and newsgroups, the IBM EasyServ has recently been extremely unreliable and delays are inevitable. This is the reason why I have not sent in my Thinkpad to repair plus Mark from Lenovo told me that the new motherboards for the T61/p are being backordered from Intel by the repair center so thus the additional delays.

As I said in my previous posts, I have volunteered to send in my system to the research center at IBM for testing and repair. Lenovo promised me a 3 day repair time, so that certainly beats sending my system over to Solectron. According to Lenovo, the new motherboard is now being ordered and should arrive tomorrow at the latest.

And to answer your question, The Lenovo people checking this thread are not the ones repairing your system unless I am missing something here.

I have the problem on a T60p (see that post for it).

My problem was mainly playing WoW at 1400x1050 BUT since today I came up with a solution to the problem (crashes, very hot running laptop).

First of all, see my other thread on the drivers I use: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=24893

This might also work with the "normal" drivers provided by Lenovo/ATI or via Windows update:

Go to the ATi control center and hit PowerPlay.
Next set it to balanced.

That did the trick for me after numerous crashes. It runs cooler and I just did 3 instance runs without a crash/hang or whatever.

Hope this works for you guys as well! (please let me know)

I'm with you MWSPEARS... Since it is a memory issue I think it may be able to be resolved with a BIOS update. We just need to give Lenovo some time and pray they are actually working on it. For the moment my laptop is working with two sticks in it, but it doesn't with 4gb, which is what I want to eventually upgrade to. So in the meantime I'll wait with my 2GB in my system until they make a fix or announce a recall.

mwspears wrote:...I definitely feel that it is at least a BIOS issue, but probably also a hardware/recall issue. And whenever a root cause seems elusive to me, I've always found out eventually that it was a combination of problems; so I'm with most of you--it's probably BIOS AND hardware.

Sorry to hear it's been going slow for you.
If it's any help I sent my laptop on a Tuesday and got it back on a Thursday. So I was basically without it for two days.

huytrang90 wrote:Do we have any Lenovo checking this thread? ( My laptop has been in depot for 4 days, but they could not provide me an update. My earlier call to them with a rep is not responsive and rude. (.

I have thought Lenovo would carry on the tradition from the Big blue, but big mistake.

Sorry for the rant guys.

Lenovo.com just launched their own forums at:

http://forum.lenovo.com/

Perhaps some Lenovo guys will look at the problem more seriously there than here.

generalsu wrote:Perhaps some Lenovo guys will look at the problem more seriously there than here.

Lenovo is already looking at it seriously. Don't they have your system to use for testing?

Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt to lay out the problem in a calm, productive manner in the forum there as well so that users who don't frequent either this forum or NBR will see the information.

You are the lucky one biohazard2k. I've been calling everyday, but no answer to what has happenned to mine. It is now 4 biz days. I'm praying that this may be the only time I have to ship it in to fix it.

biohazard2k wrote:Sorry to hear it's been going slow for you.
If it's any help I sent my laptop on a Tuesday and got it back on a Thursday. So I was basically without it for two days.

huytrang90 wrote:Do we have any Lenovo checking this thread? ( My laptop has been in depot for 4 days, but they could not provide me an update. My earlier call to them with a rep is not responsive and rude. (.

I have thought Lenovo would carry on the tradition from the Big blue, but big mistake.

Sorry for the rant guys.

nonny wrote:

generalsu wrote:Perhaps some Lenovo guys will look at the problem more seriously there than here.

Lenovo is already looking at it seriously. Don't they have your system to use for testing?

Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt to lay out the problem in a calm, productive manner in the forum there as well so that users who don't frequent either this forum or NBR will see the information.

Not yet, I am still waiting for the box to arrive. They should be exchanging the motherboard tomorrow I hope.

well I bought my 6459-cto about 2 months ago, it was delivered at the beginning, and about two weeks into operation i decided to install a game. lo and behold i got the problems described in this thread. I called lenovo and they set up a repair, i sent it in last wedsnday and i got it back yesterday. the exact same problem still occurs!

Ive tried to play Rome total war, MEdieval 2 total war and oblivion. all have the freeze or shut down problem...folowing the advice in this thread i removed one of the ram sticks(had the 4gb dual channel) and now it works beautifully. called lenovo today and they want me to switch this ram card with the one i took out ot make sure its not just a bad ram stick. In all likelihood this comp will be going back to the shop tomorrow. hopefully for a mobo replacement.

well i just got off the phone with tech support again, theyre sending me a box again for now my second repair attempt. The guy i talked to on the phone was VERY helpful, spoke clearly, understood the issues, in fact he even asked about this forum and i gave him the link to this thread here because he wasnt finding many similar issues in his database.

he said their sending my laptop to a higher tier of support than the normal one, whatever that means, and that they will definitely be replacing the Mobo. Heres to hoping it works! glad someone at lenovo has their head on straight

I was suppose to be getting a box for a shipment to the RTP on December 5th, but it never arrived. I hope they are not as unreliable as Solectron.

I have noticed these two Microsoft Vista hotfixes KB938194 and KB938979
- http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938194
- http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938979

None of them are offered as an update by System Update.

things to notice for KB938194:
• The computer stops responding, and you receive a "Display driver stopped responding and has recovered" error message. You can restart the computer only by pressing the computer's power button.
• The computer stops responding or restarts unexpectedly when you play video games or perform desktop operations.
• There are stability issues with some graphics processing units (GPUs). These issues could cause GPUs to stop responding (hang).
• Visual appearance issues occur when you play graphics-intensive games.


things to notice for KB938979:
• Poor memory management performance occurs.


I will install both of them (in that sequence) and see if anything changes when running 3D intensive apps.

quick response... both hotfixes will not install because they say:
"The update does not apply to your system"

I do have Vista Ultimate 32 and downloaded the Vista x86 packages.

I noticed those two hot fix once I started searching for the solutions over the internet. Just like you said, they won't install on my thinkpad either, I had the same message as you did.

yes... I think those updates are for NVIDIA GeForce cards but not for the Quadro mobile ones

Well my laptop has been at the Atlanta depot for 6 business days now, and it looks like the earliest they can ship it out would be tomorrow. They have pretty much replaced the entire laptop, from the ram, to the motherboard, and now tomorrow hopefully the harddrive. Apparently when they replaced the motherboard they expected that it would be in working shape, but it failed the burnin test and now they are replacing the hard drive. I hope they didnt just put in another defective mobo

Man, I think Lenovo would lose lots of money for this problem!

Finally, an update!

I think I placed my service request on Friday, November 16, 2007. I told the tech person that my laptop would crash or simply shutdown altogether during graphics-intensive (3D) tasks and games. She asked for specific programs, so I mentioned the 3Dmark06 and BioShock demos, merely because they were readily available and did not require a CD to run.

In just a few days, they had a box to me (so I could send the laptop in to the depot). Admittedly, I sat on it (figuratively) for a few days, trying to decide whether to send it back or just use the machine with one stick of RAM. I ended up sending it in after all, and within a few more days it was being repaired. Today, I received my T61p back from the depot with a note explaining that the planar card was replaced. It works splendidly as far as I can tell - it doesn't crash under load anymore, and, better, all of my data and virtually all of my settings were left intact.

So in summary, I placed a service request November 16, 2007 and received my machine back, fixed, on December 6, 2007. Most of that time was spent waiting for the new part (the planar card) to be shipped to the depot. Overall, while I certainly wish I would have received a fully functional machine when I purchased it, I'm satisfied with Lenovo's service (and I would recommend sending your T61p into the depot if you are experiencing this problem, since it worked fairly well for me).

Hi all,

I have finally decided to send my T61P to the depot, they replaced the planar card and everything seems to be sort out with regards to the mentioned issue with 3D intensive graphics.

I am still stressing the notebook.

I can plan Crysis without any shutdown with two sticks of ram (2x 2go) at last.

But there is something strange, I can no longer find the turbo memory which seems to have disappeared from the config.

Does anyone know if turbo memory is embedded in the planar card

akim wrote: Does anyone know if turbo memory is embedded in the planar card

Turbo memory is a little card that plugs into the motherboard, similar to how the wireless network card is.

It is possible the repair depot might have forgot to give you back the turbo memory, maybe they put in a new motherboard and forgot to install turbo memory and sent it back to you without it.

you should check and make sure, I think you could just try installing the turbo memory driver and if it can't find the device, it's probably not there.

akim wrote:Hi all,

But there is something strange, I can no longer find the turbo memory which seems to have disappeared from the config.

Does anyone know if turbo memory is embedded in the planar card

................This is way too unpredictable.