Thinkpads Forum

Hellbore wrote:Just to reiterate what Snakejw said earlier, here's a really good test: If you don't have PC Doctor 5 from Lenovo, get it through Thinkvantage update or here's a link:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/si...cid=MIGR-67520

This version has a cool video test that will test your 3D graphics! If you can run this test a few times without crashing, you probably are in the clear... maybe...

It would be great if a few of the people who are still having this issue could try running this PC Doctor video card test and see if you pass it! This might be an easier (and free) way to identify what machines have this problem.

I just checked. Your link doesn't work. Lenovo System Update is also not working. What is wrong with Lenovo these days.

generalsu, so did they fix the problem or not? and weren't they supposed to tell you what's causing the problem?

I got a call from Lenovo today. No, they haven't sent people to replace my mobo yet, which is what they promised to do 3 weeks ago. They told me my problem has been elevated and now someone is assigned to take care of the problem. He called me 2 hours after and explained everything, and I said I just want the problem solved and hopefully for everyone else that has the same issue and I guess i will be waiting again.

Hellbore, strangely, I can pass the pc doctor video test now. I tried it 5 times, all passed. I guess it won't a reliable tool to test the hardware after all.

SnakeJW wrote:

Hellbore, strangely, I can pass the pc doctor video test now. I tried it 5 times, all passed. I guess it won't a reliable tool to test the hardware after all.

Nuts! This was one of the 1st tests I was planning to make when I get my new T61p in two days.

Has this thread confirmed that a 2x 1GB RAM can have the intensive 3D gaming problem?

If not PCDoctorv5, what would the experts (Hellbore, SnakeJW, and General, and others) recommend as the acid test for the intensive 3D gaming problem?

In another thread, a poster suggested running the Crysis demo was the acid test. Any thoughts?

I want to test this for this problem immediately when I get my new PC. Gaming is a priority interest for me.

Thanks for any inputs.

Alacrity

Yeah this issue is strange, it can be hard to pinpoint.

For example, I was having some crashes with the loaner T61P I had, but then about a week went by where I had NO crashes and couldn't make it crash even when I played my games.

Then after a week or so, it started crashing again. What an unpredictable problem!

For me I guess the acid test was playing Bioshock, that always caused crashes unless I removed one stick of RAM. I haven't tried the Crysis demo but both Crysis and Bioshock are DirectX 10 games that will totally stress test your 3D graphics system, I would say those 2 games are a good place to start.

I wish it wasn't such a mysterious issue!

I would say bioshock is a good one to test your system. If you have some latest video games that runs on dx10, they are good for your purpose as well. For me, simply C&C3 will get the job done. It always crash on me. But sometimes it runs for 1 hour without any problems. I wouldn't use half-life 2 tho, it's "old" compare to the new games. Hellbore was right about crysis, I heard it's the most demanding video game nowadays, lastest and fastest card on the market right now is having a tough time running the full specs.

Great to know!

I have downloaded the three acid test demos: Bioshock, Crysis, and C&C3. Based on your inputs, those demos should do the trick!

Last question...I don't remember if I saw it in the hugh thread that I read from cover to cover but does 2x 1GB RAM put the PC into difficulty as readily as the 2 x 2GB RAM? And, taking one of the 1GB RAM sticks out will allow the intensive 3D gaming to occur without crash? I don't remember as much was said on the 2x 1GB as has been mentioned onthe 4GB case.

Thanks for any inputs on that one.

Alacrity


EDIT: I have to ask since you both seem to be gaming folks....my old favorite has been HL2 Deathmatch multiplayer. (yes I know it is old....I play it with a Nvidia 5200) . My screen name is "BOT" which confuses the heck out of the other players. What is the best multiplayer online game of the three? I think I read that Bioshock has no online capability but what about the other two? Thanks.

alacrityathome wrote:Great to know!

I have downloaded the three acid test demos: Bioshock, Crysis, and C&C3. Based on your inputs, those demos should do the trick!

Last question...I don't remember if I saw it in the hugh thread that I read from cover to cover but does 2x 1GB RAM put the PC into difficulty as readily as the 2 x 2GB RAM? And, taking one of the 1GB RAM sticks out will allow the intensive 3D gaming to occur without crash? I don't remember as much was said on the 2x 1GB as has been mentioned onthe 4GB case.

Thanks for any inputs on that one.

Alacrity


EDIT: I have to ask since you both seem to be gaming folks....my old favorite has been HL2 Deathmatch multiplayer. (yes I know it is old....I play it with a Nvidia 5200) . My screen name is "BOT" which confuses the heck out of the other players. What is the best multiplayer online game of the three? I think I read that Bioshock has no online capability but what about the other two? Thanks.

My T61p had 2 x 1GB and showed the problem. Taking out one stick made everything run smooth. It has since been corrected by sending it in for repairs.
As for the games, C&C3 is probably the best. As you said, Bioshock has no multiplayer, and the number of Crysis players is understandably low, considering the system requirements. If you're looking for great multiplayer games, consider Call of Duty 4 and Gears of War.

they are two different genes of games, shooter and RTS, it all depends on what kind of game do you like.

SnakeJW wrote:generalsu, so did they fix the problem or not? and weren't they supposed to tell you what's causing the problem?

I got a call from Lenovo today. No, they haven't sent people to replace my mobo yet, which is what they promised to do 3 weeks ago. They told me my problem has been elevated and now someone is assigned to take care of the problem. He called me 2 hours after and explained everything, and I said I just want the problem solved and hopefully for everyone else that has the same issue and I guess i will be waiting again.

Hellbore, strangely, I can pass the pc doctor video test now. I tried it 5 times, all passed. I guess it won't a reliable tool to test the hardware after all.

SnakeJW, I believe they have fixed the problem. The whole motherboard was replaced and the 2 1GB memory stick was replaced with a "single-stacked" version. I played Tomb Raider Anniversary for a few hours with single-core, and it did not lock up or shutdown by itself. It also did a BurnInTest Professional Test, and everything passed with the following memory combinations:

2 + 1
1 + 1

I am still running a few other games just to make sure everything is running smoothly as it should be. I agree that Crysis is a demanding game, but an alternative game that everyone can also try to stress test their systems is "John Woo presents Stranglehold". It requires at least 2GB memory, 15GB disk space and a GeForce 7800 card. It won't operate on a machine that has any less.

So far I am still having problems trying to get Dual Core to work with the games. About 15 mins or so into the game, the system completely shuts down on its own. No warning, no BSOD, no restart, nothing.

I am still running a few other games just to make sure everything is running smoothly as it should be. I agree that Crysis is a demanding game, but an alternative game that everyone can also try to stress test their systems is "John Woo presents Stranglehold". It requires at least 2GB memory, 15GB disk space and a GeForce 7800 card. It won't operate on a machine that has any less.


General,

If John Woo takes a minimum GeForce 7800 card, will the FX 570m run the game? I had thought the 7800 outperformed the 570m. Am I wrong on that?

Alacrity

alacrityathome wrote:I am still running a few other games just to make sure everything is running smoothly as it should be. I agree that Crysis is a demanding game, but an alternative game that everyone can also try to stress test their systems is "John Woo presents Stranglehold". It requires at least 2GB memory, 15GB disk space and a GeForce 7800 card. It won't operate on a machine that has any less.


General,

If John Woo takes a minimum GeForce 7800 card, will the FX 570m run the game? I had thought the 7800 outperformed the 570m. Am I wrong on that?

Alacrity

yes it will run.

Thanks to everyone for the great inputs. I see from my UPS tracking that my new T61p is about 7 miles away at 4:30am so it looks like a delivery is possible today.

Lenovo gave me a gratis Express delivery. Two days on my front door step from China. Lenovo is turning me into a strong supporter so far.

Can you mention what the recommended FX570m 250MB driver/INF is at the moment? Especially for gaming. I see a whole range and set of driver sources in the forum. Which is positive.....nice to know there is a lot of tweaking effort out there on the web. But then which one to use for gaming? In fact, I almost get the impression when I look at laptopvideo2go that the driver may be optimized for each game.....one for Bioshock.....one for Crysis. Is that the case? Or, is there one driver that will run most 3D intensive games well? Thanks in advance for any inputs on this.

I will let you all know my testing results over the next couple of days.

Alacrity

generalsu wrote: So far I am still having problems trying to get Dual Core to work with the games. About 15 mins or so into the game, the system completely shuts down on its own. No warning, no BSOD, no restart, nothing.

I'm not sure if enabling dual core is what's causing your problems but those symptoms are exactly what mine does with WoW and two sticks of RAM.

Thanks for the info, generalsu. I've heard that double stacked memory tends to have addressing issues. But if the memory type is causing the problem, why would they replace the mobo. Hum,,something doesn't add up here. And no dual core? ....speechless.

alacrityathome wrote: If John Woo takes a minimum GeForce 7800 card, will the FX 570m run the game? I had thought the 7800 outperformed the 570m. Am I wrong on that?

Alacrity

The FX 570M is a GeForce 8600M GT. I'm pretty sure that the FX is a more powerful card, especially if overclocked.

as upset as I was withmy troubled laptop, certain lenovo personel here has helped me getting through the headache. I received my loaner today just right ontime for my biz trip. I am now waiting for my replacement to come. hopefully this time lenovo will work out all the issue and provide the world-class support and service that have been known for from IBM.

Hello everyone, first of all, A LOT of my questions have been answered in this thread alone and I want to thank everyone that has contributed to this problem. I also experience lock up/freezing screen problems with my T61p, specifically with Crysis, Call of Duty 4, and World of Warcraft. The weird thing is my notebook passes all stress tests, such as Burn In Test and PC doctor 5.

Whenever I get lock ups, I mash alt+F4 to exit the game. What really confuses me is that when I restart the game after the lock up, my FPS(frames per second) drops considerabley. (Almost by half; I usually run WoW at about 70-80 in crowded areas, and after restarting the game, I get around 35-40.) I also noticed that the stress tests FPS dropped too after the lock up. Surprisingly, after the first lock up, my T61p doesn't freeze or lock up afterwards.

Although I'm not 100% sure, I'm certain that this lock issue I'm experiencing is what everyone else is experiencing in this thread. It seems that either taking out one stick of ram or sending my thinkpad to the depot are the best solutions. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm leaning towards sending it to the depot because I simply cannot live with 1 GB or ram. (I have two, 1 GB ram.) So my question is this: how long does the delivery box take to arrive? And how long does the overall process take? Finally, does it actually fix the problem?

Again, thanks for everyone's responses and solutions to this problem. I apologize for my extremely long post, but I'm really concerned about my thinkpad.

guffawkid wrote:Hello everyone, first of all, A LOT of my questions have been answered in this thread alone and I want to thank everyone that has contributed to this problem. I also experience lock up/freezing screen problems with my T61p, specifically with Crysis, Call of Duty 4, and World of Warcraft. The weird thing is my notebook passes all stress tests, such as Burn In Test and PC doctor 5.

Whenever I get lock ups, I mash alt+F4 to exit the game. What really confuses me is that when I restart the game after the lock up, my FPS(frames per second) drops considerabley. (Almost by half; I usually run WoW at about 70-80 in crowded areas, and after restarting the game, I get around 35-40.) I also noticed that the stress tests FPS dropped too after the lock up. Surprisingly, after the first lock up, my T61p doesn't freeze or lock up afterwards.

Although I'm not 100% sure, I'm certain that this lock issue I'm experiencing is what everyone else is experiencing in this thread. It seems that either taking out one stick of ram or sending my thinkpad to the depot are the best solutions. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm leaning towards sending it to the depot because I simply cannot live with 1 GB or ram. (I have two, 1 GB ram.) So my question is this: how long does the delivery box take to arrive? And how long does the overall process take? Finally, does it actually fix the problem?

Again, thanks for everyone's responses and solutions to this problem. I apologize for my extremely long post, but I'm really concerned about my thinkpad.

I'm not sure that this is the same problem as the one being discussed. Does your computer power off in the middle of games? If it only freezes, then it probably has something to do with the graphics driver. I've had this problem before, and restarting usually fixes it. On the first page of this thread, there are links to Windows hotfixes that deal with this problem. Try installing them.

alacrityathome wrote:
Hey Toby,

I am right around the corner from you in N. CA. You have to come over and see my new T61p in a couple of days.

I was wondering if you were ordering a 2nd T61p since your signature showed SUSE 64 o/s. Or, was your 2nd PC coming with SUSE installed on it? I didn't see that o/s alternative on the order sheet at Lenovo

the signature refers to my new t61p, that still sits sealed besides me. Right now I am having an 8yr old dell, 0.5GHz PIII 0.5GB ram.
I will put suse64 on my new one as I have suse on my dell (right now the new one has vista business64 on it). Also my 2x2GB ram will be delivered today, the mushkin pc2-6400 800 ram from newegg.

So i guess, I will upgrade from base warranty to 1yr onsite warranty, and then open the box, and hope for the best. Onsite, because I want to see what they are doing, if mine should be afflicted.

Downloading bioshock demo right now, and will test it under xpp.

SnakeJW wrote:Thanks for the info, generalsu. I've heard that double stacked memory tends to have addressing issues. But if the memory type is causing the problem, why would they replace the mobo. Hum,,something doesn't add up here. And no dual core? ....speechless.

Well my 2GB stick is a double stacked memory. I use it with the 1GB single stacked memory, and so far, the games have not crash or shutdown my system yet. All this running on single core only. Using dual-core will somehow crash the games and shutdown the system automatically.

Whether the memory is single stacked or double stacked, I believe the motherboard is definitely defective and must be replaced.

Pocket Aces wrote: I'm not sure that this is the same problem as the one being discussed. Does your computer power off in the middle of games? If it only freezes, then it probably has something to do with the graphics driver. I've had this problem before, and restarting usually fixes it. On the first page of this thread, there are links to Windows hotfixes that deal with this problem. Try installing them.

I experienced the power off in games only once or twice, but I constantly experience the lock ups/screen freeze with most of my games, especially WoW. I tried numerous graphics drivers but all of them still caused the lock ups. I mainly use laptopvideo2go drivers, but tried lenovo's and nivida's as well. Unfortunately, restarting doesn't this problem. I'll try the first page for the hotfixes and see if they fix my problem.

P.S. Can anyone recommend me stable graphic drivers so I can determine if they are the problem or not? Thanks!

EDIT: I should've mentioned this earlier, but I run windows XP, 32 bit

For clarification, does the issue exist for only dx10? Or does it occur with dx9 as well? I don't really game, thus I do not know which games you guys are mentioning are dx9 vs. dx10.

Presumably though, doom3 on max settings should trigger the issue no? If not, what about F.E.A.R. ?

lbraasch wrote:For clarification, does the issue exist for only dx10? Or does it occur with dx9 as well? I don't really game, thus I do not know which games you guys are mentioning are dx9 vs. dx10.

Presumably though, doom3 on max settings should trigger the issue no? If not, what about F.E.A.R. ?

The issue has nothing to do with DX. First of all, almost none of the games mentioned run on DX10, save Gears of War and Crysis. Also, DX10 is exclusive to Vista, yet the problem shows up in XP machines. Any 3D games released in the past two years or so will tax the computer enough to trigger the problem.

Pocket Aces wrote:..The issue has nothing to do with DX. First of all, almost none of the games mentioned run on DX10, save Gears of War and Crysis. ...

And Bioshock, don't forget Bioshock! It is DirectX 10 but has the option to run in DirectX 9 as well.

I agree though that the problem isn't limited only to DirectX 10 use, I got crashes even if I ran Bioshock in DirectX 9 mode AND if I ran PC Burn-In Test which uses DirectX 9 for its 3D graphics testing.

I see a lot of people using the word "crash" but can you guys specify? Does the game just shut off? Does the laptop restart or just power down? Does your screen lock up? Does sound loop?

For me, the screen locks up and sounds loops forever. I have to mash alt+F4 or force shut down.

Hellbore wrote:
I agree though that the problem isn't limited only to DirectX 10 use, I got crashes even if I ran Bioshock in DirectX 9 mode AND if I ran PC Burn-In Test which uses DirectX 9 for its 3D graphics testing.

What if my bioshock "crashes" but I pass the Burn In Test? Is my notebook still broken?

Hellbore, snake, General, and experts,

Got my T61p 4 hours ago and have been preparing for the intensive 3D testing.

So far:

...LCD screen is fabulous. A little afraid from the forum posts about samsung vs Philips issues. Bright, clear, and all pixels present.
...Tested PC with PCDoctorv5. No problems but most recent Snake reports are that this is not a definitive test.
...Tested 3Dmark05 with stock video driver/inf. 8004 3D Marks for the video and cpu had 8823 cpu marks
...Ran the initial portions of the Bioshock demo and saw no issues

All with stock drivers so far as I mentioned.

2x 1GB RAM

Maybe I am one of the lucky ones!

I will download 3dMark06 next. I also have Crysis and CofC3 demos ready for testing.

Then I will look at the newer video drivers to test...or should I? If everything appears to be working....should I touch the drivers?

How do the 3DMarks score look so far to the experts.

Appreciate any and all feedback!

Alacrity


EDIT: Downloaded 3dMark06 and 3D marks score was 3948. Upgraded driver to 162.04 and 3Dmarks score increased to 4318. 3Dmark05 score increased to 8787. Played a good part of BioShock without problem or crash. Thanks to everyone for steering me thru these tests.

I forgot to add that the engineer added a few crackling sound to my laptop when I open and close it. Even the Lenovo engineers are not reliable.

guffawkid wrote:What if my bioshock "crashes" but I pass the Burn In Test? Is my notebook still broken?

If your bioshock crashes, I think the real test is, pull out 1 stick of RAM and see if it still crashes.

If it still crashes in Bioshock with only 1 stick of RAM then the problem is something else. If it won't crash with 1 stick of RAM...then you probably do have this problem.

Can anyone who replaces with "new" motherboard reply if the problem has been solved?

I just wonder if the problem Absolutely is caused by either driver or hardware.

Should everyone who has t61p do testing(run bioshock or something else)?

thank you

Hellbore wrote:
If your bioshock crashes, I think the real test is, pull out 1 stick of RAM and see if it still crashes.

If it still crashes in Bioshock with only 1 stick of RAM then the problem is something else. If it won't crash with 1 stick of RAM...then you probably do have this problem.

Taking out 1 stick of RAM solved my issue! I can't believe it! Although only using 1 GB of RAM makes me cry, I guess it's better than crashing every 15 minutes. Since I have the same problem as you guys, do you guys recommend me sending my t61p back to lenovo? Or just stay with 1GB?