Thinkpads Forum

alacrityathome wrote:dikrek,

It shouldn't crash with Bioshock or Crysis. HalfLife is an easier test compared to Bioshock and Crysis.

Do you have the dual RAM memory?

With Bioshock or Crysis, did you try pulling out one of the RAM sticks?

For those with T61p PCs, a good PC should make it thru both Bioshock and Crysis.

By the way, my PC also says manufactured by Lenovo Singapore but also made in China with ID H. so, I am not sure what all that means. I hope what it means is that the mobo was manufactured in Singapore but the final assembly was in China (I am assuming higher quality in Singapore).

Let us know how you make out.

alacrity

alacrity,

Not sure if I quite buy the strenuousness of the app as being the issue.

I just completed the latest Call of Duty 4 game, ran flawlessly with all the trimmings at the native resolution of the laptop! Made it run super-hot but IT NEVER CRASHED ONCE. This is a modern game, released after bioshock.

I then tried again bioshock and turned ALL the details waaaay down, low resolution, everything pretty much at it's lowest.

It rebooted my PC, barely saw the loading screen.

Then I disabled speedstep.

The game showed a few seconds of the intro, then locked up, but this time I was able to shut it down.

Bioshock ran OK at the same low settings on an old T60! So, there's NO way it's more strenuous on the CPU and GPU than CoD4 at max settings.

I use this box for ultra-heavy work, including very strenuous sessions of VMWare. Always stable under the most ridiculous load.

Also, never had problems with 3Dmark like others, works fine. Really, just bioshock and crysis (the latter not as much) have issues.

Maybe it's a CPU/northbridge/GPU stepping issue? Pick one or more...

D

dikrek,

IMO, the intro dates of different gaming software is not related to their individual 3D intensity.

For example, my friend plays Command and Conquer 4 on an old PC and older GPU with no problems.....it has less demanding graphics.

On our T61p PCs, IMO the graphics demand of Bioshock may be much higher than Call of Duty 4. I have played both with no problem.

Other variables could be driver and o/s. I have XP Pro and the 169.04 driver.

Otherwise, you might have that culprit we are talking about.....g_d forbid.....the temperature sensitive/faulty mobo. I hope not. What is your o/s and driver?

alacrityathome wrote:dikrek,

IMO, the intro dates of different gaming software is not related to their individual 3D intensity.

For example, my friend plays Command and Conquer 4 on an old PC and older GPU with no problems.....it has less demanding graphics.

On our T61p PCs, IMO the graphics demand of Bioshock may be much higher than Call of Duty 4. I have played both with no problem.

Other variables could be driver and o/s. I have XP Pro and the 169.04 driver.

Otherwise, you might have that culprit we are talking about.....g_d forbid.....the temperature sensitive/faulty mobo. I hope not. What is your o/s and driver?

I know what you mean and I might be in denial, but I still can't see how bioshock at the absolute lowest quality and resolution settings is more intensive than CoD4 at the highest settings that make the laptop scorchingly hot!

If it's heat, then believe me, running CoD for 4-5 hours at a time it gets HOT HOT HOT. I mean, bioshock doesn't have TIME to make the GPU hot, it crashes so quickly.

This is just common sense IMO when it comes to it being a heat issue.

As stated in earlier posts, I have 14", all possible options, vista64, latest lenovo gfx driver (7.15.11.0145, which is admittedly old but it's the "legit" lenovo driver).

What do you think?

dikrek,

IMHO.....I think it is the driver. I see on laptopvideo2go.com, I see different drivers recommended for different games.

Not sure why it should be so sensitive or dependent....but there it is.

So, you may want to experiment a little bit with drivers. It is relatively easy to change drivers.

If you can run COD4.....it seems as if your PC is ok.....thus the driver recommendation.

To take temperature out of the equation, you may want to use some software to take a log of your GPU temperature.

When I was trying overclocking of the GPU, if I was a tad over the acceptable limit for either graphics speed or memory speed, the test under 3DMark06 would freeze very early......and obviously with not much time to affect the temperature.

So, back to the driver.

Let us know how you do.

If may chime in a bit here:
dikrek, Are you running Bioshock in DX10 mode or DX9? Reason I ask is there are issues (crashes) with running that game in DX10. Bioshock on the PC has been known to not play nice on the PC.

Anyways this might be a red herring but its a good idea to completely rule out the software ( this include drivers) as the cause first before contemplating more serious causes. If you did then my apologies.

Of course another test is to take out 1 stick (if you're running 2) and run things on just 1 stick of ram. If things are stable with one its the dreaded issue everyone has been talking about.

alacrityathome wrote:dikrek,

IMHO.....I think it is the driver. I see on laptopvideo2go.com, I see different drivers recommended for different games.

Not sure why it should be so sensitive or dependent....but there it is.

So, you may want to experiment a little bit with drivers. It is relatively easy to change drivers.

If you can run COD4.....it seems as if your PC is ok.....thus the driver recommendation.

To take temperature out of the equation, you may want to use some software to take a log of your GPU temperature.

When I was trying overclocking of the GPU, if I was a tad over the acceptable limit for either graphics speed or memory speed, the test under 3DMark06 would freeze very early......and obviously with not much time to affect the temperature.

So, back to the driver.

Let us know how you do.

It WAS the driver, went to 169.12 and ALL IS FINE!!!!

Before it would fail no matter whether I used DX9, 10 etc.

I meant to do the driver but there wasn't an INF for the one I wanted at laptopvideo2go, now there is and all is 100% fine. Also, my experience index went up 2 decimal points.

Thx

D

Congratulations! Great to see your success! Now you are an expert.......you learn the most when you try to resolve and do resolve a problem.

Enjoy all those games.

Alacrity

I wish it was the real solution. Unfortunately I have Vista-32 so I cannot test 169.12 driver.

pavelz,

you can use an even more recent driver...

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/ind ... opic=16679

169.28

Enjoy.

Alacrity

Ya know i tried out bioshock last night on my T61p for a good 3 or so hours and running only a gig of ram i would play it at 1680X1050 res with everything on max at a good 25fps. but since i like speed rather then looks i turned everything down to lowest and res at 1024X768 and got a constant 60fps.

and as for taking in my laptop the new motherboards are on back order so i'm waiting for the new mobo to come in and see if it fixes my problem.

but i will make sure to keep you guys posted.

I got Bioshock for Christmas and started having problems with 4gb with BSODs and shutdowns mostly. I took out one sodimm and Bioshock ran fine. This was with Forceware driver 169.25 and 4GB Muskin memory. However, I recently bought some G.Skill ram and put 4gb of that in. I also upgraded the video driver to 169.28 from LaptopVideo2Go. No more crashes for me with 4GB. So a new motherboard may not be necessary in all cases.

tselling,

good info. first input that the that combo circumvents the graphics problem.

did you do the 3Dmark06 tests with your new configuration? try to push your system harder to see what the limits are....

alacrity

that sounds awesome dude. yeah i agree with him (pionts up) try running 3dmarks 05 and 06 and see if that fixes the problem.

and just for an update on my new mobo. its on back order and i'm just waiting for it to come in so i can't take it in and have it replaced.

also tselling. from what i know that your the only one that has found a solution for this problem. other then disabling the speed step in bios or sending in the computer to have the mobo replaced. so yes if you could run some more tests and keep us posted.

thanks dude.

Ok, today, 3 of the 10 T61p my company ordered arrived I told them to let me know once they get into the door. All three have the same configuration: T7700, 4G Ram, WUXGA. I personally opened them up one by one. From the back of the sticker, it looks like they were made in Singapore.

I found some defects as soon as I opened up the first one. It looks like it has been rushed out of production and they didn't even put it together correctly. There is a gap between the left hand rest and the base. AND, once I pushed down the power button to boot up for the first time, it said the windows files are damaged and need to be repaired. Rescue and recover did the job correctly but it still takes about 15 mins before I can see the windows logo.

Then I opened up the rest of the two T61ps. These two seems to be better built, even better than the one I'm using right now.

Two points:
1. I'm so glad I didn't get the WUXGA for my personal laptop. It was much dimmer than the WSXGA. And the fine prints are killing my eyes. And I have 20/20 vision, but still uncomfortable reading those.
2. The build quality varies from one to the other. It all depends on your luck.

I don't have time to put them through 3DMark06 or BurnInTest to see if they have the same graphic problems yet. They will be used for data processing and some simulations. I will try to continue the testing tomorrow. Once I did, I will give you guys an update. The opportunity to get hands on some many T61P at the same time is hard to come by, I will put it into good use.

Snake, I had a similar small build problem with my t61p. I had to screw the bottom-right screw of the display to have a correct grip of the bezel. Did they build those laptops by hand?

So, our experience confirms the degradation of quality. I had great expectations but I am so, disappointed. Ahhh!

Strike me up as another user with lockups. I have noticed the problem with 3 games in particular:

UT3 - random
COD4 - takes about 5-10min
Crysis - locks up within a few min of start

Most lock-ups require a power off to clear. They have been BSOD's pointing to Nvidia drivers, black screens with looping audio, and a few random power off's.

I can run PCDoctor 5 Fine, 3D Mark 06 fine, and other games such as HL2 / TFC2, Timeshift, etc.

I have tried MANY Nvidia drivers including Omegas and inf mods from LaptopVideo2Go.

This has been tested on both factory and clean installs of WinXP.

Current Config is:

T61P - 6459-CTO, Bios 2.07, SMBIOS 2.4
WinXP SP2 - all latest patches and Thinkvantage patches
T7500 - 2.2Ghz Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 10
4GB Ram - 2 x 2GB SMART Modular Dual Stack
Hitachi 200GB 7.2K - HTS722020K9SA00
Bluetooth
Intel 4965AGN
Matshita DVD-RAM UJ-852
Nvidia FX 570M - Driver Version 6.14.11.6928

I have tested both with and without the Advanced Dock; and, both with and without a Dell 2005FPW with the same results.

CPU temps rarely ever go above 71deg C under load using NHC.

I have not tried with one DIMM as of yet. Leaving that as a last resort.

I will try disabling Speedstep and Intel Virtualization in the bios and report back. I will not disable second core as that defeats the purpose of having dual cores.

DUDE that sounds just like the problem we are all having. other then getting all the way through 3dmarks, best way to know is to take out 1 stick of ram.

Ok, I ran both 3D Mark 2005 and 2006 tonight again without problems. I tested both with and without Speedstep and Intel Virtualization enabled. Highest scores were 6937 and 3766 respectively with default 171.16 WinXP 32bit settings and LaptopVideo2Go inf.

I will test COD here shortly -- this will be my true test.

And forgot to mention previously - system was purchased during the Labor Day EPP sale, so it is as close to original as possible.

New BIOS 2.09 -1.08 for T61p is out. Can anybody confirm whether it solves BSOD and system crash? Someone on Lenovo forum said it does.

pavelz wrote:New BIOS 2.09 -1.08 for T61p is out. Can anybody confirm whether it solves BSOD and system crash? Someone on Lenovo forum said it does.

I answer to myself. Unfortunatelly it doesn't solve it.

abarbieri wrote: Are we sure that each individual step to avoid the reported issues
1) single core (speedstep enabled, dual channel mode - 2 DIMMS)
2) speedstep disabled (two cores, dual channel mode - 2 DIMMS)
3) single channel (one DIMM, two cores, speedstep enabled)
on its own does actually always resolve the problems?

In my case for example I did some testing and 3) always did the trick, whilst 1) did not.

it is definitely an issue with 'dual channel' mode but the GPU must be actively participating otherwise a simple memory stress test should consistently trigger the problems.

Wow - this thread running for over 5 months -- certainly indicates there are problems with the T61p in the higher peerformance mode.

How can Lenovo in good conscience continue to sell these units?

It will be interesting to see SnakeJW's test results on the most recent three T61p's.

I have a newer 61p, which I recieved 2 weeks before christmas. I do not have the issue. I can run bio-shock, f.e.a.r., C.S. Source, Doom 3, all without issue. Never had a crash or bluescreen.

just thought I'd post that so all the people freaking out about quality control realize it's not as widespread as this thread makes it out to be...

lbraasch wrote:I have a newer 61p, which I recieved 2 weeks before christmas. I do not have the issue. I can run bio-shock, f.e.a.r., C.S. Source, Doom 3, all without issue. Never had a crash or bluescreen.

just thought I'd post that so all the people freaking out about quality control realize it's not as widespread as this thread makes it out to be...

Either you are lucky or you have only one DIMM.

pavelz wrote:New BIOS 2.09 -1.08 for T61p is out. Can anybody confirm whether it solves BSOD and system crash? Someone on Lenovo forum said it does.

Doesn't work for me.

pavelz wrote:

lbraasch wrote:I have a newer 61p, which I recieved 2 weeks before christmas. I do not have the issue. I can run bio-shock, f.e.a.r., C.S. Source, Doom 3, all without issue. Never had a crash or bluescreen.

just thought I'd post that so all the people freaking out about quality control realize it's not as widespread as this thread makes it out to be...

Either you are lucky or you have only one DIMM.

2x1gb.

Not everyone has this issue. Go read the initial reviews of this machine. They stress tested them with the same games that are having the "issue". None of them mention the problem.

I'm not saying that the issue doesn't suck for those who have it. I had a planar card issue with my 41p that took 3 months to resolve. However, people see this thread and assume that all the notebooks are bad, which they are not.

For the most part, only people with the issue post in this thread, not the people who do not have the issue. Don't let the internet "hype" sweep you off your feet.

What are the difference(s) between T61p notebooks that are exhibiting these problems and those that are not?

It would also be great if people who are not having the problems with their T61p notebooks, could post here. Many thanks.

I would like to "second" the two posts above. My particular interest in a Thinkpad T61p - is, indeed, the "p" portion - Particularly as it pretains to CAD appications. Many rely on OpenGL - especically for rendering.

If, in those areas, users are NOT seeing these sort of problems, that would be very conforting to those contempalting a T61p for CAD type applications (as vs games)

Thanks
JimL

rbena wrote:What are the difference(s) between T61p notebooks that are exhibiting these problems and those that are not?

It would also be great if people who are not having the problems with their T61p notebooks, could post here. Many thanks.

A simple test for Vista 64 bit owners would be helpful, as I have 3 T61p laptops, and one has experienced a stability issue (reboot, not BSOD) under heavy graphics loads, viewing Microsoft Live 3D maps I believe, but haven't been able to repeat it.

Anybody have ideas? It appears 3DMark06 is a bit of a hassle to install and use under 64 bit Vista, but I'm certainly open minded, and will try other video drivers, turning off SpeedStep, etc. I just don't see consensus here yet on a simple repeatable test, and/or a the fix, but will keep watching...

I have the T61p w/XP and received it just prior to Xmas 07.

And, I am heavily into intensive 3D gaming, 3DMark06, etc.

No problems! Love the T61p and highly recommend it.

I had actually been reading this thread before getting my T61p and was concerned. This is kind of like the expression "if you are in a recession and you are unemployed, then it is a depression". The problem is probably not widespread but more of a reflection of this great forum and exchange of information. Lenovo is now well aware of the problem and readily replaces the motherboard to resolve a specific warranty return. Because any company has to be sensitive to returns & problems, I would bet that Lenovo has incorporated more assembly quality and testing to avoid expensive returns for this issue.

But, for those with the issue....it's a bummer.

Good luck to all trying to resolve this specific PC issue and don't hesitate to have Lenovo change out the mobo!

For the poster who asked how to test for the issue, my recommendation is to download the Crysis demo and test for 5 minutes on each PC. This is more stringent and faster than 3Dmark06. And, the user may even enjoy doing the test.

I did have issue with my laptop before sending it in. after some issue with the repair department. I received my replacement laptop which has resolved most of the issues I had before. (Now, I'm pretty sure it is Vista. )

I had to go through lots, but there is help around. As long as you are patience, they will fix for you.