Thinkpads Forum

MaloventEvil wrote:

FNAKFHE wrote:

what's the ambient temp like? are you blocking the fan inadvertently?

funny you should ask.

I live in Canada, so we dont have HVAC systems here in North America.

I live in government houseing and I can not afford AirCondtioning, (only the $3000 laptop with lenovo 20" lcd and ADVANCED dock)

So when it comes to turning on the AC, no i can not.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?

WHAT YOU THINK I WORRIE ABOUT DUST? AND COVER MY LAPTOP WITH A CLEAR PLACTIC COVER?

HAHAHAHHAHA.. your too funny.


No relly, we should get a NEW order and cancel this one, but im worried that they will not give me the same discounted price.

Liamo0o wrote:there is nothing within at least a 3 inch perimeter of my computer - it is sitting on my dosk connected to an advanced mini dock -I am not sure how to check ambient temperature. Would running higher amounts of RAM increase the temperature as well?

he is not asking you about system temp, so the temp of your ram and how much it will change the computer temp is not relevent,


He is asking about the sorounding room temp. how much is your AC thermostat at? and what temp is the room that your laptop is in at?


for me, im at a cool 72F and for us canadaidans its 21-22c

So that is welll within range.

but i think i know the solution: build my room to be a walk-in freezer this way i can run a laptop at 2.4 ghz.


come on guys, lets face it, this is way to much power in a laptop, and lenovo thought they had it down, but then we started to multi task while playing games and watch HD movies at the same time and it just shut off.. nice job IBM,

nevertheless, im still a loyal IBM custie.

Hey I have this EXACT SAME PROBLEM.

Liamo0o did you ever get this resolved?

I have a T61P running 2 sticks of 2gb each, and the Quadro 570M, when playing games such as Bioshock that are very graphics intensive, I get random crashes, or the error message:

nvlddmkm.dll has stopped responding and has successfully restarted etc. something like that

I tried some other things, with the 1gb stick from Lenovo, and the 2 2gb sticks that are 3rd-party:
1 stick of 2gb RAM in the bottom memory slot, Bioshock works perfect.
1 stick of 2gb RAM in the top slot, Bioshock works perfect.
TWO sticks of 2gb RAM, Bioshock won't even get past the opening scene.
One stick of 2gb RAM and one stick of 1gb RAM, Bioshock won't even get past opening scene.

I have not tried 2 sticks of 1gb RAM yet. I don't have another 1gb stick.

It seems there were 2 theories, the first one being that running 2 sticks somehow overloads the north bridge and makes it run too hot so it quickly overheats. Has anyone verified this? IS it possible to install a larger heatsink maybe, or somehow improve the cooling without voiding the warranty?

The other theory was that the Nvidia hardware or maybe the driver do not correctly address the memory. I did notice that the Quadro will automatically select half the system memory for use as texture memory. So, if you have 4 gigs, it shows the card having 2 gigs of texture memory, etc. So the theory was that the Nvidia GPU or possibly the driver does not correctly know how to handle this much RAM.

So, does anyone have a difinitive answer or is this still a mystery?

In my case, for example, I have this issue in Vista 64 bit, the issue persists in XP 32 bit also, and I have tried literally EVERY version of Nvidia driver from Lenovo or from Laptopvideo2go.com. Some crash faster than others. Currently I'm on the 163.69 WHQL driver which works PERFECT as long as I only have 2 gigs of RAM in there.

I wanted to add that I tried using a boot menu setting that restricts Windows to only 2 gigs of RAM, so I had 4 gigs in the machine but Windows reports only seeing 2 gigs, and the Nvidia card says it has only 1 gig of texture memory. This DID NOT solve the problem. Only physically removing the other 2 gigs solves the problem. I don't know why, maybe the way Windows restricts the memory doesn't restrict it to 1 stick or the other, maybe it is just using half of both sticks, thus not solving the problem? I don't know.

Has anyone researched if the memory specs could possibly cause it? Does the memory need to meet some higher standard if you are running 2 sticks?

I noticed the timing numbers on my 3rd party RAM are 5-5-5-15. The Lenovo ram timing is 5-5-5-12. I don't know what the significance of the last number is, I'll google it in a minute. Both are PC2-5300 ddr2.

Has anyone talked to Lenovo about this? I would like to know if they are aware of this issue, they SHOULD know about this by now, I would hope.

Who else is still having this issue, or did anyone find a solution? It seems that not very many people have over 2 gigs of RAM so it's hard to get anything done on this problem...grr...

UPDATE: I just called Lenovo tech support. The guy was nice about it but he wasn't able to really offer me any ideas. Basically he told me, he could send me a box and I could ship it to the depot to have the cooling system replaced and / or the motherboard replaced. That may or may not solve the problem. Also, they might refuse to replace the motherboard because they might just run the PC Doctor memory test and see that it passes, and say there's nothing wrong.

The other problem is, they will only support memory purchased from Lenovo. If I want them to really troubleshoot this issue thoroughly I would have to buy 4gb of Lenovo ram which is really expensive. Otherwise, they aren't going to mess with my 3rd party RAM, even though it should work in this motherboard supposedly.

Any ideas? For example, is there some way I can check if my cooling system is workign properly, some kind of fan test? I saw there was a fan utility that is supposed to allow you to control the fan on a Thinkpad but it doesn't work in Vista 64 bit. Is there a fan utility that works in Vista 64 bit?

This issue is getting extremely frustrating. Does anyone out there have a T61P that CAME with 4 gigs of ram, so it's the Lenovo RAM? I am VERY interested whether this issue occurs with 4 gigs of Lenovo RAM.

Hey can anyone having this problem please post their memory timing specs?

For example the 1gb stick of RAM my t61p came with has timings of 5-5-5-12

The 2gb sticks have timing 5-5-5-15

I wonder if the timing is a problem when running more than 1 stick?

I had the same problem with 32-bit Vista and 2 sticks of 1GB RAM. I sent mine in to be repaired, and now it works fine.

Pocket Aces wrote:I had the same problem with 32-bit Vista and 2 sticks of 1GB RAM. I sent mine in to be repaired, and now it works fine.

Did they say what the problem was or what they did to fix it?

Was that RAM that came with the laptop or did you put it in?

UPDATE:

I was able to reproduce the crash while doing a simple 3d Graphics Test using a program called PC Burn In.

I did a "memory torture test" before this and couldn't produce an error, but when I ran the "3d Graphics Test" alone, it crashed.

Here is the BSOD error I got:

A problem has been detected and Windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.

Attempt to reset the display driver and recover from timeout failed.

....
etc.
....

Technical Information:

*** STOP: 0x00000116 (0xfffffa8009f5a2c0,0xfffff98003cd0c70,0x0000000000000000,0x0000000000000002)

*** nvlddmkm.sys - Address fffff98003cd0c70 base at fffff98003cc8000, DateStamp 46e786b9

Anyone out there who has a T61P with 4 gigs of RAM, I would GREATLY appreciate it if you could take a few minutes to try this program which will test and see if you get the error I have been getting.

Here is the program, it is called PC Burn In, designed for finding problems like this:
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/bitpro.exe

Here's what I'd like you to do, if you could, if you have time and don't mind, I would be grateful:

1. Download and install the program
2. Run the program, it will say it's a trial, click Continue
3. In the program, go to the Configuration menu, click "Test duty cycles", then in that screen, click the "All Off" button, then check the box for "3D Graphics", so it will only test 3d graphics. Then click OK.
4. In the program, go to the Configuration menu again, click Test Preferences, then click the "3D Graphics" tab, change Window Size to "Full Screen (non-windowed)" Then click OK.
5. Now back in the main program window, click the green triangle button, which makes the test start. Let the test run for maybe 5 minutes or so, see if you get any errors or crashes.

If you could do this I would greatly appreciate it!

On my system this is the fastest and most predictable way to produce the error message.

Hellbore wrote:

Pocket Aces wrote:

They replaced the "Planar card", which I think is the motherboard. I used the stock RAM. The problem went away when I removed one stick of RAM (didn't matter which DIMM or which slot).

Pocket Aces wrote:

Hellbore wrote:

Thank you for telling me about your experience. Could you tell me what kind of things would cause the error for you, so I could try to duplicate your experience?

Someone kindly offered to let me borrow another 1 gb stick of Lenovo RAM, so I will be able to test if my system crashes with two 1gb sticks, like yours was doing. This should help narrow things down. If mine crashes with two 1gb sticks then I will definitely make Lenovo replace my planar card.

MOD EDIT: Trim your quotes please. Thanks.

Any 3D intensive application shut down my computer. 3DMark was generally pretty reliable in reproducing the shut-down.

Pocket Aces wrote:snipped

Thnks for the info... So what did you tell them? Is there anything I should say to make sure they replace my planar card? I REALLY think my planar card is the problem.

Another reason I think it is bad is because my planar card is actually making noises!! It is making a somewhat loud, high pitched squealing noise. Please see the following pictures, I found some pics of a T61p, circled in RED is the exact area of the planar card that is making the noise:

http://jerry.cleedo.com/t61guts.html

So, just wondering if there is anything I need to do to make sure they don't send the [censored] thing back without fixing it...

Also if you don't mind, could you tell me what exact model of RAM you got from crucial? When I went to their website they had more than one kind of RAM that I could chose from to get 2 2gig sticks for this laptop.

Well just an update:

I got an RMA for the 4 gigs of cheapo RAM I was trying to use, and I went ahead and ordered 4 gigs of Lenovo RAM. I decided, my time is valuable, I can't afford to go around in circles trying to get this problem fixed. I also am unsure whether this RAM I initially bought is good stuff, I have seen other people having problems with the same RAM, where it doesn't work correctly with both sticks in, so it could be bad RAM maybe.

This way, with 4 gigs of Lenovo RAM, either the problem will go away (if the RAM I had before wasn't compatible) or else, if the problem persists, I can send it to the depot with the 4 gigs of Lenovo RAM, and then I will know for sure I can reproduce the error, and they will HAVE to support it, they won't be able to complain about third party RAM. They will always have to support it.

It sucks I know, Lenovo RAM costs more, but I am realizing, my time really is valuable, I am wasting way too much time fooling with these problems, I really need to get this problem figured out ASAP.

So anyway, Lenovo is shipping me the 4 gigs of Lenovo RAM, and an RMA box to send my laptop in, if the problem persists with the Lenovo RAM. One way or another this problem WILL get solved, I paid too much for this computer to have it not work!

I am actually hoping that using Lenovo RAM will solve the problem, I would rather not have to send my laptop away and be without it right now, at such a busy time in my school semester. So I'm hoping the Lenovo RAM will solve it but my gut tells me it won't, and I will end up sending it in...

Hellbore,
Alternatively you could call Lenovo hardware support, tell them about your problem and:
1. Ask them to send you a replacement memory for the one in your original order, this way you could test your laptop with Lenovo certified memory original + new one. When I asked for a replacement memory I received it in less than a day! In my original order I had 512MB, so I was able test my laptop with 2x512MB and I didn’t get to recreate the shutdown problem with those sticks (This problem might be happening with larger memory sticks)

2. Ask them for the closest business partners to your home, so you could test your laptop with a Lenovo certified ram. Then see if the business partner is willing to cooperate. This way you could test the problem without additional costs, but with just a little more time.

Thanks nurio, I actually tried to find a partner locally so I could test things but I wasn't able to find one that would participate. For example, Best Buy was listed as a Lenovo service partner, but when I asked them if I could test with some Lenovo memory they totally blew me off. I don't mind too much sending it in though, especially if I can send it without my hard drive, dvd player, and RAM. I heard that I could send it that way, since they can just use their own parts to test with.

Hellbore wrote:Thanks nurio, I actually tried to find a partner locally so I could test things but I wasn't able to find one that would participate...........snip

Would you mind telling me where you saw BestBuy as being solution partner for lenovo?

Below is what will help you, hopefully:

CompUSA, Inc.
1357 S. Alma School Road
Mesa, AZ 85210
Tel: 602 615 5476

oh god... haha... I saw it in my imagination apparently. You're right, it's not Best Buy it's CompUSA. I live down the street from that CompUSA location and it happens to be right next to Best Buy so I always associate the two. My sleed deprived brain somehow got "Best Buy" when I read "CompUSA"...

Anyways, that explains their unsure answer on the phone hahaha! It's funny now, knowing that they AREN'T a lenovo service partner, because the guy I spoke with totally didn't know that and was kind of going along with whatever I said, until I wanted them to do something, then it was, ah we can't do that...

Hey guys, just wanted to post an update. My machine is currently at the depot.

Well, the latest update is kind of scary and strange. They are telling me they have tried swapping in 2 different motherboards so far and they still can not get the system to POST. ??? It posted fine before I sent it...

Anyways...just thought it was strange, and wanted to see what you guys make of it. I hope they figure it out, it sounds like they are stuck or something!

Anyways, this seems pretty strange, I hope everything works out. I wish I knew what they are doing and why they are having so much trouble fixing it!

I tried burn in test on my t61p T7500 4GB (OCZ ddr2) running vista x64 business (preloaded not fresh install). It did not crash nor random shutdowns. I let it run for 1.5 hours.

cs120ban wrote:I tried burn in test on my t61p T7500 4GB (OCZ ddr2) running vista x64 business (preloaded not fresh install). It did not crash nor random shutdowns. I let it run for 1.5 hours.

PC Burn In test?

My t61p passed that particular test too, but different test options would make it crash. Would you mind trying this for me?

1. In the program, go to the Configuration menu, click "Test duty cycles", then in that screen, click the "All Off" button, then check the box for "3D Graphics", so it will only test 3d graphics. Then click OK.
2. In the program, go to the Configuration menu again, click Test Preferences, then click the "3D Graphics" tab, change Window Size to "Full Screen (non-windowed)" Then click OK.
3. Now run the test for a while... On my machine it would crash within 5 minutes.

tested for 15 minutes before i went shower. The test passed. No crashing.

cs120ban when did you get your t61p?
Maybe it's a new fixed revision?

Just an update on my depot repair, Easyserv status shows:

Hold for Parts - Service call is on hold until parts arrive, estimated at: None provided

So I have to wait for parts for some unknown amount of time. [censored] it Lenovo I thought the depot was supposed to have parts on hand... That was one of the main reasons I didn't pick on-site repair, I thought the depot would be able to fix things better...

sept 18.

I too have this problem on my brand new T61p, so does a collegue of mine.

Funnily enough, we also both had the same problem with T60p - one stick of RAM worked just fine, but with 2 and running any kind of 3D application it crashes in various inventive ways ranging from parity errors, other bluescreens to shutdowns, or freezings.
For the T60p a change of RAM did the trick and it worked again.

So, I'm wondering if it will be enough for the T61p too, or if it might require a new motherboard as many in this thread seems to have experienced.

Have anyone had the same problems with T61p and a change of RAM sticks fixed it ?

Now we have 5 T61p laptops at work - all showing the exact same problem where they crash on running 3D apps with 2 memory sticks in them - works fine with just 1...