Thinkpads Forum

Well, I'm a big fan of thinkpad, so I hate to complain about it. But recently I just had the most terrible horrible buying experience with Lenovo.

The issue is simple: I ordered the latest thinkpad T61 with M$ Windows Vista Home Premier edition, it turned out that the machine was configured with the Vista Home Basic edition. Honestly, I don't care if it's Premier or Basic whatever, I'm going to replace it with XP anyways. And that was a mistake I made when placed the order, I should have selected the basic one to save a few bucks.

I figured out that it's perfect right to get the right stuff for the right money. So I called the Lenovo, after long long long waiting, the sales representative told me that the order really shows I ordered the Premier edition, but I need to call the technical support to solve the issue, and transferred my call to the technical support. Again, after long waiting, the technical guy told me "wow, since nothing wrong with the machine itself and the operating system is working well then that's not the case we can handle, you need to call the sales man to fix it!", and my call was transferred back again to the sales department. I was pushed back and forth several rounds just like that. Finally, after I used up all my patient, the sales representative told me she need the case # from technical support before she could do something for me. WTF. Why didn't they just tell me at the very beginning? Whatever, I called the technical support again and got the case #. You can't imagine what happened next. The representative from Lenovo told me that although I had the case # with me but she couldn't get the information from the # because it was newly added and I have to call back again on Monday. I made the first call on 2:00pm and that was 5:15pm when she told me I need to call back again on Monday. I spent more than 3 hours on the mistake made by Lenovo without even solving it! That's not the worst! She told me I'm not guaranteed to get the partial refund for the extra money, I may need to return the machine as a whole, then if I want I can place the order again. Come on, the deal is not there any more. Why should I place the same order again with much higher price!

Sorry for the bla bla bla~~, but I was so so [censored]. It just broke my heart so badly. I mean if I’m happy I may just through those extra bucks away, or whatever I want. It’s not a big deal. But hey, now I’m really [censored] by them and I can’t just let it go! I feel I was played with by Lenovo! That might be my own experience, but what's wrong here! Any of you got similar experience before? Any suggestions? I really appreciate that. Thanks.

--
Hai

a few questions...

1) does your order show home premium and were you charged extra for it?
2) what license is on the bottom of your thinkpad?
3) what does this page report as your configured OS?
4) if you planned to install XP then why didn't you order it with XP in the first place?

answering these will help both you and us come up with recommendations.

how come you just didn't cancel the order? most of the time they will get scared and fix it up for you right there. i think that it also does not look to good for a sales rep when he gets too many order cancelling customers.

Hi eriK, thank you for the response.

1) does your order show home premium and were you charged extra for it?
Yes, it does. I was charged by extra money.

2) what license is on the bottom of your thinkpad?
MS Vista Home Basic OEM

3) what does this page report as your configured OS?
MS Vista Home Basic

4) if you planned to install XP then why didn't you order it with XP in the first place?
Because I have XP installation disc with me.

BTW, the technical support told me their record shows that my machine was shipped with Vista Home Basic!

mattbiernat wrote:how come you just didn't cancel the order? most of the time they will get scared and fix it up for you right there. i think that it also does not look to good for a sales rep when he gets too many order cancelling customers.

Is that the rule for the game? Wow, good to know.
But It's not supposed to be like that.

erik wrote:4) if you planned to install XP then why didn't you order it with XP in the first place?

What the OP did was smart, because the Vista COA and recovery discs will increase the laptop's resale value several years down the road.

mattbiernat wrote:how come you just didn't cancel the order? most of the time they will get scared and fix it up for you right there.

That wouldn't have helped, because the customer service representative actually wanted the OP to cancel order!

hay04002, I'm sorry to hear about what you went through. You definitely should call them again because Lenovo owes you money. The difference between Home Premium and Home Basic is $49. You bought this T61 with last week's 20% off coupon, right? So you should get $49 x 0.8 = $39.20 back. Hopefully you'll have better luck this time.

It would seem to me that with the paperwork stating your OS is Home Premium, with a little persistance you should be able to get a refund, which probably would be the easiest for lenovo. I say good luck too.

Thank you guys for the replies.
Hopefully, I can have this solved on Monday, or I'll just return the machine.

Well, to answer one of your questions If anyone had similar experience before...

I placed my order on 8/29 (I needed to get it ASAP) I called on Tuesday to check if everything was ok with my order. Guess what? They could not verify my CC info, apparently they sent me an email requesting to confirm my CC (did not get any emails from them, and yes, I checked my junk/bulk folder). I called my CC company right away and was told that lenovo has contacted them and they approved the charge. I also checked all the info that they had on my profile e.g. billing/shipping addresses etc. Everything was fine. I called lenovo again, told them that my CC had all the correct info. The rep said that he would send a note to his credit card department and advised to call back in 24 hours to check if my order went through. Wednesday, I called to check it, no luck, still was on credit card hold. Thursday, same thing, Friday same thing. To sum up, I spent at least 3 hours on the phone with lenovo on each of these days: Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and 4 hours on Friday. I talked to variety of people: sales reps, customer service reps and supervisors. I even was transfered to the rep who deals with government purchases or something like that. He was just about to help me but his cellphone rang and he told me that there was nothing he could do. Eventually one of the sales reps was able to assist me. He did everything with me on the line, within 20 minutes. Turned out there was a simple solution to my problem but no one wanted to help me except the last rep. In fact, this rep is the reason I've decided to keep my orders. I could only wish all the reps were as helpful and professional as this guy is.

hay04002 wrote:Thank you guys for the replies.
Hopefully, I can have this solved on Monday, or I'll just return the machine.

i'm surprised this happened.   either way, you can probably (politely) threaten to send the machine back if they don't offer to fix the error.   it's only $49 so you should be able to find a CS rep or supervisor who will help you.   if you don't get anywhere then PM me and i'll give you the #s for two sales reps who i'm sure will be of assistance.

pianowizard wrote:What the OP did was smart, because the Vista COA and recovery discs will increase the laptop's resale value several years down the road.

i was simply curious.   i'm guilty of having the same basic idea as i bought my T61p with vista ultimate knowing that i'd most likely run server 2003 as my main OS.   the crazy part is that i'm actually starting to like vista and IIS7 -- i just wish i knew how stable they would prove to be over the long haul.

Since you do not wish to return the machine and re-order again so next time you call lenovo you can request for a Product Recovery disks for the license you paid for with your machine to compensate your loss. Lenovo should be able to accommodate your request.

erik wrote:either way, you can probably (politely) threaten to send the machine back if they don't offer to fix the error.

They were more than happy to let me return the whole machine!!! They were threating me, actually.
I just don't get it. I mean yes, it was a great deal for the machine. But so what! They poped
it out themselves, right? I payed the money I should and they should provide me the machine and service.
How come they are so willing to let me just return it?

ryengineer wrote:Since you do not wish to return the machine and re-order again so next time you call lenovo you can request for a Product Recovery disks for the license you paid for with your machine to compensate your loss.

Now I have some sort of sense for their "standard" processing procedure. You know what will happen? They will let me call the technical support again. Why? since the machine has been sold! If any thing goes wrong, you have to call the support first to get the F***ing case #, and apparently this will be a new case, right? You are asking for a recovery cd now! And and the technical support guy will tell you that their record shows that your machine was with Vista Home Basic, at best they can only offer the recovery cd for that Basic edtion, not mention that you may be asked to pay for the recovery cd! (That's what they told me exactly. After all the machine is with a Vista Home Basic sticker.) Okay, after several rounds of transfering back and forth, you know what, the rep will
tell you that he/she can do nothing for you, sorry! Your options will be 1)return the machine as a whole, 2) pay the extra $$$ to upgrade to the new operating system. Done!

Well, maybe I was just not lucky enough to get served well. Anyways, I just wanted to share my experience here, so next time when it happens to you guys, it can save your some time and energy. Keep it in mind: Get that magic case # first if any thing goes wrong AFTER you got the machine (or the machine has been shipped, no matter one minute later, ten days later, just AFTER...). Maybe there is only one exception: returning! I'm not sure.

try calling 800-426-7834 (option 72) for support.   you might have better luck.

This whole thing sounds ridiculous leaving you as the victim. If your invoice says Vista Home Premier edition and your t61 was delivered with basic then they owe you an os upgrade or a refund for the difference. You've wasted enough time with Lenovo's incompetence don't waste another second. Since you have absolute evidence of their error open a case with your credit card company. If it's not to late, have them hold payment until this is resolved. Credit Card laws were designed to protect the consumer. Let the credit card company do your fighting, the law is on your side.

hay04002 wrote: 2) what license is on the bottom of your thinkpad?
MS Vista Home Basic OEM

The bottom line is that in order to legally rectify your problem, Lenovo could do one of (2) things.
1.) Exchange the machine for a new one with the correct COA on their dime and at the original price.
2.) Send you the correct COA sticker for the machine along with a copy of Vista Home Premium recovery Discs.

I don't believe that a regular sales (or support) rep is going to help you with either items 1 or 2 because it is not standard procedure, in other words they probably don't have a procedure for it. Personally I'd start with Lenovo customer relations, and escalate from there if necessary.

hay04002 wrote:1) does your order show home premium and were you charged extra for it?
Yes, it does. I was charged by extra money.

any chance you can take a screenshot of your order showing home premium and a photo of the bottom of your thinkpad?   i'd think this would be enough proof for both lenovo and your CC company no matter how hard lenovo tries to fight it.

any chance you can take a screenshot of your order showing home premium and a photo of the bottom of your thinkpad?

Yea, absolutely I can.

What I'm worry about is that at the end they just ask me to return the machine! That's the best they can do to defend themselves. How about me? In that case, I'm still the victim! I lost the deal, waste my time and energy, then got nothing at all! How can I defend for myself?

Will the credit card company help? But the bill is already shown in the account.

Are you sure all this is worth the $38.00 difference? Is this the only issue or is there something else that is bothering you about the machine. My t60 2623D7U is running XP, Vista Business, OSX, Linux, 2003 Server (enterprise) and it came with XP. I guess my point is these machines are worth hanging on to as you can stick just about any OS on them and they'll run, if you're doing this strictly for the resale value as pointed out earlier, it can't possibly be that much of a difference to a prospective buyer, if they want that machine they'll take it. If you install XP on it that gives any potential buyer the option of XP and Vista, that's a huge selling point right there.

Are you sure all this is worth the $38.00 difference?

No, I'm not sure. If I were as wise as you are, I may just shut up and save the time, energy and my cellphone bill to enjoy my latest, fastest Thinkpad, not even made the first call to Lenovo! I respect your way of learning from life, but that's just not my way. I'm speaking it out because I want to share my feeling, my experience with others. After all, that's the key point we are all here, isn't it? We can still learn something from this case, at least how the company will care about their customers.

if you're doing this strictly for the resale value as pointed out earlier

I just couldn't see any clue how the case is related with resale value. Any hints?

I think it is not just about money. It's about one's principles.

The OP has every right to escalate this matter because it was purely Lenovo's fault for sending the machine with the wrong OS and failing to rectify the problem in a timely manner. Credit card companies usually ask the consumers to take "reasonable effort" to resolve the conflict before starting a case, but in this case the OP has clearly done more than his share.

I support the OP in starting a dispute with the credit card company. If the credit card company does not release payment to Lenovo, and Lenovo does nothing to resolve the conflict, the OP basically will have the computer for free. (Pretty low chance but possible!)

My friend, I'm not any wiser than anyone here, and I definately don't want to start a flame war with you, just asking a simple question, some would not get riled up, sorry.

I support the OP in starting a dispute with the credit card company. If the credit card company does not release payment to Lenovo, and Lenovo does nothing to resolve the conflict, the OP basically will have the computer for free. (Pretty low chance but possible!)

This is pretty heavy speculation.

Kyocera wrote:My friend, I'm not any wiser than anyone here, and I definately don't want to start a flame war with you, just asking a simple question, some would not get riled up, sorry.

I support the OP in starting a dispute with the credit card company. If the credit card company does not release payment to Lenovo, and Lenovo does nothing to resolve the conflict, the OP basically will have the computer for free. (Pretty low chance but possible!)

This is pretty heavy speculation.

No worries, dude. I'm all cool about it.

I agree it is VERY HEAVY speculation, bordering on fantasy. But hey, given Lenovo's bad record with the OP, there is a chance that this might happen!

If that does not happen, it means that Lenovo has resolved the conflict satisfactorily, eg sending a correct machine with the correct OS, with a prepaid box asking for the old machine back, so that the OP will not be out of a computer.

It's a win-win situation for the OP to let the credit card company fight for him. Not to mention the phone bills!

Hey hay04002, as much as I hate Lenovo’s customer service I must say, [censored] happens, they screwed up on that one, so what? They’ll probably fix it. If not you can contact your CC. It is not like they charged you more and you won’t see your $38 ever again. Eventually it will be resolved. The other question is should it take so much time and troubles to resolve this minor issue? Of course not! It is absolutely unacceptable, I feel your pain. Sometimes I just want to yell at the stupid rep who does not want to deal with my issue. There are some great reps out there working for Lenovo, you just need to be a little more patient and eventually one of these reps will solve your problem and you’ll forget about all those morons who could not do anything without a case # or whatever.

DranK wrote:Hey hay04002, as much as I hate Lenovo’s customer service I must say, [censored] happens, they screwed up on that one, so what? They’ll probably fix it. If not you can contact your CC. It is not like they charged you more and you won’t see your $38 ever again. Eventually it will be resolved. The other question is should it take so much time and troubles to resolve this minor issue? Of course not! It is absolutely unacceptable, I feel your pain. Sometimes I just want to yell at the stupid rep who does not want to deal with my issue. There are some great reps out there working for Lenovo, you just need to be a little more patient and eventually one of these reps will solve your problem and you’ll forget about all those morons who could not do anything without a case # or whatever.

That's right, waste more of you valuable time and patience dealing with this nonsense and hope that some salesman might actually help you. By all means don't call your Credit Card Company until it's to late for them to do anything. Bad advise DranK.

Or you could make one call to your CC and dispute the charge.
Make the call, you have everything to gain and absolutely nothing to lose.
And you are Completely In the Right so what's the problem?

hay04002 wrote: 4) if you planned to install XP then why didn't you order it with XP in the first place?
Because I have XP installation disc with me.

XP Install disc but what about the license?

Sorry to hear about your ordeal...best of luck!!

Lenovo is offering a "DOWNGRADE" option for those purchasing Vista Business or Ultimate. The Media you have to pay for...but I guess the license is "Free".

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... STA-DWNGRD

Just want to share my similar experience with Sony for a contrast. I ordered a Sony with DVD+/-RW; they sent me one with the DVD/CD-RW instead. I called them and with less than 10 mins total on the line, they just sent me a new DVD+/-RW next day shiping, with no request to return the CD-RW one.

From my later experience with Lenovo, I think Lenovo's customer service has dropped dramatically. Someone in the forum once suggested me if I call and meet a terrible rep, just hang up and call again until you find the one who's willing to help, and keep his/her ext# for future reference.

I'm not sure to second you to go thru with the CC dispute, at least until you try the above. Yes, you have the case, but it will probably be a longer fight.

I bought my first Thinkpad back in March of this year. I have only had to call about 2 issues and both times the reps have been very unhelpful and rude. I love my machine but I have definitely lost faith in Lenovo.

mightaswell wrote:I bought my first Thinkpad back in March of this year. I have only had to call about 2 issues and both times the reps have been very unhelpful and rude. I love my machine but I have definitely lost faith in Lenovo.

For future reference when you purchased your Thinkpad did you order it online or via a phonecall to a salesperson?

NaT wrote:Someone in the forum once suggested me if I call and meet a terrible rep, just hang up and call again until you find the one who's willing to help, and keep his/her ext# for future reference.

you should not have to do that.

Just want you guys know the result.

Well, I just called Lenovo again. After one and half hours calling and waiting, the issue has been finally solved. They gave me the returning reference # and placed a new order with the same price and same configuration. I can expect a long waiting again for the new machine


That might be my last thinkpad from Lenovo. That's all.