Thinkpads Forum

T4x T6x LCD, Cable Assembly, Inverter Swap? Tech Difference?

Has anyone ever swapped any of the above between a T4x and a T6x series laptop?

If not, can anyone with some LCD related knowledge shed light on the following:

How has the CPU MB > Video Card > Inverter > Cable Assembly > LCD - technology changed esp from T4x to T6x generations?
Are the ports / plugs / pins / cables / voltages different?

I am thinking just like CRTs have had a standard plug system and current Standalone LCD screens have connections that are standard - DVI, Analog etc. even the laptop LCD to Laptop Machine should be pretty standard?

I am wondering if cross Series T4x v/s T6x Video Cables and Inverters would be compatible for the relevant SXGA+ & UXGA screens? Any thoughts?

I know that the FRUs are different entirely. The boards look identical, but they are slightly different and mount differently on the LCD panel covers.

There are two large mechanical obstacles to swapping LCD assemblies as described in your note:
1) The LCD cable connectors to the motherboards are different and not "swappable", and
2) The geometries of the cable routing to/from the respective LCD panels and motherboards do not match and cannot be "stretched" to accomplish the desired task.

Alexander Heß wrote:So…

14" UXGA in a T60p… anyone?

Thats where my R&D is focussed at this point. I've created this Master Excel Sheet to figure out compatible:

Laptop Series
Video Cards
Inverter Models
Cable Assemblies
LCDs

MM - FRUs are different and thats something I've accepted as reality. Part of the fact that the R50 UXGA Cable was successfully used in a 14.1" UXGA LCD in the recent hacks leads me to believe in the 'standardization' of these things - Ofcourse, we do not quite understand it that well as the guys who DESIGN laptop systems for the major manufacturers and how they SOURCE & SPEC parts from their vendors - et al Rosetta Net.

EOMtp wrote:There are two large mechanical obstacles to swapping LCD assemblies as described in your note:
1) The LCD cable connectors to the motherboards are different and not "swappable", and
2) The geometries of the cable routing to/from the respective LCD panels and motherboards do not match and cannot be "stretched" to accomplish the desired task.

1) There in lies the biggest problem with the 'standards based plugs' that i was hoping for.

2) Hmm.. probably an easier task if the PLUGs matched.

Now the question is.. Is there a 14.1" UXGA laptop in the market today... at all?

EOMtp wrote:There are two large mechanical obstacles to swapping LCD assemblies as described in your note:
1) The LCD cable connectors to the motherboards are different and not "swappable", and
2) The geometries of the cable routing to/from the respective LCD panels and motherboards do not match and cannot be "stretched" to accomplish the desired task.

When you say the connectors to the MBs are different can you point out in the following CHAIN of parts (marking them bold / red / green) which of the following >> have changed..? Which parts might be swappable /similar?

CPU MB >> Video Card >> Inverter >> Cable Assembly >> LCD

crashnburn wrote:Now the question is.. Is there a 14.1" UXGA laptop in the market today... at all?

today, no, but the dell inspiron 4100 had a 14.1" UXGA panel.

LCD Panel connection similarity - Cable Assembly & Inverter

For this post I am going to refer to the linked diagrams.
1) 14.1inch LCD service parts - ThinkPad T40/p, T41/p, T42/p

2) 14.1 inch LCD service parts - ThinkPad T43/p

3) 14.1 inch LCD service parts - ThinkPad T60, T60p

4) 14.1 inch LCD service parts - ThinkPad T61, T61p 14.1inch standard screen

After having looked at the LCD Panel & diagrams I see that it has 2 connection points to the laptop system
1. The Socket on the back side of the panel where the LCD Cable Assembly PLUGs in. The other end of the cable assembly plugs into the system board.
2. The 2 tiny colored wires that come out from near the bottom right corner of the LCD panel that plugs into the Inverter module.

Now - The objective is to figure out if the following items
- LCD Panels SOCKET (at the back)
- Cable Assembly PLUGS (that plug into the back)
- LCD Panel Inverter Plug (at the bottom right)
- Inverter Module SOCKET

are same / similar on the T4x series v/s the T6x series.

I know that the LCD cable assemblies are shaped differently and plug into different locations on the system board, BUT from what I see the SOCKET in the back and the PLUG at the bottom right are in the same LOCATION of the LCD Panel. ( I hope I am right on this one -) Even if they are in slightly off I am hoping that they are similar in technology.

Any thoughts?

WAYS TO CHECK:
- Crack open a T6x and see the LCD
- Handle a spare LCD Panel and see what the plugs look like

I do not have a T6x so I would request the forum members for some help in doing a comparative.

EOMtp wrote:There are two large mechanical obstacles to swapping LCD assemblies as described in your note:
1) The LCD cable connectors to the motherboards are different and not "swappable", and
2) The geometries of the cable routing to/from the respective LCD panels and motherboards do not match and cannot be "stretched" to accomplish the desired task.

I know these 2 issues exist. But my guess is that the SOCKET & PLUG are the same.

Troels wrote:The T60p had used the Flexviews for T43ps for quite a long time it seems, not just the last batches used the IDtechs from the T43ps either.
I have not disassembled my LCD lid, but as both the BOE-Hydis and IDtech are 30-pin, they have the exact same pinout and are positioned in the same region on both panels. No soldering needed, just gently remove or insert the cable.

Troels - Can you point out and elaborate please? I'd like to see which T60s were these and how they were different / similar to the T43s before them and the T60s after them.

what is your exact goal in doing all of this research?

perhaps after we know what you're trying to accomplish then we can be of better help.

Pianowizard manged to install a (dell) 14" UXGA panel on his T4x ... I dont think there is a UXGA 14" laptop available today.

PW's post is here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=47899

gator wrote:Pianowizard manged to install a (dell) 14" UXGA panel on his T4x ... I dont think there is a UXGA 14" laptop available today.

PW's post is here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=47899

Installing that very same UXGA LCD in a T6x series. That is the goal.

I am trying to see if its doable.

why not just buy the panel from someone with a good return policy and try it for yourself?

pianowizard had to use a 15.0" flexview cable and fold it to work, so you'll probably also need a 15.0" flexview cable.   you're sailing uncharted waters here and will likely have to throw some money at the project rather than relying on diagrams and anecdotal evidence.

my gut feeling is that the biggest hurdle will be the cable.

erik wrote:why not just buy the panel from someone with a good return policy and try it for yourself?....you're sailing uncharted waters here and will likely have to throw some money at the project rather than relying on diagrams and anecdotal evidence.

That's exactly what I've been trying to tell him. crashnburn, you need to buy a few parts and try them for yourself. These parts don't cost that much money. And if they turn out not to work, you can sell them and recover most of the money you spent. The kind of "research" you're doing takes a lot of time (both your time and others') and after half a year you may still not have any definitive answers.

Laptop modification is a fun hobby, but it does cost some money. If you're unwilling to take a few risks, this hobby isn't for you.

pianowizard wrote:

erik wrote:why not just buy the panel from someone with a good return policy and try it for yourself?....you're sailing uncharted waters here and will likely have to throw some money at the project rather than relying on diagrams and anecdotal evidence.

That's exactly what I've been trying to tell him. crashnburn, you need to buy a few parts and try them for yourself. These parts don't cost that much money. And if they turn out not to work, you can sell them and recover most of the money you spent. The kind of "research" you're doing takes a lot of time (both your time and others') and after half a year you may still not have any definitive answers.

Laptop modification is a fun hobby, but it does cost some money. If you're unwilling to take a few risks, this hobby isn't for you.

I just do not have the bandwidth to try things just like that. I like to have my "information" in hand before I jump in - i.e. an open laptop and all its parts, screws etc sitting on my desk. I'd rather gather my information accurately and then make the physical moves.

Also, I dont think at this point is a "fun" thing since all I want is to have a 'custom laptop' that is something I cannot buy off the market.

I understand and respect your thoughts. I might eventually do that.. get all the physicals. But, I'd rather dig for some information before instead of having items sitting in front of me and not having done my homework.

crashnburn wrote:I understand and respect your thoughts. I might eventually do that.. get all the physicals. But, I'd rather dig for some information before instead of having items sitting in front of me and not having done my homework.

what information are you looking for that hasn't already been presented?   how long do you plan to dig before finally buying parts?   at what point will you decide between giving up or making an investment?

i can almost guarantee that no one here will suddenly pipe up and say, "yes, this will work without issue and (insert parts here) are exactly what you need."   even if someone says that the plugs are 100% identical then you'll still need to source out a working cable.   no matter what you'll have to throw some money at the project to both correctly and completely answer your questions.   as the saying goes, "you have to pay to play."

crashnburn, you won't lose as much money as you think, assuming you don't accidentally break anything during the upgrade. You already have a T43. Buy a Dell Inspiron 4100 with 14.1" UXGA (~$250 to $350), a UXGA LCD cable for 15.0" Thinkpads ($30?), and a UXGA inverter for Thinkpads ($20?). Try the swap. If it doesn't work, sell the Dell laptop for the same price you got it for, and the cable and inverter for maybe 50% less than their original prices. This way, you will lose only around $30. I don't think it's worth doing months of research just to save $30. This was the thought process that I went through prior to trying the mod on my T42.

Its not a money loss thing. I just do not want the hassle of buying & selling as well as going through the mess of a HARDWARE project that was not successful.

PW - Point taken. I have already bought a couple of these items to do the T4x mod.

My curiosity is now going towards the T6x - Which I do not have and might buy ONLY IF I am more convinced.. At this point I am not.

If someone has checked out or has a T6x that they can check, thats the help I hope to get. If not, I'll dig information till I am convinced enough to buy a T6x and go Butcher on it.

crashnburn wrote:Troels - Can you point out and elaborate please? I'd like to see which T60s were these and how they were different / similar to the T43s before them and the T60s after them.

Missed your post sorry,
These seem to be just random T60ps that were built after the beginning of 2007, all the 2623-DDU built in April 2007 which was the last UXGA flexview batch to be made apparently, all came with idtechs - the exact same part manufacturer part. no as found in T43p and T42p actually - N150U3-L01. Mine is a NOS idtech, manufacturered in week 1 2006, i.e. one of the last batches of idtechs, since their facilities were sold to sony in december 2005, which planned mass production in Apr 2006 of small LCDs in the same facilities.
I believe user WarrenInDe has a 2008-YE5 which also features an Idtech which was from winter 2007.
As it is the same screen, it leads me to believe that it is just fitted with the UXGA T60p cable.

Troels wrote:

crashnburn wrote:Troels - Can you point out and elaborate please? I'd like to see which T60s were these and how they were different / similar to the T43s before them and the T60s after them.

Missed your post sorry,
These seem to be just random T60ps that were built after the beginning of 2007, all the 2623-DDU built in April 2007 which was the last UXGA flexview batch to be made apparently, all came with idtechs - the exact same part manufacturer part. no as found in T43p and T42p actually - N150U3-L01. Mine is a NOS idtech, manufacturered in week 1 2006, i.e. one of the last batches of idtechs, since their facilities were sold to sony in december 2005, which planned mass production in Apr 2006 of small LCDs in the same facilities.
I believe user WarrenInDe has a 2008-YE5 which also features an Idtech which was from winter 2007.
As it is the same screen, it leads me to believe that it is just fitted with the UXGA T60p cable.

Thanks Troels. All these veterans here on this side of the pond and the most insightful information comes from you.. all the way out in Denmark - One of the friendliest people on the planet.

Now I need to find someone who would be brave enough to open the lid & verify the parts - inverter, screen, cable.

BTW - Do the part numbers show up on your "thinkpad parts list" when you put the information into IBM website?

Could you post that "tech part FRU CRU list" output from your machine?

Gee thanks .. well there are also extremely outrageous people over here, but i bet it ever will be international news material...

Anyways, with the T4x, the cable FRU part number was printed on a sticked near the connector on the mainboard. I haven't looked, but i'll need to reseat the ... palmrest assembly this weekend so i'll look for it.

Here's my total parts list, but i don't see a LCD cable assy or inverter mentioned anywhere.

I bought the UXGA panel for the Dell just a couple of days ago.

Installed it into my 14" T60p: no go.


All the connectors work, the panel mounts fin into the case albeit a bit heavier/thicker.

But then I read the post in this forum that the 15" cable is needed for the job. (Is this because the more bandwidth is needed?). In any case I will buy a 15" T60 cable, and try my luck.

One thing that I did notice is that the backlight didn't come on with the startup, but this may be because it is hooked to the LCD cable itself.

amuraivel wrote:Installed it into my 14" T60p: no go.

Of course that won't work. This T60p's cable can only drive a 1400x1050 LCD, not a 1600x1200 one.

The 15" cable is on its way--I found a good deal on eBay.

This was my mistake apparently, the question is whether the inverter will power the display.

I was under the impression that single channel LVDS can only run up to 1280x800, but now it is clear that UXGA is dual channel LVDS because its resolution is greater than 1400x1050. I am guessing the 15" cable is dual channel LVDS.

Now the big question remains whether the 14" T60p SXGA+ inverter will power an older panel.

Keep us posted on all your experiments; I should have word in a week whether this works.

Apparently the SXGA+ inverter from the t42 SXGA+ worked with the higher res panel.

I hope for the same here. Even if I am not sure the 15" inverter would fit in the case---I just hope the 14" inverter and 15" cable can mate.

If someone had the exact dimensions (mm) for the 15" inverter, that would be great to know whether there would even be a possibility of exchanging the inverters.

At the very least, i hope that i get a picture on the screen.

I would not risk exchanging the inverter, or hack an inverter used for a 15" with a 14".
Unless you know the ignition voltage and it's inrush current, don't swap it. All the inverter does has nothing to do about the screen reolution - it has signalling going to the mainboard to allow for ACPI features, screen backlight turn off and CCFL dimming.

For the 15" UXGA/SXGA+ IPS it's max 2kV and 20 mA

For another random TN panel, also 15", XGA: ~1.65kV, 20 mA

LTD141LA2A from TMD is a XGA 14" which requires min. 1.5V, but specifies no max. and so on. Reading their datasheet btw, reveals that this is a class B panel which must have grossly many defective pixels to be returned - up to 20 defective subpixels .

See more at http://www.beyondinfinite.com/library.html

I forgot to check the cable number when i took off the palmrest and keyboard. d'oh!

Thanks for the link to the panel info.

I have been looking for panel specifications all over.
The panel I purchased TX36D58VC1CAA is not listed amongst the documents.

But if I understand your point correctly, you are saying that all of the panels have approximately the same inverter so there shouldn't be that much of a difference.

Any luck with the new cable ?

Thanks for asking, I just tried the day before yest.

Bad news for all those T60 14" people:

The panel didn't work in my machine.

The cable from the 15" T60 is swappable with the 14" model (a bit long), and that cable works with the

It could have been the "class A" LCD panel (but this I highly doubt because I bought it from a reputable dealer on eBay, and it is black just like when I don't connect my normal panel.)

It could be the inverter if someone has a spare inverter for the 15" panel I could try it because the connectors mate with the 14" cable--but the advice is apparently against this.

My guess is that the original T42 had the option of a UXGA panel, so the LVDS signal was designed to handle the higher res. panel as well (is there some sort of detection mechanism)--this was never the case with the T60. I did read somewhere that the lenovo firmware doesn't play nice with generic parts (e.g. atheros card)--maybe it is something like that.

I am really disappointed because this was going to make or break whether I upgrade from this machine or not (after the panel, then the CPU)

I am all ears for advice.

Otherwise, I now have a 14" UXGA panel in superb condition for sale....

We could set up a private auction, or i can split the difference on ebay/paypal fees with someone.

Something I heard from the Chinese forum says that there is nothing to do with the cable or inverter in T6x series. Now they all use the same cable, and the computer will get info from the panel itself. They say there is something called SPD on the panel, and if you wanna make it work, the SPD must have info about the LCD panel itself. For example, you cannot simply swap a 15" QXGA panel with a UXGA panel in T60 since the QXGA panel shipped by IBM/lenovo doesn't have anything inside its SPD. You can certainly add this info by doing some hacks, but then it requires the knowledge of hacking the SPD and the knowledge of what should be added into the SPD.

However, T4x series deal with this issue in another way. They don't try to access the SPD to get the info of the panel, instead they store the info in the cable or whatever... That's why you need to swap the cable since only the cable for 15" T4x has the info about UXGA and QXGA.

So my guess is: the panel you got didn't have LCD info stored in the SPD. That's why it doesn't work.

So you read Chinese?

Kudos.

Sounds like a very plausible theory, and sort of fits with the other things I heard about Lenovo hardware.

I don't think a hack for the SPD is within my technical range of expertise--I don't think I would have the equipment (I am at a technical university though so if I got very specific instructions on how to do it I might try because I have the panel anyway.)