Thinkpads Forum

Hello,

I have just received my new T61 whose main characteristics are the following:

ThinkPad T61 2 GHz 2Duo 1G RAM 80GB 14.1" XGA CDRW/DVD VISTA FR

I don't know anything about Vista because I'm a linux user but I have to share this computer with my wife who would prefer to keep Windows.

I have the following problem: it is extremely slow (around 10 minutes to start completely even all the updates are done).

Some people tell me 1G Ram is not enough for Vista and I should move to XP or add 1G ram.

But this operation won't be for free (I would have to buy a XP license or to buy 1G ram). I don't really understand why I should buy news things while my computer is completely new !

Before buying these things I would like to have some advice: couldn't be any hidden problem why the computer is so low (and not related to the "small" RAM) ?

If not what would be the best (cheapest) solution: move to XP or buy RAM ?

Finally one positive aspect: I really appreciate to have discovered that such an active community exists !

Thanks

Buy RAM. You can probably get another 1 GB stick for less than $30.

1 Gb of ram should run Vista (more won't hurt, but 1 Gb is enough). One major thing that impedes Vista (new out of the box) from starting quickly is the Search function. I have that same function running on XP on my Laptop, and it is DOG slow until and unless you start your machine, wait for a half-hour to hour for it to index completely and finish. Try that.

Second, newer ThinkPads are coming with loads of stuff you don't need: Trials for Office 2007, Picassa, and a plethora of other tools you may or may not need ALL with auto updates turned on and ALL trying to update at the same time when you start.

So the second thing to do once indexing is complete is to look through Add Remove Programs, and uninstall what you do not need. For example, I did not need:
Office 2007 Trial (I use Office 2003)
Picassa (don't need it)
Symantec Trial License (Good product, but I have a Corp. license)
CSS (disable)
ThinkVantage Updater (A tool that has NEVER worked properly)

Further, I turned off (prevented from starting) a number of things like Sonic update, and then turned off the update functions in a number of other tools (SUN Java, Adobe, Windows Auto Update, and so on).

Once that was all done, the T60 I was working on starts reasonable quickly (as fast as needed) and performs very well. Albeit it was an XP machine by purchase requirement, I didn't need to spend money once it was set up properly.

... JDH

1GB could be enough for XP, but 2GB does make a huge difference when running VISTA. 3GB and 4GB will make VISTA even better.

When my T60 first came with 1GB, it was slow. And I can't really load many apps. My T60 became a working horse only after it's been upgraded to 1GBx2. Now It has 3GB installed and it (Vista 64-bit) doesn't slow a little when I am runing two Virtual Machines, a number of IE/Firefox windows, Office 2003 and Adobe Premiere Pro all at the same time.

Follow jdhurst's advice or upgrade to at least 2GB could improve your experiences with VISTA.

you said you don't understand why you should buy anthing for your new computer when it's new. Well you can say that for anything new that you buy, manufacturers offer options for people that want them If you don't want to pay for the extra (they don't just charge more for stuff just because, they actually have usage) then you don't get the extra power (in this case) others would have.

All the stuff listed above about removing programs (CSS being the big one) is the first things to do but RAM is DEFINITELY a huge deal. You don't think it is but Vista uses the HD alot more when you only have 1GB of RAM. as we know HDs are slow compared to RAM so the boost you get with more RAM is much nicer. Vista doesn't use the HD for memory once you have a good amount of RAM in your computer. Stop by a shop or better yet, go online and buy you some RAM, best $30 you'd have spent even for a $2000 computer.

Thanks for all this very useful comments.

First, jdhurst, your first comment describes well my situation: after half an hour it works well, then I am looking for the solution to prevent this Search function from starting automatically. I will also do all the operations ou suggest. Thanks a lot !

Then, crazyfrog and Pocket Aces, thanks for your advice, I just have to see if my waranty is still valid if I add some Ram.

Finally, SHoTTa35, I philosophically completely agree, the manufacturer offers the cheapest well working solution and you can add some options if you want. The point for me is that more than 10 minutes to start properly is not a well working solution in my opinion. But thank you for giving me your point of view !

Thanks all, again, I will do these things and post again when finished !

Adding some RAM will not void your warranty. Like others said Vista WILL run on 1 GB but it will run better on 2 or 3GB.

All Vista computers are a little slow at first while Vista does the index thing. My T61p hardrive ran like crazy for an hour or two after I first turned it on and then it calmed to normal and was ready to work. I have purchased several Vista machines, laptops and desktops and it has been the same with all of them.

Stick some more RAM in your laptop and it will be faster.

One solution to the search problem is to just put your machine to hibernate or sleep instead of shutting it down. It's a laptop and the idea of booting it up each time just drives me crazy. My system has probably been on for about 33 days now non-stop and it still runs like when i rebooted it. The only time i do reboot is when there's a update that requires that and i haven't had one of those for a while.


Adding the RAM tho is definitely the best thing you can do. I use Vista on a T60 and my HD light hardly ever blinks, even when i open Word 2007. It opens in about 1 second also.

Ok thanks for all these answers again.
I will consider the fact off adding some ram, I promise.
One problem I see in this hibernation approach is that it could be dangerous for transport, could'nt be ?
Finally I am trying to remove useless programs for me and useless automatic starting program, but it is a bit slow (because of my usual OS, see my first post !). I would like to prevent Diskeeper from starting automatically, has it something to do with this searching function lister before by jdhurst ?

Thanks all again, really !

hibernating the system be dangerous? How so? It saves the contents of the RAM to the HD and shuts the computer off completely as if you'd shut it down. There's no difference. If the system doesn't boot properly the next time because of some failure, it'll dump the RAM to HD storage and then just boot Windows normally like before.

Ok thanks, then this hibernation solution seems convenient.
Does someone know a good tutorial or list or anything else that could help me in choosing which programs I could remove/or remove form automatic start ? There a a lot of programs i really dont know !
Thanks a lot

You can buy 2 GB of PC-5300 RAM for laptops on www.newegg.com for about $40 including shipping. For the price, might as well go with the extra 2GB.

If you install Windows Live OneCare there is a section where you can turn off programs at Startup. Most you can turn off.

dfumento wrote:You can buy 2 GB of PC-5300 RAM for laptops on www.newegg.com for about $40 including shipping. For the price, might as well go with the extra 2GB.

If you install Windows Live OneCare there is a section where you can turn off programs at Startup. Most you can turn off.

Just avoid the KINGSTON memory and the T60p. They don't always LIKE each other very much.

guillaume_tt wrote:Does someone know a good tutorial or list or anything else that could help me in choosing which programs I could remove/or remove form automatic start ?

Go to http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-68156
This document shows you what you can change in Vista in order to improve performance.

You might have Vista 64 and I guess that Vista 64 might use more memory than Vista 32. If I remember correctly, a moderator in this forum said that his T61, running Vista 64, uses 1.4 GB of RAM or more, just to show the desktop after booting. I would first disable those services
- which Lenovo suggests you can disable
- AND which you feel you won't need in the future.

If the computer is still sluggish after that, get more RAM. The chipset will deliver optimal RAM performance only if both RAM modules have the same amount of memory. But I think it's more important to get more memory than having exactly the same capacity in both modules.

I would leave automatic updates for Windows turned on and upgrade to Microsoft Update. The update function in Adobe Reader can be set to just check for available updates and to ask you if you want to download and install. I would also keep ThinkVantage System Update on the computer. I didn't have any problems with it so far.

TTY wrote: You might have Vista 64 and I guess that Vista 64 might use more memory than Vista 32. If I remember correctly, a moderator in this forum said that his T61, running Vista 64, uses 1.4 GB of RAM or more, just to show the desktop after booting.

64 bit OS's use more memory due to increased register sizes, but that has some decent benefits, or it will soon enough.

guillaume_tt wrote:If not what would be the best (cheapest) solution: move to XP or buy RAM ?

Buy more RAM, its fairly inexpensive at the moment.

Re the "new" configuration, for a ThinkPad its always going to be a compromise between a bunch of different needs for ease of use, performance, functionality etc..... so many users will need to do a bit of tweaking to get the "out of the box" system configured optimally for their particular need.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Thanks a lot !
First I am reading all your suggestions and improving my Windows knowledge to shut down the programs I don't need.
Then (I said I promise !) I have considered the fact of adding Ram, and I have chosen to do it. I think I will choose this:

1GB PC2-5300 CL5 Non-Parity DDR2 SDRAM SODIMM Memory - 667 MHz (ThinkPad)

It is said to work for these computers:

T60, T60p, X60, R60, Z61 (t/m)

Do you think it works for my T61 ?

Again thanks a lot

Remember that if you now have two modules with 512 MB each, you will have to remove one of them to add RAM. Installling a 1 GB module would then increase total RAM by 0.5 GB and would leave you with 1.5 GB memory. If you have Vista 64, 1.5 GB might be too little for Vista and several applications to run well simultaneously. Check in Task Manager how much memory your computer uses now. If possible, start the applications you want to be able to run simultaneously and check memory use again. If memory use is near 1.5 GB now already, I would suggest that you increase RAM by more than 0.5 GB.

Ok thanks, I have to find if I have 2*512 or 1*1.
I thougt it is compulsory to have to times the same, for example that 1Go+0.5Go would in fact give only 1Go, is that wrong ?
Thanks a lot

You don't need to have the same amount of memory in both slots. If you have 1 GB in the first slot and 0.5 GB in the second slot, the computer will be able to use 1.5 GB of RAM.

guillaume_tt wrote:Ok thanks, I have to find if I have 2*512 or 1*1.
I thougt it is compulsory to have to times the same, for example that 1Go+0.5Go would in fact give only 1Go, is that wrong ?
Thanks a lot

you can use crucial.com scanner to check your system. it's show you what you currently have installed or you could (get some practice to) open the machine and see for yourself. You will be doing it later on anyways so just do it now

And one more thing: Whatever you do, don't buy the ram from Lenovo. You actually were smart to buy a machine with a small amount of ram because it is far more expensive to get it from Lenovo. You can get just as good ram as Lenovo ram, aftermarket from places like Newegg.com. Ram for your machine is so cheap aftermarket right now that you might as well just go ahead and buy a matched set of 2 two GB sticks aftermarket for about $80 or so, and be done with it for ever. Your machine will definitely run better and be useful longer. JMHO.

Ok thanks a lot all !

I have a few last question and comments to do.

1- In fact after removing a few useless programs, I'm still around 600Mo Ram always used. So i need more ram. I have one free slot (thanks SHoTTa35 for crucial.com) then I will buy 1Gb more. Thanks pae77 for saying I am smart but thats wrong: all this was not on purpose . I have to check again but I think I will buy lenovo ram, because I have heard they wont guarantee your computer anymore if you install other Ram (someone confirms ?). I can buy this ram:
1GB PC2-5300 CL5 Non-Parity DDR2 SDRAM SODIMM Memory - 667 MHz (ThinkPad)
But it is said to work for T60: will it work for my T61 ?

2. Thanks for the guy whose signature (in an other forum I first went to) is someting like "forum.thinkpads.com, best thinkpad forum" otherwise I would never have came here !

3. As i said i am usually a linux user (except with this new thinkpad). I am interested to have informations, explanations... about my big question: why is vista so power demanding !!! Is it really useful ? and so on... (see my first post)

4. I am interested in a tutorial, if it exists, that shows how to add ram (procedure...). Otherwise I will experiment !

Thanks all !
(Good morning-evening-night...)

guillaume_tt wrote:4. I am interested in a tutorial, if it exists, that shows how to add ram (procedure...)

There is a movie showing how to do this for the T60 available on the Lenovo support site, and the process is essentially identical for the T61... http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-63959

There is a written description for the T61 here.... http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67764

Basically you need to remove the palm rest to get at the memory slots.

Cheers,

Bill B.

In your first post, you said:

I have the following problem: it is extremely slow (around 10 minutes to start completely even all the updates are done).

The reason why the computer needs a long time to start, might not be a lack of RAM. The fact that you see hard disk activity for a long time after a fresh start could have to do with the way Vista handles RAM. After you have started the computer, Vista will load. If there is any free RAM left when Vista has finished loading, Vista will start loading software which it thinks you might want to use. So Vista will fill up nearly all available RAM. The more RAM you have, the longer you will see hard disk activity after a fresh start of Vista. But getting another GB of memory might still be a good idea.

1. I have a little "Multimeter" gauge on my desktop that constantly shows me, among other things, how much ram is being used. Under normal usage, my vista system rarely uses more than 54% of my system ram, so I don't think vista is trying to use all available ram on my system.

2. Installation of non Lenovo ram will not void or affect the warranty on the rest of your system, (but of course Lenovo will not provide warranty coverage for the non Lenovo ram). I suggest buying ram from a reputable company (there are many) that offers a lifetime warranty on their ram and sells the ram for a fraction of what Lenovo sells it for. You are just wasting money buying ram from Lenovo. Essentially, the exact same stuff is available for much less aftermarket.

Ok thanks
I have bought a non lenovo ram from a good company and I am waiting for receiving it... we will see !

pae77 wrote:1. I have a little "Multimeter" gauge on my desktop that constantly shows me, among other things, how much ram is being used. Under normal usage, my vista system rarely uses more than 54% of my system ram, so I don't think vista is trying to use all available ram on my system.

Leave your computer turned on till the hard disk doesn't show any substantial activity any more. Then open Task Manager, click the "Performance" tab. The "Memory" graph shows how much memory Vista and the applications, which currently run, are using. This will probably be the same as your multimeter gauge shows. Then look at the table called "Physical Memory". The "Total" will show 4096 MB or a little less on your computer. The "Free" value in the "Physical Memory" table will probably be significantly smaller than what you would expect, considering the value shown by the "Memory" graph. The reason for this is something which i believe Microsoft calls SuperFetch. It is described as:

"SuperFetch monitors which applications you use the most and preloads these into your system memory so they'll be ready when you need them."

This preloading takes place directly after Vista has finished booting. Users, who don't know about SuperFetch, will get the impression that booting Vista takes very long, just because they see hard disk activity for a long time after they have turned the computer on. I wish Vista would have a way of telling the user when it has finished booting.

I see what you mean about the "free" memory. Interesting.

In any event, I wouldn't describe my boot time as especially slow despite whatever vista's superfetch is doing in the background, but I guess, as you say, this could cause some to get the wrong impression.

Even though my system boots fairly quickly, most of the time I just resume from "sleep" which is quite snappy compared to rebooting and I would recommend trying that to the OP.

@TTY: you´re pretty right! The HD activity after booting (in sense of Vista Superfetch) lasts a few minutes, but it makes Vista run really fast after that. What is more, the RAM usage gets optimized in the meantime, so after superfetch has finished its job, the amount of system memory used by Vista could drop under 600MB (depending on what processes you have running in the background with Vista startup). The other 400 MB are then free for other apps. So, guillaume_tt, 1 GB of system memory should do.
You may also try TuneXP v1.5. It´s free and offers a feature called Ultrafast Booting. This feature rearranges the files needed for Vista to boot up using Vista built-in defrag engine. It takes about an hour to complete the process, after that you have to reboot. Just open the task manager and wait until the defrag processes disappear, then reboot. Note v1.5 is the only version that is known to work well under Vista.
As to RAM amount, my own experience is that with MS Office Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Latex, Gretl, ICQ, Skype and IE (with 2-3 tabs) opened at the same time RAM usage stays below 1GB. So you shouldn´t have any probs with multitasking in that range.

Good luck!

Marin

P.S. I guess the bootup has finished when the battery gauge and (in my case) ATI CC are shown in the system tray and the amount of utilized system memory has dropped from 1GB to 750MB.