Thinkpads Forum

Hi all,

This is my first time posting in quite a while - I've had my ThinkPad T60 since June of 2006 and while it's been overall pretty reliable from a hardware perspective, the ThinkVantage software, from my personal experience, has been a complete disaster.

When I first received my laptop, I was intrigued by the novelty of all of the features and excited to implement them into my daily computing. However, after a few months of usage, I began to notice a long list of issues:

1. The CSS / password manager was very buggy and never allowed me to use the fingerprint reader for anything more than logging into windows (and this could be sidestepped by just ctrl-alt-del and typing in my password, so pretty much a worthless extra feature). I could never finger-print protect folders or subsitute browser-based login/password accounts with a swipe of the finger print reader. It was good for nothing other than logging onto windows!

2. In IE, I would visit the same 5-10 sites with login/password access and it would ask me to save password profiles for those sites every time I visited them, long after I had profiles saved for all of them. The CSS / pw manager never even worked with Firefox.

3. Pressing the Fn key to recover from hibernation mode only worked about 50% of the time.

4. If I switch from AC adapter to solely battery powered operation, my machine would sometimes begin to experience substantial lag and a "stop-and-go"-type performance, forcing me to reboot to regain normal operation. (likely a function of buggy Power Manager software)

5. My trackpoint navigator would sometimes drag and linger in a certain direction by itself seconds after I had released all pressure - this would be especially true if it was not placed on a 100% flat surface - i.e. on my lap! (this was my one real hardware issue)

Overall, minor annoyances, but definitely issues that had made me feel like I had overpaid for advanced functionality that wasn't exactly advanced.... just over-hyped and poorly developed.

So about 6 months ago, I ran the ThinkVantage System Update in hopes that new updates had been released which would resolve these issues. While some of these problems were in fact fixed, new ones arised.

1. My Fn-F# keys all stopped functioning. Regardless of whether I pressed Fn-F2/F3/F4/F5/F7/F8/F9, the only menu that would be initiated would be Access Connections.

2. When operating using just a battery pack (no ac adapter), recovering from hibernation mode would result in my desktop resolution going from the default 1400 x 1050 to 800 x 600. If I would then go manually reset the resolution back to 1400 x 1050, I would notice a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in my refresh rate, which would force me to reboot my computer.

3. My power manager profiles seemed to all change. Previous power settings which had historically made my laptop operate at a lower temperature now resulted in very high temperatures.

4. By this point I had already given up using the finger print reader for anything more logging onto windows, but I doubt the updates resulted in any added funcationality.

Then, just a few weeks ago, I decided to run System Update again. Another disastrous experience... My access connections stopped working completely, my desktop resolution problem remained, and, after calling support in Atlanta, I was told that System Update does not know how to install ThinkVantage updates in the correct order. I was told that in order to enable my Access Connections program to work, I would need to reinstall my Power Manager drivers, then my Thinkpad Hotkey Utility drivers and then my wireless drivers - in that EXACT order, otherwise it would continue to not work. I asked him what was the purpose of an application update utility that could not update correctly and all he said was "Don't ever run System Update, it's just not smart - my philosophy is if it isn't broke, don't fix it."

Now this might seem like just a complaint thread, but what I'm really wondering is - how many of you have had an equally poor experience with the ThinkVantage software suite? I really feel like a major reason for the premium price of our notebooks is the advanced functionality that is supposed to be provided by our ThinkVantage software. If this is the case, then why does it seem like it was such an afterthought for the thinkpad designers / developers? Never have I had such problems with a suite of software... and I was a beta tester for Windows 98!

Finally, if there's some really simple way to keep all of my ThinkVantage software running smoothly with all of its intended functionality (and with all of the latest updates) that I've been blind enough to miss, PLEASE DO LET ME KNOW! I'd really like to get the chance to make the most out of my $2k investment, but so far I've had nothing but regrets.

Thanks all.

thanks for taking the time to list out the items in detail.

and, I thought some of the items were just my PC!

thanks for the system update warnings. since my PC is running smoothly, I might just never use the system update again......except to see what updates are actually in the hopper.

Some of the Thinkvantage stuff is pretty buggy and inadequately tested.

The key is to decide, early on, which of these applications will offer you any benefit, and which ones don't. Spend a little time reading Lenovo's descriptions of the various applications and make a list of those you want to keep and those that are not going to be useful to you. For a non-corporate user, for example, applications like CSS, Migration Manager, and many others are of little use. Uninstall those, one by one.

Once you have the list of Thinkvantage applications down to those that might actually benefit you, upgrade them carefully and with forethought. Make sure that you image your system with a backup program like Norton Ghost 2003 or Acronis True Image before doing any upgrades on these applications. It is probably best not to even consider doing upgrades more often than every 2 or 3 months and doing one of those imaging backups immediately beforehand, for insurance against a Lenovo software screwup.

Worst comes to worst, you can restore your system from the image backup. If you are lucky (and most times you will be) it will be an insurance policy you won't have to use. Once you are satisfied with the updated system, run a registry cleaner like ccleaner, do a good defrag, then re-image your system and you will have a good to go system build that will be available should other disasters strike.

There are a couple of programs that deserve specific mention. If you decide to use Access Connections, don't let System Update do the upgrade. Instead, go to the lenovo website, input your machine type, then download the latest versions of Access Connections and the driver package for your specific wireless card. Uninstall both the wireless card drivers and the version of Access Connections you have been using, then reinstall the wireless card drivers FIRST, followed afterwards by the Access Connections version you just downloaded. This is the best way to handle access connections upgrades, either that or just live with what you have if it works for you. Problems present themselves especially when you let System Update update either the wireless card driver or the Access Connections version by themselves, which can create a mismatch rendering both applications non-functional.

Ken,

I appreciate your response - very helpful information. A few questions, however:

1. Is there reason why you recommend Norton Ghost 2003 or Acronis True Image over the the ThinkVantage Rescue and Recovery program? Rescue and Recovery was actually one of the few ThinkVantage programs that worked for me - after the latest debacle with System Update, I ran R&R and restored my computer to settings from over a year ago, prior to my first System Update run.

2. What are the programs you'd consider most essential for a non-corporate user such as myself? I occassionally bring my computer for use on business trips, but the vast majority of the time it is only used for personal purposes.

3. Any other programs that deserve specific mention? In addition to my wireless/access connection drivers, I'm also thinking of updating my Power Manager, my Rescue & Recovery and my video drivers. Is there anything I should be aware of before going through with the updates? Of course, I'll be backing everything up before updating per your recommendation.

Thanks again.

I would say yes, ThinkVantage Software is a disaster. After running into various issues I cleaned it up completely. The problem is you never know if any of them causes the issue or maybe Vista is the culprit.

erockoneskee wrote:Ken,

I appreciate your response - very helpful information. A few questions, however:

1. Is there reason why you recommend Norton Ghost 2003 or Acronis True Image over the the ThinkVantage Rescue and Recovery program? Rescue and Recovery was actually one of the few ThinkVantage programs that worked for me - after the latest debacle with System Update, I ran R&R and restored my computer to settings from over a year ago, prior to my first System Update run.

2. What are the programs you'd consider most essential for a non-corporate user such as myself? I occassionally bring my computer for use on business trips, but the vast majority of the time it is only used for personal purposes.

3. Any other programs that deserve specific mention? In addition to my wireless/access connection drivers, I'm also thinking of updating my Power Manager, my Rescue & Recovery and my video drivers. Is there anything I should be aware of before going through with the updates? Of course, I'll be backing everything up before updating per your recommendation.

Thanks again.

If you have a question, then leave the software on there. I would definitely remove "Client Security System" and anything that works in the background doing things you can do for yourself manually. There is a program (whose name I have forgotten) that is supposed to do maintenance tasks in the background and I would get rid of that one, for sure. The last thing you want is a problem with a program whose purpose you do not understand and which works when you are unaware of it. At the best, it will slow you down, and at the worst it cause a crash for reasons that are not obvious.

If you take a little bit of time and read the text files describing these Lenovo applications, on the Lenovo website, you can decide for yourself which might be useful for you. Click on the support tab on a Lenovo webpage then input your machine type into the box and all the various downloads should be found and you can read through them to find out which make sense for you personally and which do not.

R&R is not a program I would rely on to restore my system; it is simply not a robust and dependable program like the imaging programs I mentioned. You can pick up Acronis or (the nearly identical) Apricorn EZ Gig II bundled "free" with many products such as hard disk enclosures and IDE/SATA/USB drive adapters, such as:

http://shop3.outpost.com/product/537015 ... IN_RSLT_PG

which is often available with rebates from various online sellers with a total price of less than $20 after the rebate (for the apparatus and the included software disk).

The only reason to use R&R is for backups on the disk drive itself that you could use in a desperate situation during a trip away from home. It has helped me out once or twice like that, but I would not want to trust it as an overall backup solution.

[quote="erockoneskee"]

1. Is there reason why you recommend Norton Ghost 2003 or Acronis True Image over the the ThinkVantage Rescue and Recovery program? Rescue and Recovery was actually one of the few ThinkVantage programs that worked for me - after the latest debacle with System Update, I ran R&R and restored my computer to settings from over a year ago, prior to my first System Update run.


erock,

Acronis is completely independent of any type of PC crash/failure. Insert Acronis boot disk and re-install from an external source.

With the Lenovo recovery/restore, you at least need to get into safe mode....which may not occur with many types of failure (especially system failures or corrupted system files).

Acronis has saved my a__ many many times.