Thinkpads Forum

Bill,

I don't know the specifications of 802.11n draft 2 protocol but according to your interpretation the maximum speed is 130 Mbps on 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. My other laptop, which does 270 Mbps on the 2.4 GHz, is creating unacceptable levels of interference for other users of the 2.4 GHz ISM band.

But why do you think that Intel is advertising 300 Mbps on the 3945AGN productbrief?
There is a extra comment: "... enabled by 2x3 Draft N implementations with 2 spatial streams".

And on the 5300AGN productbrief they advertise 450 Mbps. The extra comment here is: "... enabled by 3x3 Draft-N implementations with 3 spatial streams in combination with a 3 spatial streams accesspoint."

So, a spatial stream can reach a theoretical maximum of 150 Mbps. When I read this the first time, I thought there would be 2 spatial streams on the 2.4 GHz and 1 spatial stream on the 5 GHz (resulting in the total of 3 with 450 Mbps). But on this moment I get 270 Mbps on the 5 GHz. So it is probably one stream on the 2.4 GHz and two on 5 GHz?

And I am curious which commercial available routers does support the 3x3 spatial streams? I thought my Linksys WRT610N was suitable because of the "Simultaneous Dual-N" comment but now I am not sure anymore. I can't find any 450 Mbps in the specs...

Edit: I went back to work today to fetch the 5300AG.
After I swapped the card, I took a look in the properties of the card in the Device Manager. I discovered that the 802.11n Channel Width was set to the default, 20 MHz. So I set it to auto and now I get 270 Mbps on the 2.4 MHz too.

At work I also had a Sitecom WL-306 available for test so I took it home. On this router (2.4 GHz only) I connected at 300 Mbps, with or without WPA2-AES. So, this raise the question, why don't I get 300 Mbps on the WRT610N...

robertwebbe wrote:I don't know the specifications of 802.11n draft 2 protocol

Perhaps you should look them up then, and cease your anti-social behaviour on the 2.4 Ghz band!

Please understand that I do not want to be anti-social at all...
I have tried to understand the information on the ieee site but it was too much and too technical for me to understand.

I think the manufactures like Intel and Linksys should protect me for being it by making it impossible in the software. Now they advertise 300 Mbps and even 450 Mbps speeds on their products and when I am trying to reach this, you accusing me for anti-social behaviour?

Some explanation of how is the speed in 802.11n achieved:
here.

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and looking for some help with the 1804 error on a x61s 8748-23U, The machine is / was a US laptop with a Verizon EVDO wwan card MC5725 FRU 42T0929, I've purchased a MC8755 FRU 42T0835 from ebay but once i installed the card i get the error 1804 and the machine won't boot with out removal. My Bios Versions are very very old for this machine Bios 1.03 (7NET22WW) ECP 1.02 (7MHT24WW). But i've just done some digging and it doesnt look good for getting it to work. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=62260

Is it possible to make this work or do i have to sell this on and get the MC8775.

Many Thanks
Mark

hi, Zender and friends, how are you doing? i am just join this group. is there anyone can help me with this BIOS whitelist thing?? i recently purchase the R61 CPU T9300, and i will like to add aftermarket Intel Turbo memory chip and Intel 5100 wireless card, will you please teach me or tell me how to do it??

Hi Zender,

I have sent you a PM regarding my T60p and MC5725 EVDO Rev A card. I hope you can help! Many thanks.

Charlie

Hello,

I have a Lenovo T61p. A friend of mind just drop in my lap an Intel 533MMW mini pci card. I have been reading that you just can't install the card and have it work. While reading I found Zender's name to be the one to contact, so i have done just that.
My question is has anyone noticed a performance (speed) increase after installing the 533 mini pci? I have the linksys 610n and currently get about 130.

TIA.


WOW. Talk about fast.
Just flashed the bios and with a quick driver and IntelPro update, I am back up and running. I did get the message that someone mention earlier, but just selected yes and continued. The card works with my job's wireless. Just can't wait til I get home to try the 610n connection speed.

thanks Zender, You Are DA Man.

Hi to all
i have thinkpad x200 and today get from the ebay wwan card sierra mc8781 after installing this card on thinkpad i get error 1804
two days ago i write to Zender and hi dont ansver to my ,
may bee some body have modded bios for thinkpad x200
thanks in advance for your help

Unfortunately, I've checked BIOS of X200 and it has new structure, which no tool I have can split. It feels doable, and I will eventually try, but it's probably going to take some serious time, and I have little.
Even then though, the new structure might mean move towards more protected BIOS, so the changes might actually not get accepted. Who knows.

For the time being, no patch for new machines from me (newer than *61 series).

All others waiting for patched BIOS (R61, Z61) - sorry for the delay, I'll get to it during next week at the latest.

Zender wrote: All others waiting for patched BIOS (R61, Z61) - sorry for the delay, I'll get to it during next week at the latest.

That's great news! Hope you read my PM..

Thanks in advance Zender, you're the man!

Robert, from what I can gather all the talk about 802.11n super bandwidth relies on MIMO, which in turn requires multiple radios.

I can't get anyone to translate what a "spatial stream" is, but I would expect that means "the emissions from one radio" which in turn means you need adapters that have multiple radios (not just multiple antennas) or adapters that can be chained together to push the multiple MIMO streams.

This is all classic "let's use a parallel bus because serial isn't fast enough" and it should be perfect for TCP/IP steasms, since it doesn't matter how IP packets get into your computer--as long as your CPU has been told "they all belong together, put them in sequential order". Which is what it normally does for any one stream from any one NIC. (Server class NICs do this without using the CPU, conventional NICs use the CPU to do the sequencing.)

Lotta gobbledegook, not much plain talk. That tells you something right up front, doesn't it?

hellosailor wrote: I can't get anyone to translate what a "spatial stream" is

Do a Google search on Spatial Division Multiplexing.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Bill, what I got from that at:
http://www.wave-report.com/tutorials/OFDM.htm

Is essentially MIMO can use multiple antennas to make it easier to eliminate data loss from multipath problems. But I have also read other MIMO docs calling specifically for multiple radios--not just multiple antennas. And still more docs referring to proprietary implemenations of MIMO that won't be in any final form of 802.11n.

I'm still left confused by this, I think different vendors are talking about different parts of the elephant. AFAIK, from the radio theory I know, one adio can only put out one signal at a time. You can encode data on that signal all kinds of different ways--but once the bandwidth is saturated, and once the modulation scheme is fixed (i.e. ODFM), the only way you get the data acrosss "faster" is by using more radios to physically take more bandwidth.

Maybe you can get someone at the IEEE to write a "MIMO For Dummies and Skeptics" paper. Someone who also has an YnGlitch Degree and some non-technical skills? <G>

You need more transmitters and receivers, because the higher speed is achieved by more streams. One stream can get theoretical link speed of 150Mbps.
4965AGN has, as far as I know, two transmitters and two receivers. 5300 has three transmitters, three receivers. 5100 has one transmitter and two receivers, allowing it to receive at 300Mbps and transmit only at 150Mbps.

Spatial stream is a name for a way to get more (more-or-less) independent streams to the same frequence bandwidth.

Hi, any chance this would work on a T400 with a Intel 5300 card?

Cheers,
Johan

Zender wrote:(...) 5300 has three transmitters, three receivers. (...)

Is the Atheros AR5008X that I have at the moment comparable to the Intel 5300 WiFi Link?? It does have 3 antennas, and it works great. However, I already ordered the Intel 5300, and I definitely want to try it out. As you're the authority on anything BIOS, what would I need to do to the BIOS in order to have my system accept it??

Thanks!

Crunch wrote:Is the Atheros AR5008X that I have at the moment comparable to the Intel 5300 WiFi Link??

No.

Crunch wrote:what would I need to do to the BIOS in order to have my system accept it??

Zender's modified T60 Bios will get you past the white list device error message, however, you will then need to figure out for yourself if there are other compatibility issues with a T60.

Cheers,

Bill B.

gladders wrote:Hi,

I'm new to the forum and looking for some help with the 1804 error on a x61s 8748-23U, The machine is / was a US laptop with a Verizon EVDO wwan card MC5725 FRU 42T0929, I've purchased a MC8755 FRU 42T0835 from ebay but once i installed the card i get the error 1804 and the machine won't boot with out removal. My Bios Versions are very very old for this machine Bios 1.03 (7NET22WW) ECP 1.02 (7MHT24WW). But i've just done some digging and it doesnt look good for getting it to work. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=62260

Is it possible to make this work or do i have to sell this on and get the MC8775.

Many Thanks
Mark

Cheers Zender got my 3g online... TOP MAN

Hey Zender I see you helped out some people again, keep up the good work! Any idea when you can help me with my request? My girl is asking my ears off

thanks!

bill bolton wrote:Zender's modified T60 Bios will get you past the white list device error message, however, you will then need to figure out for yourself if there are other compatibility issues with a T60.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Thanks Bill...Would you, or anyone else, happen to know just how the Intel 5300 WiFi Link outperforms the Atheros AR5008X card?? IF it does at all, that is.

I haven't ordered it just yet, so maybe I won't get it then...

Thanks...

So finally, new BIOSes done (R60, two variants of R61). Z61 will take a few days more, the key module is split in two and I need to learn more about the splitting so that we keep the no-machine-wrecked record

I've also looked at Lenovo 3000 N200 machine BIOS, and could get the module from it and patch it, but then I've learned it has the same new structure as last ThinkPads, and prepare.exe does not know the correct compression. This probably makes us nearer patch for these, as I know where to head now

As for questions... I would guess Atheroses from *60/61 time were 300/300Mbps. However, buying 5300 now is probably not worth it now, as it seems that 450Mbps access points/routers are yet to come.

5300 will be accepted after loading patched BIOS, but there seemed to be trouble with drivers (bluescreening...)

Edit: removed wrong notation;

Zender wrote:So finally, new BIOSes done (R60, two variants of R61). Z61 will take a few days more, the key module is split in two and I need to learn more about the splitting so that we keep the no-machine-wrecked record

I've also looked at Lenovo 3000 N200 machine BIOS, and could get the module from it and patch it, but then I've learned it has the same new structure as last ThinkPads, and prepare.exe does not know the correct compression. This probably makes us nearer patch for these, as I know where to head now

As for questions... I would guess Atheroses from *60/61 time were 2x2, 300/300Mbps. However, buying 5300 now is probably not worth it now, as it seems that 450Mbps access points/routers are yet to come.

5300 will be accepted after loading patched BIOS, but there seemed to be trouble with drivers (bluescreening...)

Looking forward to the Lenovo 3000 V200 patched bios, which according to you also should be fairly similar to the latest bunch of Lenovos.

Crunch wrote:Thanks Bill...Would you, or anyone else, happen to know just how the Intel 5300 WiFi Link outperforms the Atheros AR5008X card?? IF it does at all, that is.

I haven't ordered it just yet, so maybe I won't get it then...

Thanks...

Love to know this too...

Tried the new V200 bios and it works like a charm, thank you

I see that Lenovo has released a new T60 BIOS 79ETE3WW (2.23)

(Fix) The computer may hang if Rescue and Recovery is installed on Windows Vista 64-bit SP1.
(Fix) PXE time-out is too long was fixed by IBA IBA v1.3.24.


Any chance you will patch this BIOS as well?

Thanks
David

Does anything in particular interest you, in the ChangeLog since 2.21?

Yes the possible fix for hangs in Vista 64 bit with R&R As I run and happen to like R&R. It seems to me that anytime they say they have fixed a hang it is worth while taking a look at.

Zender, I'm sure you get buried with PM's for bios.. but I'll ask anyway. Any update on z61 bios?

Is there a chance to run the 43R9153 (Vodafone/Ericsson F3507g) HSDPA card on the X300 and the T61P (14" 4:3)?

Also do i have to buy an antenna for the X300? It already has an SIM slot under the battery, but i haven't opened it yet.

Regards