Thinkpads Forum

If you have a Seagate drive you can use the free but feature limited OEM Seagate version of Acronis True Image located here: http://tinyurl.com/27y63t
It will install on any system but it will run only if it detects a Seagate drive.

mgo wrote: I believe I follow along with what you are saying about the cloning process. It seems I noticed the same final act Acronis carried out when I experimented with cloning last night.

While this cloning procedure (as opposed to creating a .tib archive) has been interesting to do, it really does not suit my needs, as well as it might other users. But I learned some things, anyway.

On the hard drive password thoughts, all my drives have passwords. It's my understanding that those passwords which are created within the bios are right on the drive's firmware, and not on the mobo security chip. So, the password will be carried with the drive whether in the ultra bay or the main slot.

I don't care for the Client Security thingy, so using the power on password and hard drive password gives me the security I need for my financial things and other data.

Do any of the concerns discussed in last few postings about HD passwords and cloning apply if one does not use HD passwords and has the ThinkPad Security Chip disabled? I only use a "System On" PW within the computor's BIOS upon a cold startup as I'm not concerned about security (based on my type of use for the laptop).

Mgo:

I agree with you about CSS and I don't use it or see much utility in it either.

I was just talking about the regular hardrive password that you can set in the bios. Although the password is on the drive and works from the ultrabay, my experience has been that I have to boot with (not from) the password protected drive is connected to the system so that the password stored on the hard drive can be entered before the system boots up. If I just try to hot swap a password protected hard drive into the ultrabay into an already booted system, I get no option to enter the hard drive password and the drive consequently is inaccessible. At least that has been my experience with password protected hard drives.

eecon wrote:
Do any of the concerns discussed in last few postings about HD passwords and cloning apply if one does not use HD passwords and has the ThinkPad Security Chip disabled? I only use a "System On" PW within the computor's BIOS upon a cold startup as I'm not concerned about security (based on my type of use for the laptop).

No.

pae77 wrote:

eecon wrote:
Do any of the concerns discussed in last few postings about HD passwords and cloning apply if one does not use HD passwords and has the ThinkPad Security Chip disabled? I only use a "System On" PW within the computor's BIOS upon a cold startup as I'm not concerned about security (based on my type of use for the laptop).

No.

Thanks .... A few more scenario questions (for anyone):

1. Assume that I clone a T61 HD with the HD password first disabled (for backup purposes and put the newly cloned HD away in a safe location). I then re-enable the HD password via the ThinkPad BIOS. Then once a month, I again disable the working HD's password just before the next cloning backup operation. Both source and target HDs are the same make and size and there is no Acronis Secure Zone on the ThinkPad HDs (I prefer to keep the Lenovo factory service partitions even though I have disabled the Security Chip and uninstalled CSS and RR).

Do any of the concerns discussed in last few postings about HD passwords and cloning apply for Scenario 1 above?

2. Assume that the HD being used in the ThinkPad fails. I then swap in my latest cloned HD (cloned without a HD password as described in Scenario 1 above) and restart (maybe one reboot required after WinXP detects a different HD). I then apply any incremental or differential backups from an external 3.5" USB 2.0 HD where the Acronis .tib files are stored and re-enable the HD password at the next reboot into BIOS.

Do any of the concerns discussed in last few postings about HD passwords and cloning apply for this Scenario 2 above?

3. If I never hot swap ThinkPad HD's (I don't use an ultrabay HD adapter and never intend to have two HDs simultanously within my thinkPad), do I really need to first disable the HD password that is set via the ThinkPad BIOS menu before preforming cloning operations as described above and below?
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Here is my proposed monthly T61 backup procedure and any thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated. I'm going to use two identical Seagate 7200.1 100GB 7200 RPM ST910021AS drives. One is my original Lenovo Branded unit and the other is an OEM Seagate:

1. First disable my ThinkPad HD password in the BIOS (I never use the Security Chip and and it is always disabled and CSS and RR are not installed);

2. Make a Full ThinkPad HD backup image using the Acronis 11 backup and verify option (from an Acronis boot disk rather than from within WinXP) onto one of my several external USB 3.5" HDs right before I do the cloning operation. These externals are logical drives only (with no primary partitions) and they also store my important databases;

3. Reboot into WinXP and connect the laptop 2.5" target HD to be cloned while WinXP is still operating (it's in an external USB 2.5"enclosure) and make sure it is seen in WinXP and operating properly;

4. Immediately reboot with an Acronis boot disk and perform the cloning operation using Acronis cloning auto mode (because the source and target drives are the same size). The cloning process will overwrite the previous month's backup on the target drive. I prefer to clone outside of WinXP by using the Acronis boot disk (although I understand I could still do it from within WinXP but unfortunately I'm way too old and set in my ways);

5. Shutdown after the cloning is complete and remove the target backup drive and store it safely away (while still in its USB enclosure). Or, maybe even swap it into the main bay if I'm really ambitious, and just use it as my ThinkPad HD until next month's backup cloning operation (swapping back and forth each month because I'm not sure Acronis offers a data verification option for the cloning option);

6. Restart the ThinkPad going directly into BIOS and re-enable the HD password and then reboot.

7. Perform Incremental/Differential backups in-between the monthly cloning of the two ThinkPad HDs and save them as .tib Acronis files on one of the other external USB 3.5" HD. I plan to do these backups from within WinXP.

As I stated earlier, I do not use an Acronis Secure Zone on my ThinkPad HD in order to preserve the factory service partitions .... Just my own personal preference.

eecon wrote:

pae77 wrote:

Honestly, your scheme sounds much more involved than my semi-reptilian brain can sort out! (chuckle)

But one question that pops up is...since you are not too concerned with security (I believe reading that in one of your earlier posts) why even bother with passwords, especially for the hard drives?

Also, I have found that hard drives with the HDD password will work ok, provided they are put into ultra bay under cold stop conditions. This forces the password request by the bios at startup.

mgo wrote:

eecon wrote:

After looking again at backup plan, I see that I'm being way too anal about my data integrity

One can never be too safe or careful when dealing with backups. My procedure usually involves a backup drive of larger size than the original since I can very clearly see the differences in Ghost when selecting the "source" and "destination" drives. I know that for at least the Ghost program I use, it will swap the designation of drives 1 and 2. If you have just previously booted the system from the drive in the Ultrabay HD adapter, it becomes "1" and the HD in the normal bay inside the laptop is then called "2". I almost wiped out my current drive by overwriting it with the older backup image. I was saved because I saw drive 1 declared as 80GB and 2 as 60GB, the exact opposite of my normal backup procedure.

Note: This is using a Ghost 2003 DOS boot floppy and T23s and 600Xs. Don't know if this drive confusion will occur with any other backup/clone program.

rkawakami wrote:One can never be too safe or careful when dealing with backups. My procedure usually involves a backup drive of larger size than the original since I can very clearly see the differences in Ghost when selecting the "source" and "destination" drives. I know that for at least the Ghost program I use, it will swap the designation of drives 1 and 2. If you have just previously booted the system from the drive in the Ultrabay HD adapter, it becomes "1" and the HD in the normal bay inside the laptop is then called "2". I almost wiped out my current drive by overwriting it with the older backup image. I was saved because I saw drive 1 declared as 80GB and 2 as 60GB, the exact opposite of my normal backup procedure.

Note: This is using a Ghost 2003 DOS boot floppy and T23s and 600Xs. Don't know if this drive confusion will occur with any other backup/clone program.

Thanks for the tip about potential Drive ID confusion if they are the same size. Definately something for me to consider!

This would require me to rename the C: Drive volume name after a cloning to something else after each cloning operation. Acronis 11 also displays the volume names which may help ID the drives.

I just don't find this to be a problem with Acronis. It is always very clear to me which drive is which even when they are the same size.

The few times I tried to use Ghost (albeit many years ago), I found it extremely confusing and difficult and did in fact once clone the wrong drive which really screwed me up big time. That was the last time I used Ghost.

pae77 wrote:I just don't find this to be a problem with Acronis. It is always very clear to me which drive is which even when they are the same size.

The few times I tried to use Ghost (albeit many years ago), I found it extremely confusing and difficult and did in fact once clone the wrong drive which really screwed me up big time. That was the last time I used Ghost.

Agreed ..... and thanks to your post about your experience with 200GB Hitachi 7k200 in another thread, I'm getting a 200GB drive anyway (and maybe two!)