Thinkpads Forum

Hi folks, I have a quick question.

I want to use my T61 w/ NVIDIA 140M with an external monitor (22 inch, 1680x1050, yet to buy).

Would it be worth buying a new dock/port replicator with DVI output intsead of using the VGA right on the laptop? That is how much a difference is there between these two options. Would the quality at 1680x1050 be horrible with VGA? For none widescreen 1280x1024, it was okay for me last time I tried.

Any thought? Thanks.

Welcome to the forum!

For higher resolutions DVI is the way to go. VGA will work, but the results with DVI will be visible the first time you use it.

A docking station is always advantageous if you can afford it, esp if you plan to upgrade to bigger or multiple monitors later on.

gator wrote:A docking station is always advantageous if you can afford it, esp if you plan to upgrade to bigger or multiple monitors later on.

I'm planning on getting a dock as well for the DVI output mainly. What do you think? Port replicator or full dock? If you have the FRU, that'd be awesome. Awesome, awesome I tell ya...

Crunch wrote:

gator wrote:A docking station is always advantageous if you can afford it, esp if you plan to upgrade to bigger or multiple monitors later on.

I'm planning on getting a dock as well for the DVI output mainly. What do you think? Port replicator or full dock? If you have the FRU, that'd be awesome. Awesome, awesome I tell ya...

I don't believe that the port replicator provides DVI. You'll want at least the Advanced Mini Dock, Mfg part #: 250410U. I bought one so that I could drive my 24" LCD via DVI, and the difference between VGA and DVI is absolutely stunning with my T60.

gator wrote:the results with DVI will be visible the first time you use it.

That's not always the case. It depends on the monitor and cable. I think the OP should try VGA first, and get a DVI dock only if s/he isn't happy with the image quality.

I've compared VGA versus DVI for several Dell LCD monitors ranging from 1280x1024 to 1920x1200 and didn't notice any difference. I've a Samsung SyncMaster 204B (20" 1600x1200) that I suspect might look better with DVI, but I haven't had a chance to test that.

I have tried my T60p with an external Samsung 17" LCD (pivoting) with VGA and DVI (via the advanced mini dock). I honestly will be hard pressed to tell the difference between the VGA and DVI output.

Mind you, I am glad I got the advanced mini dock, it makes leaving the house with the laptop much simpler!

I feel that for resolution equal to and greater than WSXGA+ (1680*1050) DVI is better ... Getting a good VGA output at high resolutions depends on how good your graphics card is - for example my T23 does not give good VGA output at anything higher than 1280*1024 on external - there is some fuzziness and small artifcats at this resolution which is not too bad, but I cannot work on anything above this using VGA. Today's laptops obviously have powerful GPUs than the T23 and maybe you can get by using just the VGA upto WUXGA as PianoWizard says if you have a good cable and a good monitor.

Maybe you can try out using VGA before investing in a mini dock ... but I still suggest getting a dock if you travel daily with your laptop (and if you can afford it), it makes life a lot easier. DVI is an added bonus.

The port replicator does provide DVI.

I find the full dock noisy.

awolfe63 wrote:The port replicator does provide DVI.

I find the full dock noisy.

Not according to the description on Lenovo's web site.

Also, this brochure lists all of the features of each docking option. DVI-D is mentioned for the Advanced Mini Dock, but not the Essential Port Replicator.

Dodge is right, there is no DVI on port replicator. You need the advanced mini dock.

I think I'll first try with VGA before getting a dock. But I sense that I'll get one eventually because of the "making life easier" part.

Thank you all. Your thoughts really helped.

pianowizard wrote:

gator wrote:the results with DVI will be visible the first time you use it.

That's not always the case. It depends on the monitor and cable. I think the OP should try VGA first, and get a DVI dock only if s/he isn't happy with the image quality.

I've compared VGA versus DVI for several Dell LCD monitors ranging from 1280x1024 to 1920x1200 and didn't notice any difference. I've a Samsung SyncMaster 204B (20" 1600x1200) that I suspect might look better with DVI, but I haven't had a chance to test that.

My Dell 2407WFP-HC looked awful connected to my T60/X1400 at 1920x1200, and I tried a number of VGA cables. DVI through the Advanced Mini Dock was a dramatic improvement.

Dodge DeBoulet wrote:My Dell 2407WFP-HC looked awful connected to my T60/X1400 at 1920x1200

I am sorro to hear that! I guess I am just lucky.

I have a 1600x1200 monitor and a 1680x1050 monitor (same make) attached to the same computer. The first is dvi and the second is vga. When you see them together, you realize dvi is far superior for text.

exTPfan wrote:When you see them together, you realize dvi is far superior for text.

I too have a desktop computer hooked up to a 24" Dell 2407WFP via VGA and to a 20" Dell 2007WFP via DVI, and these monitors are used side by side (see this photo of my setup). I have looked very carefully and there's aboslutely no difference in quality.

Let me say what I have said several times on this forum more clearly: I do believe that for certain monitors/cables/computers/video cards, DVI is better than VGA. I just don't think we should generalize and say that DVI is always better, because there're quite a few known cases where VGA is just as good.

BTW, it's possible that your 1600x1200 monitor has an IPS screen whereas your 1680x1050 monitor doesn't. If that's the case, the IPS monitor would look nicer regardless of whether it's hooked up with DVI or VGA.

You should also think about the noise.

AFAIK:
1.) The docking station (mini and advanced) has a fan which makes noise.
2.) If the TP is connected to a docking station or using DVI the GPU is always running von full power -> more heat -> fan of TP running more often.

=> Please note: This is what I've read in these and other forums. I don't have a dock/replicator.

If someone has more details information so please le us know.

If you have a bad dvi cable, dvi may be as bad as vga. Otherwise dvi will always be much better.

IJALB wrote:You should also think about the noise.

AFAIK:
1.) The docking station (mini and advanced) has a fan which makes noise.
2.) If the TP is connected to a docking station or using DVI the GPU is always running von full power -> more heat -> fan of TP running more often.

=> Please note: This is what I've read in these and other forums. I don't have a dock/replicator.

If someone has more details information so please le us know.

I don't think the mini-dock has a fan.
GPU settings are based on power source - not docking.

gator wrote:Dodge is right, there is no DVI on port replicator. You need the advanced mini dock.

My mistake. No DVI on the T60 port replicator, just the T4x.

I can confirm that there is no fan on a advanced mini dock. Only the advanced dock has a fan (for dissipating heat on the half height PCI-e card that it can accomodate).

About the cable, LG L226WTQ in Europe comes with a DVI cable in the box. I hope it'll be of good quality. The reason choosing a 22 inch panel is that it's currently cheap.

I noticed that L226WTQ uses LG.Phillips panel in the states while in Europe we might have to play the panel lottery like Samsung 226BW.

I do care a lot about the quality of text displayed on the screen, I hope that justifies the investment in the advanced mini dock.

Dell has really good LCDs but they can cost a lot more than makes in German market.

Thank you all again for the help.

awolfe63 wrote:GPU settings are based on power source - not docking.

I guess not on the T61 with NVIDIA 140M running on Vista: There is no setting for the GPU in Vista.

I'm using a T60 14" ATI X1400 with LG L245WP 24" display. For about a month I had it without a dock, using a VGA cable provided with the display (seemed quality) and it wasn't actually bad. Now I have the dock and noticed the following (set laptop to VGA+DVI, clone mode, and tried to switch the display from VGA to DVI and back a few times):
1) VGA is a bit more blurry, while DVI is exact and crisp. The difference is about as when you switch WinXP ClearType on and off.
2) VGA had some instability to the image, from time to time. The colours didn't stay the same, one could see patterns flowing over the display - but only from time to time and when looking very carefully. Didn't notice before doing the comparison. DVI is solid.
3) The colours with VGA weren't the same as with DVI. I'm doing no graphics and couldn't care less, haven't done any kind of calibration for neither VGA nor DVI, but still I believe the DVI colours are more accurate (though of course proper calibration would probably make the VGA as good). Not easy to see this, but I could set the display to show VGA and DVI inputs side-by-side.

All tests in 1920x1200, native resolution. Panel is Premium MVA. Advanced Mini Dock.

Zender wrote:I'm using a T60 14" ATI X1400 with LG L245WP 24" display. For about a month I had it without a dock, using a VGA cable provided with the display (seemed quality) and it wasn't actually bad. Now I have the dock and noticed the following (set laptop to VGA+DVI, clone mode, and tried to switch the display from VGA to DVI and back a few times):
1) VGA is a bit more blurry, while DVI is exact and crisp. The difference is about as when you switch WinXP ClearType on and off.
2) VGA had some instability to the image, from time to time. The colours didn't stay the same, one could see patterns flowing over the display - but only from time to time and when looking very carefully. Didn't notice before doing the comparison. DVI is solid.
3) The colours with VGA weren't the same as with DVI. I'm doing no graphics and couldn't care less, haven't done any kind of calibration for neither VGA nor DVI, but still I believe the DVI colours are more accurate (though of course proper calibration would probably make the VGA as good). Not easy to see this, but I could set the display to show VGA and DVI inputs side-by-side.

All tests in 1920x1200, native resolution. Panel is Premium MVA. Advanced Mini Dock.

Thank you Zender, that's very informative and what I wanted to know.

Be aware though, that you have a different graphics card, which might make (a bit of) difference and also it depends on the quality of VGA input of your display. But I've seen everyone in discussion forums complain about how bad the VGA input of my monitor is, so hopefully you can only get better