T61 is not as good as the T42

[dhfein]

I bought a T42 in the summer of 2003. It was a great computer, super thin, rugged, and reliable. Unfortunately, the gpu started going bad a few months ago, and it was integrated. Rather than spend $500 to replace the whole motherboard, I opted to buy a T61. I was concerned that the switchover from IBM to Lenovo would mean a drop in quality but the reviewers at Cnet assured me otherwise. Mostly they were correct, it is a good machine, but not without a few glaring problems:

1. It’s thicker, and noticeably so. I really liked the old svelte form factor. The 61 feel likes the 42’s chubby cousin.
2. I made the mistake of getting the WXGA+ (1440x900) model which is too high a resolution for a 14” screen. Everything is tiny! I hate having to lower the resolution from the native on an LCD because it makes everything blurry but I may have to do that. I tried increasing the font size with my web browser and OS, but the results are petty inconsistent. Frankly, I'm wondering why Lenovo even sells a screen like this.
3. The keyboard light is not as effective as on the 42. Still does the trick in a pinch, but I find myself straining to see a bit more.
4. Vista. I rolled the dice and went with the newer and fancier and I’m paying the price. I’ve already had to make tweaks to get it to play nice with older webpages, but it still browses very slowly. Plus if you have Vista with your own antivirus suite, and Lenovo’s thinkvantage software there is a ton of overlap. I have three different programs asking me whether I want to allow this or that. I’m trying to turn a lot of this stuff off but that’s easier said than done. Hopefully SP1 will make a difference, but I doubt Vista will really mature for a year or two more.
5. It’s not faster. A lot of that is probably due to Vista, but I went from a 1.4ghz Pentium M with 768mb of DDR and and integrated gpu to a 2.2ghz Core 2 Duo, 2gb DD2, and a discrete video card with 128mb of ram, plus intel’s new turbo cache thing and it feels slower if anything.
6. There’s a strange high pitched noise that sometimes happens in sync with movements of the mouse. The computer will be quiet and then I’ll move the mouse and it will sound like the hard drive is whirring really fast. I don’t know if this is unique to my machine and for whatever reason it seems to be happening less frequently.

[rbena]

Good to hear your report on the T42 vs the T61. Did you actually have the Intel integrated graphics fail? With $500 you could have picked up another T42, but no guarantees that way.

The T61 does seem to have a sturdier case to prevent failures from stress. Thought you may have gone with a similar 14" 4:3 screen on the T61. The option of running XP is still available to gain some speed.

It sounds like we haven't heard the last of the high pitch noise issues on this unit. These may likely be identified and resolved as more users report them.

You still could pick up a T42 if that is your preferred notebook - possibly with warranty remaining - or factor in a new Mobo at some stage. But not every unit experiences the GPU failure - I have two working T42's, and there are many more out there without this issue.

[pae77]

I have the opposite experience from you in almost every respect. But I got the same screen size and resolution T61p as I had on my T42p (which was a great machine). My new T61p is better in almost every way. The only two places it is slightly inferior is in crispness of text on the display and the keyboard, but both are still way better than most anything else available.

Vista requires a fair amount of tweaking to get it working the way you want. Plenty of info on that in these and other forums. I was horrified by it initially, but after some research and tweaking, it works just the way I want it to and I like it better than XP. Has some neat new features (like for e.g., being able to have the USB ports powered to charge things while the machine is asleep. Perhaps this is available in XP as well but I never saw it.) Vista will continue to get better with time. Everyone trashed XP when it first came out as well. One tweak you might want to do asap is to turn User Access Control (UAC) off. That will get you 50% of the way back to a more XP like experience right there. That will cut out a lot of the questions every time you try to do something.

The reason for the thickness was explained by a previous poster. The T61 machines are now encased 360* by a magnesium roll cage. Seems like a worthwhile trade off to me for a few extra millimeters of thickness.

You've got to invest a little research and experimentation to find the settings and combination of security apps that will work for you. I'm using NOD32 for AV, Win Defender and AVG Antispy for anti-spyware, and Comodo Firewall Pro (one of the only good firewalls currently available for V x64) for my firewall. Everything is working fine and not very intrusive, although the firewall takes a bit of training before it quiets down. Win Defender (comes with Vista) is set to do daily scans by default. You might want to change that schedule to something less frequent.

My Vista machine is considerably faster than my T42p running XP, and I don't have Vista SP1 yet, which is supposed to speed some things up more. Just try going back to the T42 after a while on the T61, I suspect you will be surprised.

It takes some time and effort to move into a new house and get everything arranged properly. Same can be said for moving to a new machine and operating system.

[CYoung234]

First off, T42's are very nice laptops. I have been buying them off eBay for our office for people who travel. They can be had very inexpensively, work great and last a long time. I like the T42 screen better than the 14.1" T61 widescreen only from the standpoint that it is brighter. The T61 screen works fine for me, and I prefer the widescreen format to the 1024 x 768 T42.

That being said, I have a T61 widescreen that I use as my personal laptop. It is quite similar to yours. There is no way that a T42 will be anywhere near as fast as a T61, particularly if you do anything processor intensive, like burn media, edit video, run CAD, etc. For word processing, web surfing, etc, the feel would be pretty close, since programs / activities like this do not really stress your laptop much.

You are right that the T42 is smaller and thinner. It is not lighter, though, and the T61 feels fine in my hand. The T61 is stiffer as well, so carrying one around 1-handed is actually easier.

[eyestrain]

I tried increasing the font size with my web browser and OS, but the results are petty inconsistent.

If you use Firefox, try No Squint extension. I wrote a post about it and other visual settings in this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=56083

[TTY]

4. Vista. ...but it still browses very slowly.

Try the Firefox browser. It's much faster than IE7.

[SHoTTa35]

not starting up any wars but some people will say FFx used to be faster, now with IE7 things are on even ground. IE beating out FFx in the areas of memory leaks and all that

I did find the T6x series thicker also but not glaringly so. It's only a lil bit bigger (.2" to be exact) and i like the stronger feel of the T6x compared to my T42. Flexing like crazy!

Well even if you had a T42 XGA the T61 WXGA+ is only about 130 pixels bigger which should mean the text isn't that small. I can't use XGA anymore tho because you just have to scroll too much especially in forums. On a XGA screen your post wouldn't even fit on the screen - i'd have to scroll down just to read the rest of what you wrote. Some people just like the larger text tho cuz of their eyes so each man for themselves

I thought the light on the T6x series was much brighter than the T42. Scratch that, the LCD i have is so bright that i don't even need the think light. I find myself turning it down most of the time during the night!!

A 2.2Ghz CPU wont make IE open faster or page load quicker. Most of the stuff is limited by the HDD speed and if you got a 5400RPM one that's probably the reason. I stay with a 5400 because i rather the less heat and the battery life but the 7200s definitely will make things fly.

As for people saying Vista needs X to get it working right, well i guess that depends on what you do. No OS is perfectly configure for everyone so yes it might need tweaking for what you do but not for everyday simple things like checking email and the like. I am more than the "average user" and i haven't done any tweaks to the OS yet it flys on my machine. Even other guys from here has said they don't know how come but it (Vista) just seemed better on my T42 than it did on their T61. Now with my T60 it's even better.

[Paul Unger]

Love T42? Yep. Replaced w/ T61? Yep. Leery 'bout Lenovo? Yep. As for the rest:

1. Thicker: yep. Life goes on . . . thickly ('member that Cadbury ad: "walk softly and carry a big thick"? I'm trying, but see 6. below).
2. WXGA+: I kind of like it, but then I had SXGA+ on one of my T42s and I spent most of my time with that one (my wife and kids got the XGA model).
3. Keyboard light: sucks. (Wayne's World)
4. Vista: steered far clear of that one! XP does it for me (except when I dabble in Ubuntu . . . but that's just for play--not work [yet!]).
5. Faster: oh yeah. But then I've got 3gb of ram and a 7200 rpm hd. I never bought into that old line that 'speed kills' . . .
6. High pitched noise: mine seems to be of a different nature from yours, but I've got one too! Maybe it's a harmonic imbalance in the magnesium roll cage!

I'm not sorry that I bought a T61--Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc. just aren't viable options in my experience--but it is different from the T42. Life goes on . . .

[exTPfan]

I tried a T60 for a couple of months before being driven nuts by the whine and Vista's quirks. I went back to using my T42. The T42 has a better keyboard, is quieter, smaller and (for my purposes) essentially as fast. I bought a second T42 for $450 as a backup.

[Paul Unger]

Can't argue with that. Hope they last you many hours of happy computing.

[ThinkPad]

I tried a T60 for a couple of months before being driven nuts by the whine and Vista's quirks. I went back to using my T42. The T42 has a better keyboard, is quieter, smaller and (for my purposes) essentially as fast. I bought a second T42 for $450 as a backup.

+1

I had a T60 and sold it, went back to the T42

[Isaac000]

...
2. I made the mistake of getting the WXGA+ (1440x900) model which is too high a resolution for a 14” screen. Everything is tiny! I hate having to lower the resolution from the native on an LCD because it makes everything blurry but I may have to do that. I tried increasing the font size with my web browser and OS, but the results are petty inconsistent. Frankly, I'm wondering why Lenovo even sells a screen like this....

So that people have a choice! Just because you don't like it doesn't mean someone else doesn't. I'd be very happy with a screen with that kind of pixel density. If you don't like it, don't buy that screen, but it should be a good thing that Lenovo makes that option available.

Frankly, I'm wondering why Lenovo even sells a screen at lower than 1440x900...it's simply not enough space to do easily any real work at lower DPI than that...

[eecon]

I bought a T42 in the summer of 2003. It was a great computer, super thin, rugged, and reliable. Unfortunately, the gpu started going bad a few months ago, and it was integrated. Rather than spend $500 to replace the whole motherboard, I opted to buy a T61.

<snipped>

5. It’s not faster. A lot of that is probably due to Vista, but I went from a 1.4ghz Pentium M with 768mb of DDR and and integrated gpu to a 2.2ghz Core 2 Duo, 2gb DD2, and a discrete video card with 128mb of ram, plus intel’s new turbo cache thing and it feels slower if anything.
6. There’s a strange high pitched noise that sometimes happens in sync with movements of the mouse. The computer will be quiet and then I’ll move the mouse and it will sound like the hard drive is whirring really fast. I don’t know if this is unique to my machine and for whatever reason it seems to be happening less frequently.

I still have my WinXP T42 right here next to me with my WinXP T61 (both configured as shown in my signature line below). Both the T42 and T61 seem equally quiet and of similar build quality with no noises as you described. However I don't use the keypad or screen very much on my T61 because it spends much of it's time in the Lenovo Advanced Mini-dock connected to an external KB, mouse and 22" WS monitor (that also has 1680x1050 resolution). This is perfect because when I do have to un-dock and use the T61 screen out in the field, all the screen windows remain the same size proportionally.

As for the speed, my T61 2.2 Duo Core really blows the doors off my T42 1.8 and my desktop P4-3.0 (like comparing my '65 Fuel Injected Sting Ray to my every day slow but steady '04 Mercury Mountaineer) .... except maybe for gaming where my Desktop might be faster. However, I've not had any time to do any gaming in the last couple of years due to high crude oil prices. Unfortunately, it's been work, work, work and more engineering work for me in the oil patch as of late .... and I'm trying to retire here at age 55 but they won't let me.

This morning I replaced the T61's original Seagate 7200.1 100GB 7200 RPM HD with a Hitachi 7k200 200GB 7200 RPM HD and it boots up a bit faster than before and definately faster than the T42 (about 70 processes running on both units configured equally under WinXP). The T61 takes 120 seconds to fully boot into WinXP from a cold start. The T42 takes 180 seconds.

My T42 is a 1400x1050 15" Flexview screen and the T61 is a 15.4" WS 1680x1050, and I like then equally .... although I do use reading glasses at my age for all my computing and reading needs. You might want to try a $10 pair of drugstore +1.00 correction reading glasses (even if you're not old like me) because everyone's eyes are different. I had to start using reading glasses in my mid-20's right after college, but can still see 20-20 for distance without eye glasses. Today, I'm up to a +2.25 correction for reading.

As a final note, I've not bothered to use my P4-3.0 desktop with an ATI X800XT video card and a pair of 10,000 RPM Raptor HD's (in a non-mirrored RAID striping array) ever since I got the T61 and docking station in September. I simply moved my video cable to the DVI connector on the back of the docking station and have never looked back. The desktop unit now is used as table top for my scanner (next to my desk).

[pianowizard]

It was...rugged, and reliable. Unfortunately, the gpu started going bad a few months ago

That means it's not rugged or reliable enough.

1. It’s thicker, and noticeably so. I really liked the old svelte form factor.

I haven't compared the widescreen 14.1" T61 with the 4:3 T42 side by side, but I owned a 4:3 T60 for a while and it's the same form factor and thickness as the T43.

2. I made the mistake of getting the WXGA+ (1440x900) model which is too high a resolution for a 14” screen....I'm wondering why Lenovo even sells a screen like this.

For me, 1440x900 is actually too low for a 14.1" screen. I would prefer 1680x1050. My R50p's 15.0" screen has 2048x1536!

[Dead1nside]

What's this about the ThinkLight being naff on the T61 compared to T4x? How bad are we talking and why?

I'd always trade a bit of thickness for a stronger overall chassis, I think that's a definite positive.

As a SXGA+ T41p user, I think that 1440x900 is the bare minimum, but I understand that some people prefer things to be clearer/bigger on their monitors.

I have to say that this 'Banias' 1.5Ghz Pentium M isn't half slow sometimes, there's a delay in keyboard entry sometimes in Firefox. A dual-core at relatively the same speed, Core2 would solve this.

Vista is probably alright to be honest and as someone else has said it'll just get better, and Windows XP will just become less and less supported. On a new machine I'd rather get Vista Business.

7200RPM HDDs should be standard. There's so much delay on 5400 RPM systems as disk drive access is a very important part of the overall system performance, that is where you'd be experiencing the slowdown.

[iThinkiAmBen]

I tried a T60 for a couple of months before being driven nuts by the whine and Vista's quirks. I went back to using my T42. The T42 has a better keyboard, is quieter, smaller and (for my purposes) essentially as fast. I bought a second T42 for $450 as a backup.

+1

I had a T60 and sold it, went back to the T42

What's so bad about the keyboard? I just got mine yesterday and I'm still evaluating.

[underclocker]

This is a tough one. The T4x series were just about perfect. Just about because their perfection caused a significant weakness, they flex when held with one hand, which causes motherboard failure.

Other than that, a properly handled T4x may be the best all-around machine made to date. I'm typing on a mint T40 now. It's five years old and perfect. I have the choice of many machines, but routinely grab a T40 for surfing. With a 1.6GHz Pentium M CPU, it's fairly fast and light. With a six cell battery and weighing 5 lbs. on the nose, it's perfectly balanced, side to side and front to back.

Regarding T61's, the 14" widescreen models are nice designs, albeit thicker. How could Lenovo continue to leave a weakness like flex in their design? I do like the T61's very much, but agree, after a T4x, they're a bit of a let down. Performance-wise, they are faster.

Regarding 15" models, I have to say that the T42 and T60 with SXGA+ LCD's are nearly indistinguishable. I've had both at the same time and ultimately sold the T42 because it was slower. The 15" standard ratio T60's are super.

I suppose we have to hope the future holds a stronger, thinner laptop model from Lenovo that will trump the design success of the T4x.

P.S. I don't think the Z61t gets enough design praise, it is very close to the T4x but in widescreen perfection. The only shortcoming I can find is the 4 cell battery. For longer life you need an extended 7 cell battery that adds and inch to the back and disturbs the fine weight balance.

[jamesqf]

For me, 1440x900 is actually too low for a 14.1" screen. I would prefer 1680x1050. My R50p's 15.0" screen has 2048x1536!

I have the 1680x1050. It's ok, but I'd really like 1900x1200

[Paul Unger]

What's this about the ThinkLight being naff on the T61 compared to T4x? How bad are we talking and why?

The T4x thinklight is projected through a circle and is centred in the lid; the T6x thinklight is projected through a 1mm slot and is off-centre. The T4x thinklight has excellent coverage and intensity; the T6x thinklight has adequate coverage and marginal intensity. You could work with the T4x thinklight; you can only avoid mistakes with the T6x thinklight. That's my take on the difference.

[SHoTTa35]

wait, the T60 i'm looking at here has the Thinklight dead center and it's definitely about a 4-6mm slot. I can see the actual LED in there bright as hell. I don't use the feature much but i definitely find it useful sometimes like now since it's about 1am and totally dark in my room.

[carbon_unit]

I have noticed that the T60 thinklight doesn't shine in my eyes the way my T42 light did. I like it better this way.

Besides if you are a proper touch typist the light is un-needed, why are you looking at the keyboard? Hehe, I can't touch type either but my daughter has keyboarding class right now and she says the teacher harps on this constantly.

[pianowizard]

For me, 1440x900 is actually too low for a 14.1" screen. I would prefer 1680x1050.

I have the 1680x1050. It's ok, but I'd really like 1900x1200

No, I was talking about having 1680x1050 on a 14.1" screen. You have that on a 15.4" screen. For 15.4", my lowest acceptable resolution is 1920x1200. I had a 15.4" Dell Inspiron 6000 with 1920x1200 and loved it, but I sold it after upgrading to my current R50p's.

Besides if you are a proper touch typist the light is un-needed, why are you looking at the keyboard?

I am a touch typist but every once in a while, I need to look at the keyboard to find keys that I rarely use, e.g. the "PrintScreen" key.

[Paul Unger]

wait, the T60 i'm looking at here has the Thinklight dead center and it's definitely about a 4-6mm slot.

Hmmm. It seems things changed from T60 to T61. Is yours widescreeen or standard?

[bill bolton]

Other than that, a properly handled T4x may be the best all-around machine made to date.

Or not.

In my experience with T60 and T61 ThinkPads, they generally have the T4x range beaten hands down, with a whole bunch of improvements, in terms of both operational usability and user maintainability, for 2008 needs!.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[sjthinkpader]

Some problems encounter with the T60:

1. Sometime it won't go to sleep when closing the lid.

2. When I press eject on the dock, it will say some application is using the printer even with nothing running.

[carbon_unit]

I am a touch typist but every once in a while, I need to look at the keyboard to find keys that I rarely use, e.g. the "PrintScreen" key.

PW, you did see the smiley up there, right?

[fafaforza]

Sounds like you should have gotten a 4:3 SXGA 1400x1050 screen, just like on the T42. I know how inconcistent increasing font sizes can be in any OS. But for browsing, try the Opera browser. It resizes the whole page, not just the text, so the layout remains the same. Even youtube videos get resized.

Also, I dunno if its something that can be fixed, but my firefox installs all had a big jump between a certain level of fonts. So the fonts would more than double in size at a certain level. Opera's jumps are consistent.

I still use FF for various sites, though. Each tool as its purpose.

[exTPfan]

According to IBM/Lenovo's numbers, the T42 is smaller and lighter than the T60/61.
There is something of a consensus on this forum that the keyboard and screens on the T42 are better than on the T60/T61.
The T42 is quieter than the T60/61. Or rather T42s are always quiet, while users find T60/61 anywhere from quiet to unusably noisy.
Thus, unless you really need a faster CPU or you need to be able to carry an open laptop by its front corner, the T42 wins hands down.

[pianowizard]

the T42 is smaller and lighter than the T60/61.

Barely. My current 14.1" T42 weighed 5.17 lb when it had an SXGA+ screen and two RAM sticks. The 14.1" SXGA+ T60 that I owned weighed 5.22 lb with two RAM modules.

[bill bolton]

There is something of a consensus on this forum that the keyboard and screens on the T42 are better than on the T60/T61.

A few users who post a lot may think that way, but it doesn't make it a consensus by any means. In fact opinions here vary quite widely about those topics.

Or rather T42s are always quiet

No.

Cheers,

Bill B.