Thinkpads Forum

Hello,

I want to buy a second hand Thinkpad T60 (it must have the next specs: 14 inch, 1400x1050, ATI X1400 and a decent processor).
I have come across an interesting advertisement, but this T60 has an Intel Core Duo 2GHz processor.
Is there a big difference between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo?
Is perhaps a Core Duo 2GHz slower than a Core 2 Duo 1.83GHz?

Thanks

The Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit processor, whereas the Core Duo is not.

Pocket Aces wrote:The Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit processor, whereas the Core Duo is not.

So if I bought a Core 2 Duo, I would better install a 64 bit operating system?
But what about the speed difference?

It the exact difference varies from application to application, but in general it's about 20% faster for the Core 2.

aaa wrote:It the exact difference varies from application to application, but in general it's about 20% faster for the Core 2.

In my opinion 20% is really a big difference.
However, I doubt if I would really feel the difference while editing documents, playing games... Besides, a Core Duo 2GHz is still a fast processor, isn't it?

A very good article can be found here:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... spx?i=2808

I have a T60 / T2500 which is a Core Duo 2.0 GHz. Is it possible to upgrade it to a Core 2 Duo?

Padhead wrote:I have a T60 / T2500 which is a Core Duo 2.0 GHz. Is it possible to upgrade it to a Core 2 Duo?

Most definitely YES - the power house CPU's are T7200, T7400 & T7600.

Any idea how much more power they use?

Do they turn up on the used market?

Padhead wrote:Any idea how much more power they use?

As an example the Core Duo T2700 2.33GHz has a thermal design power rating of 31W as opposed to the Core 2 Duo T7600 2.33GHz which has a thermal design power rating of 34W. (3W difference in this case).

Padhead wrote:Do they turn up on the used market?

Not sure on the used market but they can be found on ebay NEW check out this link.

Looks like there are a bunch of used T7200 processors on ebay, but I didn't see any 7600's.

Do they make anything in between?

I think that the 7600 is the highest I can upgrade a T60 T2500 to.

What would be the advantage of a T7200 to a T2500? All I can see is the 4MB L2 Cache instead of the T2700's 2MB L2 cache.

Plus the aforementioned 64 bit support instead of 32 bit. Which might come in handy in 3 to 5 years. LOL

For 99% uses - absolutely nothing!
Benchmarks tell one thing, but no one seldom look at their own habits. This is in a laptop. For 3D work the GPU is still the huge limiting factor in all but the fastest gamer laptops. For 2D there is no difference since CPUs and the coding are so efficient these days.

The HDD is also limited in performance because it is a laptop hdd. Desktops have much faster FSBs - not the 667 MHz which is considered about lowend.

The T7XXX series would be the way to go if 64 bit software was required.
IMO, never upgrade to the top end model - the T7600. It will always be the most expensive, and it is the one that will exist in the fewest quantities thereby always driving the price up.
A T7200 would IMO be a good replacement - the 4 MB cache improves performance.

Padhead wrote: What would be the advantage of a T7200 to a T2500? All I can see is the 4MB L2 Cache instead of the T2700's 2MB L2 cache.

I believe clock for clock it's an order of magnitude faster. 20% is what someone here has said and I have also seen that. This is due to improvements in the architecture.

And, regarding the cache improvements. That is how the Intel architectures usually thrive. It makes a lot of difference in various applications.

I bought a new T7200 cpu and upgrade my T60 a while back. I choose T7200 because of the price, also one of my friend bought a T7600 and was having heat issues. I guess it really depends on how you use your tp but the differenct between the 2 on my day-to-day task is un-noticable.

I am currently run Vista Ultimate 64 with 2Gb ram and performance is very acceptable.

If you plan on running Virtual Machines on your tp, these 7XXX series cpu also has intel VT that **might** give you some extra performance when running VM.

HTH

Padhead wrote:Looks like there are a bunch of used T7200 processors on ebay, but I didn't see any 7600's.

Try this ebay link for a NEW T7600 and for a NEW T7400 this ebay link

What I am looking for is a used chip at a fraction of cost of a new one.

Fyi, I paid around US$200 include shipping for a new ( but OEM i.e. not box version ) T7200 cpu few months ago.

thanks Tony. What was involved in the installation?

Kinda off topic - but I don't think all systems with a core 2 are 64 bit compatible.

My inspiron 1520 has a Core 2 and it isn't 64bit compatible.

You sure your inspiron is a Core 2 Duo? Google "Intel Processor Spec finder" to see that all Core 2 Duo chips have 64-bit technology.

You might have the Core Duo. Sometimes manufacturers like to trick you and presend "Dual Core" along "Core2" - and most people won't know the difference.

Hi all! I have a T60 Core Duo(2008-CM5) with a T2400 (1.83ghz) chip, 2gb RAM, 5400rpm 120GB HD, dual-boot XP and Vista Ultimate, and running ArticSilver5.. what faster series cpu can I bump up to? I play a number of FPS games (Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Battlefield 1942, etc)..

TJ
---------------------------------------------------------------
CPU(s)
Number of CPUs 2

CPU#1 APIC ID = 0
Name Intel Pentium M
Code Name Yonah
Specification Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz
Family / Model / Stepping 6 E C
Extended Family / Model 0 0
Package mPGA-479M
Technology 65 nm
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
CPU Clock Speed 1828.7 MHz
Clock multiplier x 11.0
Front Side Bus Frequency 166.2 MHz
Bus Speed 665.0 MHz
L1 Data Cache 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L1 Instruction Cache 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Cache 2048 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Latency 15
L2 Speed 1828.7 MHz (Full)
L2 Location On Chip
L2 ECC Check disabled
L2 Data Prefetch Logic yes
L2 Bus Width 256 bits

CPU#2 APIC ID = 1
Name Intel Pentium M
Code Name Yonah
Specification Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz
Family / Model / Stepping 6 E C
Extended Family / Model 0 0
Package mPGA-479M
Technology 65 nm
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
CPU Clock Speed 1828.7 MHz
Clock multiplier x 11.0
Front Side Bus Frequency 166.2 MHz
Bus Speed 665.0 MHz
L1 Data Cache 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L1 Instruction Cache 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Cache 2048 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Latency 15
L2 Speed 1828.7 MHz (Full)
L2 Location On Chip
L2 ECC Check disabled
L2 Data Prefetch Logic yes
L2 Bus Width 256 bits

Mainboard and chipset
Motherboard manufacturer LENOVO
Motherboard model 2008CM5, Not Available
BIOS vendor LENOVO
BIOS revision 79ETD9WW (2.19 )
BIOS release date 09/19/2007
Chipset Intel i945PM/GM/i940GML rev. 03
Southbridge Intel ID27B9 rev. 02

skygodtj wrote:Hi all! I have a T60 Core Duo(2008-CM5) with a T2400 (1.83ghz) chip, 2gb RAM, 5400rpm 120GB HD, dual-boot XP and Vista Ultimate.. what series cpu can I bump up to? TJ

Read earlier in the thread. The max is a T7600.

I am sorting tossing around two options around my inside my head.

1. If I can find a real good deal on a used T2700, I am probably going to put one on mine my T2500. I'll like the T2xxx series 3w lower power requirement over the 34w C2D. Plus, by the time 64-bit apps come along, I'll be out of this machine.

2. Or I might pick-up a 7400 or 7600 for the extra 2MB L2 Cache.

Hmmm. Still thinking it all through. Let me know if you have final thoughts on my choice.

After I posted I found a couple other threads abt T60 cpu upgrades and decided I'll go with the 7600, and will just watch eBay for the best prices, (Newegg is too much $$). Going from the 2400 to a T7200(only 170mhz increase) isnt worth the cost to me, (but maybe a 7400 is).. bumping from 2mb to 4mb cache is a better perf increase, and the 7600 would be a better fit for Vista64.

TJ

Yes, it is very much so...possible. My T60p (see sig) came with a T2600 Core Duo at 2.16GHz. You just need to watch the front side bus speed, which is 667MHz on all of the T60/p's I've seen. So the highest possible Core 2 Duo you can install is the T7600, which I did, fairly recently. It runs at 2.33GHz, is a 64-bit CPU, but FULLY backwards-compatible, and has 4MB of L2 cache. A T7200 (2GHz) Core 2 Duo is still faster than its Core Duo counterpart, the T2500 (2Ghz), but in that case, as in mine, I didn't really buy it for the additional 133MHz of clock speed, although there are a few other things you will gain with the Core 2 Duo. I wanted it mainly for the 64-bit aspect. There are a few other members who have done the same with absolutely no problem. T7400's run at 2.16GHz, and are much less expensive than the T7600 I'm told, and there is only 133MHz of difference.

The procedure does void the warranty if you decide to do it yourself, so KEEP the original Core Duo chip, in case you need to send it in, which, in my case, I haven't had to do in 9 nears of owning 12 Thinkpads.

skygodtj wrote:Chipset Intel i945PM/GM/i940GML rev. 03

That's the only line that matters. You are cleared for take off, my man, for a Core 2 Duo up to 2.33GHz (T7600). Your BIOS can be upgraded to v2.20, but it is not necessary.

wahoo!! ok, thanks guys.. I'll start lookin for the 7600's!

TJ

Happy hunting!

Peak2Peak wrote:

Padhead wrote:I have a T60 / T2500 which is a Core Duo 2.0 GHz. Is it possible to upgrade it to a Core 2 Duo?

Most definitely YES - the power house CPU's are T7200, T7400 & T7600.

The answer is not a DEFINITE yes, but a PROBABLE yes.

Very early T60 revision 1 and 2 motherboards will NOT accept Core 2 CPUs b/c they do not meet the proper VRM (voltage regulator module) specs.

You can find your MB revision using the program CPU-Z (google it), and on one of the tabs there will be the MB info.


The VAST majority of T60s shipped with Rev 3 boards, but I have run across a few VERY EARLY boards that were Rev 1/2 and definitely do not support C2D chips.

Dead1nside wrote:

Padhead wrote: What would be the advantage of a T7200 to a T2500? All I can see is the 4MB L2 Cache instead of the T2700's 2MB L2 cache.

I believe clock for clock it's an order of magnitude faster. 20% is what someone here has said and I have also seen that. This is due to improvements in the architecture.

And, regarding the cache improvements. That is how the Intel architectures usually thrive. It makes a lot of difference in various applications.

Mis-information. It is DEFINITELY NOT an order of magnitude (10 TIMES) faster. It's 5-25% on average, depending on the application.

Padhead wrote:What I am looking for is a used chip at a fraction of cost of a new one.

You might find one for 10-15% off, but not a FRACTION of the cost.

USED CPUs are just as good as new. Why? Simple - these things are designed by Intel with lifespans of 25+ years (how did I come up with that number - that is what NASA requires for the use of commercial CPUs in space applications like satellites).

Seriously, a 2-3 year old CPU (assuming no PHYSICAL or OVERCLOCKING damage) runs just as well, just as fast, and with the same thermal properties as a brand new identical model CPU.