Thinkpads Forum

Reasons:

1) It takes a nap every now and then (and just did it again) just freezing for a couple of seconds with no apparent reason or explanation

2) It bluescreens if i wank the LAN rj-45

3) It bluescreens sometimes when i insert an USB stick

4) When the screen goes off, it takes forever to come back on and blinks a couple of times

5) The spot over the PCMCIA slot is flexy

6) The 'swipe finger' message remains even after swiped a finger

7) It sometimes bluescreens for no apparent reason what so ever

8) It came with SQL server and some Microsoft office programs installed that i consider useless.

9) It has some logo other than IBM thinkpad

10) The sound lacks bass and is overall too low

11) The keyboard is not up to par in comparison to t23

12) It takes (sometimes) over 20 seconds to open a folder

13) It takes near 5 seconds to open 'my computer'

14) The screen doesent refresh and leaves white spots in windows.

15) It doesen't have a true BIOS

16) the screen hinge has a slight wobble, when you set the screen on some position it wobbles around a couple of degrees depending if on which side of the screen is facing gravity

17) The wireless indicator led bleeds over to the BT led, is too bright and is blinking annoyingly

18) The thinklight is poorly positioned and shows the innards of the laptop.

Update 19) The screen arrived flawed, there is a dim spot on the lower right corner about 3mm in diameter.


Should i just throw this in the garbage, or do you guys think replasing the factory installed XP in favor to windows 2000 could fix some of this madness.

What's the restocking fee, i feel robbed ?!
This machine can't hold a candle to a t23 let a lone the t4x series.


--Zaph

btw, it's a T61 6460-6WG

Admin Edit: Pointless poll deleted and childish language usage cleaned up.

Well...you might just have a lemon on your hands...although a lot of people would agree with you, more people than not are probably happy with their T61/p. I see posts like yours on this forum, as well as others, every single day. My biggest "beef" with it is are the screens, and the lack of 4:3 ratio 15" models. If I went with the 14.1" at 4:3, the only one they have, then I can't get more than 128MB of VRAM. It just feels like I can't win with that series.

At any rate, I would have already gotten myself a T61p but my preferences aren't met, but that's me...There are a lot of people that are likely very happy with their T61/p's. And content people don't scream about their systems working "so well", and how excited they are...except maybe a few crazies like me. haha...Yes, I am extremely excited over my recent installation of Vista x64, for example...

Bottom line: If you can come up with EIGHTEEN reasons as to why you hate your T61 so much, I think it's time to move on. If you recently got it, return it for a refund, or get it exchanged for a new/different one.

Best of luck to you!

Sure sounds like you might have gotten a "Friday" machine.

I have to say I'm happy with my T61p.

Rob

i voted for

Ritual dismanteling and sacrifice to appease the gods

but to get serious now... i think most of your problems come from windows Vista. Some problems souch as the fingerprint reading errors come from lenovo's poor thinkvantage software. i had the same issue and i have simply decided not to use fingerprint reader. most of the thinkvantage software is gone from my system, i found it either useless or too buggy. after you do that there are several registry tweaks that you can do to speed up windows XP. it takes me less than one second to open my computer or any other folder. my boot time is ~1min with most of the system services turned on. search the forum, there is a lot of posts in here in how to speed up Vista and XP. To prove my point, on my T23 windows XP works much faster than Kubuntu, the reasons is because XP was tweaked and Kubuntu wasn't (im trying to learn this [censored] OS).
Another thing. I have T60 and not T61, im not sure about the difference between keyboards there but my T60 keyboard doesn't flex at all while the T23 keyboard flexes a lot. I could pick up my T60 by one corner and not worry about anything braking while the T23 is extremly fragile.
All its going to take is to work a little bit on your T61. Took me a while to get my T60 working the way I wanted it to, but in the end its all worth it.

A little more details about the machine would be nice to have as a reference.

A lot of the things you mention "going wrong with the laptop" are actually software related issues - if you're running vista you need to really tweak it (from what I understand) before it starts performing like it should - if it's XP, on the other hand, there's some tweaking involved as well.

Of the 18 issues you post, 4 are hardware related. Concerning the hinge, if you feel it's that wobbly, send it back to have it fixed, 2) check which version of the keyboard you have CHICONY or NMB and have that replaced if you're really dissatisfied with it 3) thinklight - well I dunno what to do with that - I hardly ever use the thing quite honestly, 4) light bleeding from BT to WiFi - no idea there either - perhaps have the plastic bezel changed while they're fixing the hinge...

Regarding the software problems, best just do a clean install of XP and be done with it. Customize the software yourself - it's the best thing you could do to any machine sold with "pre-load of junk" (it's really unfortunate that so many comp manufacturers are compelled to load so much junk these days.

But in essence, you may be right - sadly, the days of the old ThinkPads are gone and sadly there aren't many laptop manufacturers that make a good product anymore either. Unfortunately the same applies with electronics across the board - from "a" to "z".

Look, I'm no apologist for Lenovo, as I've got issues with them as well (especially regarding the service here in Canada), and I'd concede that their quality is slipping (despite the "promises" and "intentions" and all the other nice buzzwords emanating from the company) but I'd say they still make a half-decent laptop compared to the other manufacturers.

If you want to read up on some hardware horror stories, go look at some HP/Dell/Fujitsu/Sony discussion groups and you'll see that you're relatively in a good position.

10 out of 18 complaints are OS- or software-related.   have you tried performing a custom restore?

regarding the machine itself, if you aren't happy with it then you're better off returning it.   you've obviously thought long enough to populate a list of complaints, problems, and shortcomings with the machine and will likely never be happy with it in the end.

regarding #9, IBM logos can be purchased through ebay if the "thinkpad" logo bothers you.   future thinkpads from here on out will all come with a thinkpad logo so the T61 and T61p are the last of a generation.

mattbiernat wrote:i think most of your problems come from windows Vista.

none of his problems came from vista.   his came from the factory with XP.

Zaph wrote:Should i just throw this piece of excrement to the garbage, or do you guys think replasing the factory installed XP in favor to windows 2000 could fix some of this madness.

Thinkpads during the IBM era were never the flawless devices some of the folks on these boards make them out to be. I've had an IBM-made T43 and a Lenovo-made T61 and the T61 blows the T43 out of the water in build quality and screen brightness.

Might be so, but i count myself in the number of 'some people'!

I have years of on hands experience with T600's T21's T23's T42's and all of them were flawless machines with rock solid builds.

This T61 is the first one that i can flex with my little finger. Sure there were some discoloration temporarily when i pick them up by the edge of the monitor but never any permanent damage. Allso, the screen brigtness on this T61 is well within tolerance of comfy usability, as it was on all the thinkpads i'we had.

--Zaph

newt43 wrote:I've had an IBM-made T43 and a Lenovo-made T61 and the T61 blows the T43 out of the water in build quality and screen brightness.

I too once had a T43 and a T60 (both 14.1" SXGA+) and the T43 felt so soft and had squeaks all over the place. My current T42 is sturdier than that T43, but is still not as solid as the T60.

The same is true for the R series. A friend of mine bought an 15.4" R61 last week and it's obviously more solid than both of my 15.0" R50p's.

FWIW the T61's rollcage provides all the support for the laptop's innards. The palmrest and other plastic covers don't need to support any part of the laptop and therefore don't and as such are made thin to save weight and cut down on bulk.

Think of said superficial parts as a fleshy countenance hiding a Terminator-style skeleton underneath.

Tons of other laptops--even pre-Lenovo ThinkPads--feature clunky, thick plastic palmrests and casing parts because they lack an underlying rollcage and require all that plastic crap to hold everything together.

I think you are in need of Windows XP. Dump Vista and give it a try.

As far as the build, we are dealing with a PLASTIC unit which is made to be light weight. Additionally, Lenovo make tens of thousands of these units and there is no way they or any other computer is perfect. Yes, the build may not be as strong as a T23, 43, Etc. Just the same, my 2006 Honda Civic is not even a close 2nd to my 1989 Civic which was a real tank.

Yes, people want lighter weight computers and they will tend to flex somewhat, but all in all, both my T60 and T61 are fantastic units. I would buy another Lenovo in a heartbeat.

MY 2 CENTS

Hmmm.. for what it's worth, my T61 seems much sturdier than my old T42 and I really enjoy using it - works very well for all my needs, haven't had a problem with any operating systems yet, except for the wifi in linux, but that's easily solved with a bit of research.

before i start my replies, did you get this from ibm or you got it elsewhere? i have yet to see a thinkpad comes with sql server preinstalled.

and did you get it new or used?

For the screen and hinge issue, send it back. I don't see that Lenovo should charge restocking when they have shipped up a defective machine. Like others say, most of your issues are the software. I agree with you that it's a real pain Lenovo puting Office on the machine because the darn thing won't uninstall and takes up valuable disk space. My company choose Lenovo partly becuase we didn't have to put up with installed software we did not want.

Either you have a lemon or are still in love with your T23

It may be time to move on

Could be a ID10T error

I really love my T61p!

o1001010 wrote: i have yet to see a thinkpad comes with sql server preinstalled.

Apparently you have never seen one like my R61. It came with Vista ultimate and sql server installed right out of the box.

i got the hinge wobble thing ,really irritates me.
about blue screens , never got a single ONE ! using it every day for many hours for over 6 months.

it's very quick on Vista 64 with 3G or ram. So all performance issues that you experience are not related to the T61 itself . more to your specific hardware configuration , OS and application you are using. and yeah to the condition of that installation.

any software issues are not t61 issues , all the laptops today are build VERY similar. i mean they all use the same chipset. not much difference between them.

so only mechanical , keyboard, structure ,LCD and such are valid points.
by the way my screen dont have the problem you mention.

hey nothing is perfect....i got my laptop , week after a black line started to show up on the LCD. but it was replaced so no complains.
the hings do anoy me . and i plan to send it in...

o1001010 wrote:i have yet to see a thinkpad comes with sql server preinstalled.

My X300 did.

carbon_unit wrote:

o1001010 wrote: i have yet to see a thinkpad comes with sql server preinstalled.

Apparently you have never seen one like my R61. It came with Vista ultimate and sql server installed right out of the box.

this this a vista thing? i seen t23, t41. t42, t42, t60, t61, x42, x60, x61, both in tablet and the normal compact form and i never seen sql. but then again i order them all in xp

Its probably a Vista thing. I have a T61p and as soon as I took it out of the box, I wiped it right away and installed XP Pro. I REALLY want to install XP Pro x64 but I have been having a hard time finding a driver for the Atheros WLAN card... I have had mine since November and I have never had one blue screen or ever had to cold boot it... EVER. The most solid laptop I have ever had. I had a Medion, lmao, and I had to send that crap in twice before it was even 6 months old...

Sounds like you have Vista. A lot of the complaints you have, momentary freezes, etc. seam to be inherent in Vista, at least for me.

I think MS has lost their way with this Vista. There is some incremental improvement but I can't say that productivity has increased. Perhaps decreased.

Word processing with Wordstar on an original 5 MHz 8080 PC, was ever bit as fast as with Word under Vista on what is really a super computer.

jgrobertson wrote:Sounds like you have Vista. A lot of the complaints you have, momentary freezes, etc. seam to be inherent in Vista, at least for me.

I think MS has lost their way with this Vista. There is some incremental improvement but I can't say that productivity has increased. Perhaps decreased.

Word processing with Wordstar on an original 5 MHz 8080 PC, was ever bit as fast as with Word under Vista on what is really a super computer.

Exactly. I installed Vista Ultimate 32 on my desktop and experienced random reboots, blue screens and countless driver issues. Even after Vista SP1. Wiped it and went back to XP Pro x64 Edition and haven't had one issue since... MS should've stuck with a good thing.

i wonder why some people experience such problems with VISTA.
i dont even know how BSOD looks on VISTA. interesting.
i still didnt install SP1 and it's very stable and run really faster then XP.

danny_isr wrote:i wonder why some people experience such problems with VISTA.
i dont even know how BSOD looks on VISTA. interesting.
i still didnt install SP1 and it's very stable and run really faster then XP.

Probably just lucky that Vista likes all the drivers for your hardware. I would BSOD from my sound card and its a SB x-Fi. Plus I get better FPS in games in xp64 than Vista. My buddy at work just built a new system with a Q6600 quad core and a Nvidia 8800GTX and he got better FPS in xp64 over Vista as well... However, Vista has DX10 but I heard MS is working on DX10 for XP... w000000t.

yeah but we are talking about the same machine here using the same drivers .... should be the same. i dont think there is luck factor here. those are not custom made Desktop PCs....

Good point. Plus it wasn't my T61p that was random BSODing, it was my desktop. Thinkpad ran "ok" but I get better performance using xp64...

I love my T61 as described below .... just as much as my T42 sitting next to it right now.

In the real world we hear only about the problems. I wonder how many satisfied users (of any product) there are for every unsatisfied user?

Generally speaking, a satisfied consumer rarely takes the time to post praise ..... that's just basic Marketing 101 (Business School).

I'm with Danny regarding Vista, i.e., quite surprised that so many seem to have problems with it.

It is quite stable and fast for me (after shutting off UAC and a few other tweaks), and now that I'm fully adjusted to it and as familiar with it as I used to be with XP, I would really hate to have to go back to XP (which I thought was great for the many years that I used it).

ok, so it is a vista thing.
as always, any laptop i purchase gets a zero first (maxtor tool, zero all hard drive, full) and then xp clean install.

i looked into xp 64 for my t42 and t60, t60 is a candidate but for older machines such as t42 which the max ram supported is 2gb it is not worth it. but i did have problems finding 64 bit drivers for xp x64

as far as vista, i built a pc specificly to test vista with sp1.
e3110, 4gb ram, and geforece 8800gt.
the result is that vista enterprise 64 is very usable. granted there are things that is more straightforward in xp are now hidden in vista (changing settings, telnet) but it have been stable so far and i see 4 gb of rams. the things is do not use ntune from nvidia with vista 64 because it will bsod upon launch.