Nvidia Quadro 570FX crippled on 14"?

[leesiulung]

I keep hearing the Quadro 570FX on the 14.1" T61p's are crippled.

1. In what way are the Quadro 570FX (128MB) crippled?

2. What graphics card in the market do the Quadro 570FX (128MB) perform on par to?

3. How does the Quadro 570FX (128MB) compare to the Quadro NVS 140M?

4. Anyone know of any site that has plenty of resources on mobile graphics card or have benchmarks?

I need a reasonable discrete graphics card for XNA development and light gaming....

[aaa]

Probably the bandwidth is halved along with the halved memory amount.

Basically, the GPU can only operate as fast as the memory can feed it. So if you halve the memory's "speed" (bandwidth), it causes a slowdown.

Benches:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Gra ... 844.0.html

They don't contrast the models with different memory though.

[leesiulung]

Thanks, that is a great list of benches.

Can anyone confirm that Lenovo crippled the memory bus width to 64bit instead of 128bit?

The other question is why on earth would they cripple the 14.1" version instead of keeping it the same as the 15.4" version? Aren't business people more likely to get 4:3 aspect ratio rather than the entertainment driven widescreen?

[icantux]

Never understood that either. Seriously, what is the benefit of having the 570 over the 140M ??

For comparison's sake, the only difference between a T61 and T61p with discreet graphics card is the NVS140M v FX570 respectively (note: taking the 14" 4:3 model into account). Difference between these two cards is minimal!! The FX570 has more pixel shaders and is very slightly more powerful than the NVS 140M but it has a downside as well - the 570M is more power hungry (reducing the battery life) than the 140M, while essentially doing the same thing. Both cards have the same bandwidth and memory size, both support OpenGL, both support DirectX10 ...

T61p for performance? Not on the 14" 4:3!

[Aroc]

The other question is why on earth would they cripple the 14.1" version instead of keeping it the same as the 15.4" version?

If they did, it was probably due to cooling in the smaller chassis.

Aren't business people more likely to get 4:3 aspect ratio rather than the entertainment driven widescreen?

Yes and no. Some professionals will need OpenGL and high resolution (1680x1050 or 1920x1200) yes be willing to lug around a larger and heavier chassis (not me!).

I would have liked to have seen the 256MB GPU from the 15.4 T61p in the 14.1 T61p, but if Lenovo can't get it to dissipate heat properly in the smaller chassis, they would need to jettison it.

We have some Dell Precision mobile workstations at work (15.4 inch widescreen) and those units with 256MB OpenGL GPUs are virtual toaster ovens when running Solidworks. The t61p I have seems to fair much better in the heat department (but it only has 128MB of dedicated RAM for the GPU). I wonder how how a 256MB model in a 14.1 form factor would have been.

[leesiulung]

I'm not an expert and might be misinformed, but the way I see it is:

- cutting bandwidth to half with 64bit drastically affects performance
- cutting the frequency would have less of an impact and have a big effect on temperature. besides 15.4" to 14.1" form fact isn't that much bigger....

I'm left wondering if this is a cost decision, because a 15.4" is automatically going to be priced higher, thus absorbing the cost of the more expensive chip.

[demossmd]

I just got my T61p 14.1" 4:3. I'm very happy with it although I was surprised to see Windows give the FX570 a score of 4.2. I've seen other T61p models get 4.8 and one person claimed 5.x, but I suspect those were the 15.4" 256MB FX570 version.

I'll be putting this mobo into a T60 15.0" and which will have a QXGA screen...a big soldering project I don't plan on doing for another month.

Anyway, I have a question since people spoke about 64 bit.

This T61p has a 64 bit Vista Business operating system factory installed and has the Intel 9300 2.5Ghz 6MB processor and I know it's a Santa Rosa platform mobo.

Now excuse my ignorance with 64 bit. I'm a noob in this department. This is my first 64 bit computer.

Is this a full 64 bit computer? I installed a product called Minefield version 3.2 which is a 64 bit version of Firefox and after the install it gave me some error and wouldn't open. I guess before I start installing stuff, I should find out if it's the real deal or if this is a masked 32 bit with just a 64 bit OS.

[Marin85]

I'll be putting this mobo into a T60 15.0" and which will have a QXGA screen...a big soldering project I don't plan on doing for another month.

That sound really great! Good luck and don´t forget to post back when you finish your project

As for the X64: yes this mobo/T9300 cpu can be considered as "full" x64, i.e. it´s capable of x64 (64bit commands, words etc.) and can run x64 OS like Vista x64 and the various Linux 64bit (precisely, x86_64). The browser you are referring to probably crashed due to different reasons (I believe it runs on XP x64 more or less without problems). Alone the fact that you was able to install that program means that that specific Vista setup was x64. FYI, applications with native x64 support like Matlab or Autocad run fine in Vista x64.

Hope this helps

Marin

[demossmd]

That sound really great! Good luck and don´t forget to post back when you finish your project

As for the X64: yes this mobo/T9300 cpu can be considered as "full" x64, i.e. it´s capable of x64 (64bit commands, words etc.) and can run x64 OS like Vista x64 and the various Linux 64bit (precisely, x86_64). The browser you are referring to probably crashed due to different reasons (I believe it runs on XP x64 more or less without problems). Alone the fact that you was able to install that program means that that specific Vista setup was x64. FYI, applications with native x64 support like Matlab or Autocad run fine in Vista x64.

Hope this helps

Marin

Will post it here and probably youtube, etc. I believe it's been done many times before so I'm not a pioneer here. Although I do want to install a internal webcam into the T60p frame with a T61p mobo. But nobody has responded to that post so I assume nobody knows or has attempted it yet (at least on this forum).

Yes that helps. When I installed it, it wanted to install it into the Program File (x86) folder that is labeled x86, so I changed that to install in the one that is just labeled Program Files, which I assume is where all the x64 programs should go. How to know exactly when a program is running x64 is confusing, too. Sigh, this probably should be discussed on a different thread.

[Marin85]

If the program is written and compiled for x64 (i.e. x64), then it is "running in x64". Most software automagically recognizes if it should install in Program Files x86 or Program Files (x64), so you don´t need to adjust these settings. 64bit, 32bit, 16bit etc are not simply some kind of modes a program is operating in, but its fundamental architecture -> [ulr=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit]at wiki[/url] you may find some more information on this subject.

Cheers,

Marin

(BTW, from what I have heard swapping the T60p mobo with the one from T61p isn´t an easy task... )

[demossmd]

(BTW, from what I have heard swapping the T60p mobo with the one from T61p isn´t an easy task... )

I know and putting a QXGA display in it is a pain too because you have to solder wires to extend the QXGA ribbon cable and possible change things software wise, but I don't have anything else to cure my disease for QXGA resolution with 8GB of ram. The price I pay for being a high DPI geek. If Lenovo had put that same w700ds dual-screen in the w500 then I would have bought it without hesitation, but a 17" widescreen notebook is too big IMO and especially that one at 2 inches thick, 11+ pounds, etc. It's way too big.

Although I'm patiently waiting for the gScreen's release date of Feb. 25th on Amazon. It's dual 15.4", but whether it can handle WUXGA is still unknown. The website oddly doesn't state the resolution which is very strange considering its is the first true dual-screen notebook. I don't have my hopes up. http://www.gscreencorp.com I may be able to avoid all of this transferring of parts if that computer is dual WUXGA. I'd prefer dual QXGA (2048x1536) as it's nearly 1/3rd more the resolution but the world is now widescreen. I'd be okay with that if they could exceed the 1920x1200 hump. I'll blame Apple for adopting the 100ppi mentality...jk, I had to blame someone.

There's a poll on the gscreen corp site that asks what size laptop they'd like to see dual screen and 17" is winning by a landslide. So sad. It's the same resolution capability as a 15.4, yet I"m stuck in a low ppi loving world.

I do love this T61p. Very nice lappy. I won't be doing any modifications to it for another month, I have too many things to do in the interim.

[Troels]

Hi Demossmd, posted in the other thread too
Sounds like a very interesting project - let us know how it goes. I'll put up some pics of my current QXGA T60p in the picture forum later today if i get the time.
You should just use the normal T60/T61 15" cable with your QXGA - it's a bit too long, since the connector on the qxga is positioned slightly lower but it should be no problem. Fitting the thinklight can take a litte time, but it just fits.
I think we're still only seeing WUXGA since the dual-LVDS doesn't really provide anymore margin for higher clock rates, which is required for higher resolutions. This is actually also a problem for the QXGA, where Idtech has decided to decrease the refresh rate to 42 Hz, although it was 60 Hz on their (and everybody else's) UXGAs. WQXGA would kill all hope of similar refresh rates and just reasonable power consumption.
That gScreen looks interesting - never heard of them. Must be some very complicated and robust mechanics to slide one lcd behind the other when the lid is closed.

[demossmd]

Hi Demossmd, posted in the other thread too
Sounds like a very interesting project - let us know how it goes. I'll put up some pics of my current QXGA T60p in the picture forum later today if i get the time.
You should just use the normal T60/T61 15" cable with your QXGA - it's a bit too long, since the connector on the qxga is positioned slightly lower but it should be no problem. Fitting the thinklight can take a litte time, but it just fits.
I think we're still only seeing WUXGA since the dual-LVDS doesn't really provide anymore margin for higher clock rates, which is required for higher resolutions. This is actually also a problem for the QXGA, where Idtech has decided to decrease the refresh rate to 42 Hz, although it was 60 Hz on their (and everybody else's) UXGAs. WQXGA would kill all hope of similar refresh rates and just reasonable power consumption.
That gScreen looks interesting - never heard of them. Must be some very complicated and robust mechanics to slide one lcd behind the other when the lid is closed.

I won't be starting this until sometime in March.

Are you saying you've successfully gotten a QXGA display to work using the stock UXGA ribbon cable? That would be great if that's true!

If that's the case, then my question is have you or anyone you know tried to run a T6x using the QXGA ribbon cable? I'm wondering if it would work without EDID changes or whatever it requires with the QXGA, i.e. is the reason the T6x series doesn't just plug and play because people are using the UXGA ribbon cables?

I didn't know the QXGA panels run at 42Hz. I'm okay with lower refresh rates. As long as the refresh rate is above the teens, I'm happy. IDtech high res displays have never been good for gaming, I'm not a gamer.

The gScreen might be one big fake joke on us high resolution nuts.

Appears a year old forum has people overclocking the FX570, apparently it's a great GPU to overclock, and people are getting nearly double the 3dmark06 scores than stock. I don't have a need to do that but it's nice to know it's a GPU that can do it if you wanted to.

[Troels]

The T60/p uses the same cable for all 15" resolutions. It determines the screen resolution from the EDID on the LCD. That also makes it possible for them to blacklist whatever display they want, and it appears they have placed a manufacturer defined string data which must be there in order for the LCD to work.
But from this post, and a few others it seems more or less that this is not a problem with the 14.1" or widescreen resolution T6x/p, but if you just insert the QXGA into the T60/p it will just show a static image - either black or horisontal grey-blue-red bars.
But yes it works fine now, after re-flashing the edid.

Haha.. that's crazy - doubling the 3dmark06 scores just by overclocking
The quadro 570 really sounds very capable - 64 bit bandwidth or not, it should at least be on par with the v5200/v5250, and maybe much faster for some applications.

[demossmd]

The T60/p uses the same cable for all 15" resolutions. It determines the screen resolution from the EDID on the LCD. That also makes it possible for them to blacklist whatever display they want, and it appears they have placed a manufacturer defined string data which must be there in order for the LCD to work.
But from this post, and a few others it seems more or less that this is not a problem with the 14.1" or widescreen resolution T6x/p, but if you just insert the QXGA into the T60/p it will just show a static image - either black or horisontal grey-blue-red bars.
But yes it works fine now, after re-flashing the edid.

That's strange that the T60/p uses the lower resolution cables to run the QXGA panel, because the R5x and T4x series require the QXGA ribbon cable to work with the QXGA panel along with the QXGA inverter. Does the T60/p use the same inverter for the QXGA panel?

I haven't done much research (like on EDID flashing) on this other than knowing that the 14.1" non-widescreen T61/p mobo fits into the T60/p 15.0 notebooks.