a graduating students' dilemma: t42p or t61?

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thinkpadsrock · #1 Post by **thinkpadsrock** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:48 pm

This thread requires a bit of background:

During my freshman year of college I bought a brand new T42p. It was amazing: Intel pentium M 745 1.8Ghz, 60GB 7200 RPM drive, 1G RAM, 128 mb video card, 15.0 in UXGA.
I absolutely loved it. I wanted to keep it for five years or more.

Then, last month, tragedy struck as my treasured thinkpad got run over by a friend's car (don't ask). Even IBM's legendary sturdiness couldn't save the screen and motherboard from a 1000lb+ VW.

Now, I'm forced to buy a new laptop. I have come down to two decisions:

1) Another T42p (refurbished, same specs as above but w/ 80 gig drive & 2 gig RAM, price = $600 w/shipping from ebay ibmreseller)

2) Lenovo T61 (big sale model, 2.1 Ghz Core 2 Duo, 160 Gb 5400 RPM, 2 gig ram, 128 mb video card, 15.4 in WSXGA price = $1250 w/tax & shipping direct from lenovo)

While at first glance, this doesn't seem like much of a comparison, I must say I was very partial to the T42p. Again, I was hoping to use my original T42 at least through 2010. Is now the time to make the leap up? Will new programs be increasingly taxing on a T42p? I'm NOT planning on upgrading to Vista anytime soon.

Issues:

I'm not a big 3D gamer, and I like old games that probably won't run well in widescreen (Civilization 2, Disciples, Starcraft). Overall, the laptop will be more for casual use. Also, I'm a bit leery about getting used to the widescreen format in general. Finally, the weird, off-center screen of the T61 seems annoying.

Call me a skeptic, but I trust an IBM model more than one mad by lenovo.
I did get to see a T61 up close today though and it seemed VERY sturdy.

The T42p is going to be only half the cost of the T61. But it's a heck of a deal for the T61. Should I hold the horses though and wait for a deal on a future T62?

Sorry for the wordiness. Any feedback is most appreciated!!!

#2 Post by **Harryc** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:50 pm

Mod edit: Cross posting not allowed on the forums. Your other post has been deleted. --Harryc--

thinkpadsrock · #3 Post by **thinkpadsrock** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:54 pm

whoops.

#4 Post by **BillMorrow** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:58 pm

there is a sale on thinkpads..
UP to 30% off and more when combined with the eCoupons discounts..

heres a link from an email i got earlier today..
heckuvadeal..

don't worry about the cross post..
just please don't do it again..

OH! and while the T40p was sweet its now a bit long in the tooth..
get a T61 and DON'T leave it in driveways or on car trunks..

sktn77a · #5 Post by **sktn77a** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:24 pm

The T4x series were great in their day - I know, see my sig

But that was then and this is now. Get the T61/p. You'll get over the T42p. Right now they have a 28% savings on the Lenovo website and a further 10% savings with the eCoupons.

Cant beat that price!

o1001010 · #6 Post by **o1001010** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:19 am

for your purpose you can stick with a t42. if i am not mistaken the t42 with 9600 radeon is actually faster than the 128 firegl. but vista won't run aero because it is 64mb. there are still new t42 on ebay if you really want a t42. but for my purpose, i will go with a t61 standard screen. nvidia always > ati

pianowizard · #7 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:36 am

o1001010 wrote:there are still new t42 on ebay

Don't be misled by those unethical eBay sellers such as Thinkpadworld. "Factory sealed" is NOT new. Instead, they are used laptops, many of which are quite beat up. They put the used laptop in a box and sealed the package in a factory -- that's all.

pae77 · #8 Post by **pae77** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:08 am

I have a nice T42p in excellent cond still under original factory warranty I could sell you with lots of accessories & extras for the same price you mentioned. PM me if you want to discuss it. However, having used both, I would definitely recommend getting a T61, if you can afford it. The C2Duo's are a huge leap forward, imo, plus many other technological advances are in the T61 series. I really would loath to have to go back to my nice but dated T42p after getting used to what I have now (see sig). PS, despite what you hear, Vista is cool too.

foodle · #9 Post by **foodle** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:26 am

T61 for sure, as long as you can afford the extra $650.

First off, the T4x series have the notorious motherboard flex problem that killed my dear T41p (RIP) so the reiliability of a used/old machine is suspect. As a response to this problem, the T6x series have the magnesium rollcage for much higher case robustness.

Second, unless everything you run is from the T4x era, you'll find the faster processor, memory, and disk on the T61 much snappier.

thinkpadsrock · #10 Post by **thinkpadsrock** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:47 pm

pianowizard wrote:Don't be misled by those unethical eBay sellers such as Thinkpadworld. "Factory sealed" is NOT new. Instead, they are used laptops, many of which are quite beat up. They put the used laptop in a box and sealed the package in a factory -- that's all.

The one I want to get comes from ibmfactoryoutlet http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... 200&page=4

From what I've read, refurbs are often a good deal. But I don't want some dinged up case or a shiny keyboard or something. Are most refurbs pretty well used or closer to mint status. Does it vary a lot?

whizkid · #11 Post by **whizkid** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:07 pm

Even from ibmfactoryoutlet, it varies a lot. They get boxes from IBM, don't open them, and ship them out. I had issues with one I bought, but they straightened everything out, and ended up with more machine than promised, but it took a while.

Here's my two cents: If you really have the money to spare, get the T61, but if you have better use for that money now, get the older machine, and buy a new (or just newer) machine after college. I find it hard to recommend a brand new machine for anyone who's not a power user, gamer, or programmer.

There are more options: 1) T60's can be had for around $900 with remaining IBM warranty, dual cores, some able to run 64-bit. 2) If you'll just be taking notes and writing papers, buy a nice 600X for $200. You won't stress quite so much if it gets run over. :)

thinkpadsrock · #12 Post by **thinkpadsrock** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:39 pm

After browsing the forums on refurbs for some time, I decided to take the plunge and get the T42p from ebay. I'll be praying that it's in good condition. Anyway, I can return unconditionally within 7 days for just a 10% restocking fee, so if I hate it, it's not the end of the world.

Wish me luck!

hart22 · #13 Post by **hart22** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:13 pm

Just one thing for the OP: I'm a bit puzzled by the price you quoted for the T61. I just went to the Lenovo main store and using only the current sale + eCoupon configured the following system for $1270:

T61p - 6459-CTO
C2D T9300 CPU (2.5 GHz, 6 MB L2 cache)
Vista Business 64-bit
15.4 WUXGA
NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M (256 MB OpenGL)
2 GB RAM (2 DIMM)
UltraNav
160 GB HD, 5400 RPM
DVD DL Recordable
Atheros ABG
6-Cell Battery
1-Year Depot Warranty

Granted it will cost $1340 with 6% tax, but it has the WUXGA screen, and RAM & HD from Lenovo. Switching it to the WSXGA+ as the OP originally had, and using 1 GB (1 DIMM) RAM & 80 GB 5400 RPM HD would drop the price to $1090 ($1150 with tax), and you could easily beef up the RAM & HD for much cheaper from, say, NewEgg or the likes.

Wouldn't you be able to afford a much better system for the price you're quoting? This is a T61p after all...

(And can't you configure the video card to display those older games in normal aspect ratio mode on the widescreen?)

o1001010 · #14 Post by **o1001010** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:39 pm

thinkpadsrock wrote:
pianowizard wrote:Don't be misled by those unethical eBay sellers such as Thinkpadworld. "Factory sealed" is NOT new. Instead, they are used laptops, many of which are quite beat up. They put the used laptop in a box and sealed the package in a factory -- that's all.
The one I want to get comes from ibmfactoryoutlet http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... 200&page=4

From what I've read, refurbs are often a good deal. But I don't want some dinged up case or a shiny keyboard or something. Are most refurbs pretty well used or closer to mint status. Does it vary a lot?

thx good to know.
wqhat about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-IBM-THINKPAD-T4 ... 18Q2el1247

thinkpadsrock · #15 Post by **thinkpadsrock** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:44 pm

Here are the complete specs on the t61 I "built":

Core 2 Duo 2.1 Ghz 3mb L2 cache
160gb 5400 RPM
2 gig RAM (1 DIMM)
15.4" WSXGA
128 mb nvidia
DVD RW
9-cell li/ion
standard wireless
1 yr warranty

Subtotal = $1035
Tax = $90
2-day ship = $50

Total = $1183 (I guess I overshot a bit in my OP)

thinkpadsrock · #16 Post by **thinkpadsrock** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:48 pm

o1001010 wrote: thx good to know.
wqhat about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-IBM-THINKPAD-T4 ... 18Q2el1247

That's pretty cool to find a new T43 these days. I'm pretty set on getting a 15.0 or 15.4-incher though, so this one doesn't quite do it for me.

ajkula66 · #17 Post by **ajkula66** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:48 pm

That is absolutely ridiculous since there is no such thing as a new T42...and the price is oh my God why don't I just buy a T61...

sktn77a · #18 Post by **sktn77a** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:13 am

Well, it's "New Old Stock". I bought one from a vendor on e-bay last year for $599 (my #2 daughter is a creature of habit and she just had to have another T4x when her T40 backlight went out). After a bit of wrangling with IBM (it's manufacture date was a year earlier) I got the 3 year new warranty.

But I agree the price of the current one on e-bay is ridiculous - it costs as much as a new T61p!

Crunch · #19 Post by **Crunch** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:31 am

Alright, if noone else will, I certainly would love to. Since the T60/p series, there ARE NO MORE IPS FLEXVIEW screens. The T42p is an awesome machine. I had one. In fact, I found IPS through the T42p. You can go higher to a T43p, or a T60p. I am very passionate about this. I would NOT get a T61 or T61p.

You are also obviously fan of build quality. Well, that would be another reason.

Best wishes...

Crunch

tylerwylie · #20 Post by **tylerwylie** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:36 am

I'd make the same recommendation you see here, get the cheapest HD and RAM you can, and upgrade it yourself(it's really really easy and cheap). And get the T61 definitely.

pianowizard · #21 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:51 am

Crunch wrote:You are also obviously fan of build quality. Well, that would be another reason.

Yep, that would be a good reason for getting a T6* instead of a T4*.

tylerwylie · #22 Post by **tylerwylie** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:26 am

pianowizard wrote:
Crunch wrote:You are also obviously fan of build quality. Well, that would be another reason.
Yep, that would be a good reason for getting a T6* instead of a T4*.

Agreed.

pae77 · #23 Post by **pae77** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:26 am

The build quality of my T61p is simply AWESOME! I love that because of the 360* roll cage, I can put it in a back pack loaded up with ~ 30 lbs of stuff and not have to worry about whether that weight is pressing against or even on top of the laptop.

It's a no brainer to spend a couple hundred extra to get a modern T61 over a T4x.

rhema83 · #24 Post by **rhema83** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:57 am

As much as I love my T42 (it even runs Vista Aero, contrary to an above comment), I think you should get a T61. I've upgraded to a X61 and I can attest to the performance gain from the new technologies such as the Core 2 Duo processor and the faster RAM and HDD. And it doesn't cost a lot since Lenovo always has sales.

If you have not graduated, you can go through the educational portal (it's on the Lenovo homepage) to get additional discount for being a student. All coupon codes will start with USX instead of USP, but otherwise the entire shopping experience will be the same. You will have to prove that you are a student, though.

dr_st · #25 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:34 am

The T61 offers:
* Better performance
* More features
* Sturdier design
* New laptop with warranty

The T42p offers:
* Better screen
* Better looks (T61 wide is _ugly_)
* Cheaper price

Tough choice. I'd try to get a new T60/p with Flexview for a price that's in between the T42p and the T61.

NathanA · #26 Post by **NathanA** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:49 pm

dr_st wrote:Tough choice. I'd try to get a new T60/p with Flexview for a price that's in between the T42p and the T61.

+1 on the T60p recommendation. Have one myself. Previous T42p owner like the OP, and I thought life couldn't get better...until I traded for the T60p.

Only downside I can think of re: the T60p Flexview vs. T61p is the fact that there is no roll cage for the LCD on the T60.

Besides that, the 15" T60p has an upgrade path since it was discovered that the 14.1" T61p mainboard fits perfectly in a 15" T60p case (screwholes and ports line up perfectly). So if you want to go to nVidia graphics, a Socket-P CPU, and > 3GB of RAM, just swap out the mainboard and keep the display. I'm planning on doing that to mine within a year or two, and possibly swapping out the display even for some of that IPS QXGA goodness. YUM.

Unfortunately (for people who want to keep their Flexviews), Intel's future mobile CPU roadmap is quite aggressive, and this setup will become "unattractive" to those with beefy processing requirements within a year or two.

Also, it sounds like the jury is still out on getting Penryn CPUs to work on T61 mainboards (thermal/fan error). Hopefully someone can figure this out soon.

-- Nathan

P.S. -- o1001010 is completely incorrect in all his points. The 9600 in the T42 is NOT faster than the FireGL T2 in the T42p. Do some research and you will find that they are the EXACT SAME SILICON; the difference is in the PCI product ID and the drivers. You can mod Radeon drivers to run on the T2 and they will "think" that it is a 9600. Also, Aero has no problems running on either the 9600 or the FGLT2.

o1001010 · #27 Post by **o1001010** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:02 am

P.S. -- o1001010 is completely incorrect in all his points. The 9600 in the T42 is NOT faster than the FireGL T2 in the T42p. Do some research and you will find that they are the EXACT SAME SILICON; the difference is in the PCI product ID and the drivers. You can mod Radeon drivers to run on the T2 and they will "think" that it is a 9600. Also, Aero has no problems running on either the 9600 or the FGLT2.

i disagree.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=4577
http://forum.notebookreview.com/archive ... -1355.html

but if you use an alt driver and trick xp thinking its a 9600 it will be faster.

unless you talking about cad or opengl stuff, which i doubt because he is a student and i known a lot of architect students in my college time and most of them dread widescreen.

and according to the official requirment you need 128 mb graphic ram to run aero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Aero#Requirements,
sure you can run aero at lower resolution if you have integrate video with 1 gb ram but that is like cheating.

ajkula66 · #28 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:54 am

I third the T60/p recommendation in its FlexView form. Nothing beats that LCD, period. And if you're going to be using that laptop a lot, it becomes priceless for lack of strain on one's eyesight...

After using a T42p with IPS you might want to throw T61 through the window after turning it on initially....so you better purchase accidental coverage should you choose to go that route...

I'd just stay away from "IBM re-sellers" on eBay...when you make up your mind post a WTB ad in the marketplace here and you'll be shopping with peace of mind that doesn't normally come with fleabay purchases...

Good luck.

thinkpadsrock · #29 Post by **thinkpadsrock** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:36 pm

I know it's been awhile, and I've been up for three days straight writing research papers (college!), but here's a quick update on what happened, if you're interested:

Bottom line: I'm getting the t61.

1)Ordered the refurb t42p, cancelled t61 order with lenovo.
2)Thought twice, cancelled the cancel, just in case the t42p really annoyed me. Decided I would cancel later once I knew I liked my t42p
3) t42p arrives i open the box and hold my breath - It looks great! I fire it up and it's running like a charm.
4) run dpb, find no dead pixels, feeling hunky-dory, just like old times
5) Next day, notice dust BEHIND lcd - only like 2 or 3mm across but in a kind of noticeable location. decide to see if I can get used to it it's just a little grey spot, right?
6) later, while typing w/comp in my lap, i notice the "a" button and left shift have a weird rattly feel when I strike them. kind of annoying, cause I like typing in my lap
7)after it's been running for a while, I can hear the hard drive - it's a lot louder than my old 60gb 7200 one (this one is 80gb 5400)

Grey spot is more annoying than I thought. Hard drive whine is annoying. Overall, this is not the machine i want to spend the next two years of my life with
9) Call IBM factoryoutlet. Arrange for return. They're really nice about it, so I'm happy
10) foot the shipping and 10% restock
11) waiting happily again for t61 to arrive!

So it looks like all you t61 players were right. The refurb was worth a shot though, I feel, and overall I was pretty impressed with their customer service.

If Lenovo says my ship date is 4/22, does that mean it's REALLY GOING TO SHIP on that day?

Also, another random Q: I noticed on both the t42p laptops I've used now that there's some flex under the right palm wrest. The frame kind of creaks there when you press a bit. Is this the "motherboard" flex issue that people talk about? If so, I'm looking forward to nice, solid wristrests on the t61.

Peace out dudes! Thanks for all the help!

a graduating students' dilemma: t42p or t61?

a graduating students' dilemma: t42p or t61?

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