Thinkpads Forum

Gosh... I am really getting sick of this... laptop..

My second hard drive has taken a dump this weekend. A new one is on the way under warranty.

I am starting to wonder what the problem is.. I use this laptop to data log in my 2005 STi and I am starting to wonder if the somewhat rough service is too much for the T60.

Before the T60, I used a T40 with zero hard drive problems.

I do run the hard drive protection software that came with the T60 but I have to turn it off during 1/4 mile dragstrip passes or else the hard drive stops working and cuts out my datalogging due to the slight vibration.

I would like to know if anyone has experienced similar hard drive failures with their T60p.

Additionally, I would like to know if anyone has a suggestion on a good rough duty laptop that may better serve my needs.

FYI... I do use the laptop for other very high intensity usages such as... editing and rendering high definition videos... maybe this is too much for a laptop???

Thanks for any information and advice.

There's really no reason your T6x HDD should be any less robust than your T4x. The HD protection software would be expected to cut in when you use it as you describe but it still shouldn't be damaging your drives any more than previously. Try this next one and cross your fingers!

Yeah, just sounds like bad luck to me, I'm afraid. How do you know that the hard drive failures are the fault of the ThinkPad and were not caused by a defect in your particular drive that happened during manufacturing? Lenovo doesn't make their own hard drives; they buy them from hard drive manufacturers just like everyone else does. A traditional hard drive is a mechanical device, and as such the question is ALWAYS when it is going to fail, and not if.

What I would do is leave hard drive protection enabled during your races but lower the sensitivity of it. That way, normal vibrations won't cause it to kick in, but if you hit a major bump or whatever, the APS will kick in and prevent head-to-platter crashes.

If you absolutely cannot have the APS kick in at any point because it disrupts the logging, then the APS is really doing you no good. Might as well buy a computer without it. You might seriously consider, in that case, ponying up for a solid-state drive to replace the hard drive that came with your ThinkPad, and then just turning off the APS altogether.

Another idea would be to hook up a solid-state storage device to the computer externally, like a cheap USB flash "thumb" drive. Log your data to that, and if you need the data to be on the hard drive, copy it over afterward.

$0.02,

-- Nathan

Your case is a perfect reason to try out a solid state drive if you can afford one. But again, we dont get the storage density on SSDs that we get with mechanical magnetic drives today. Something to think about ...

Thank you all for the feedback... I never thought about using the external "thumb" drive... will give that a try for sure.

Does anyone have history/detail on how reliable the solid state drives are?

Thanks again...

you've been using solid state flash in your camera for years It's more reliable than your current setup because of the simple fact that there is no moving parts. Mechanical devices break over time or under stress but there is no mechanics in SSDs. The only thing you really have to worry about is speeds and all the other normal stuff you would with your HDD such as backup.

Hi Turboqueef,

I don't have any experience with solid state drives but from what little I've seen, the good ones are pretty expensive. The "thumb" drive approach sounds interesting, though I don't think a USB connection would allow you the speed you want.

I can think of at least three good alternatives.

The first would be the Thinkpad SATA hard drive bay adapter (40Y8725). Lenovo has it Here.
To my knowledge, a drive in the adapter is not subject to or controlled by the APS HD protection system. If your application was writing to a drive in the adapter it should be uninterrupted, assuming the vibration did not adversely affect the drive itself.

A second alternative would be an express card reader with a fast SD card in it. SIIG makes such a reader like This one. There is at least one review there by a Thinkpad owner who was having success with it.

A third alternative would be an eSATA Expresscard reader like this one from SIIG with a 2.5" SATA drive attached to it in an external case like the IOGear External Enclosure.

The only liability with the first alternative is, if you sold your Thinkpad you would have to sell the drive bay adapter with it as it wouldn't be useful in another make of machine. The other two alternatives would provide you with connectivity solutions that would work with just about any new notebook.

I have tried and work regularly with the first and third alternatives and can say they are both speedy solutions. I have not done any such work under the adverse conditions you mentioned so I can't testify to their workability for your needs. Only you can judge that.

Do stay in touch with this thread and let us know what solution finally works for you. That way, not only your needs but the needs of countless others continue to be served by the Forum.
all the best,
DenTP4rm

What's the laptop mounted on? Limiting the amount of vibration the laptop will experience will greatly, if not completely, limit the amount of vibration the HDD will experience.

Also, T6x's have an internal roll cage that previous T-series TPs lacked which could definitely have an impact on HDD vibration due to the T6x's more solid construction.

Actually, you can get the SLC Sandisk SSD from ebay for around $300, not very expensive if you ask me considering how much your data and your work are worth.

mod edit: removed excessive quoting. -- gator

meekus wrote:What's the laptop mounted on? ...

It sits on the passenger seat. I have considered buying a rigid mount for it but I think it would pick up much more vibration if I mount it to something solid. It does not slide around at all during the runs... the screen rests on the seat back and the laptop body sits where you seat (butt) goes. I strap it in to avoid problems if I make a sudden stop.

DenTP4rm wrote:Hi Turboqueef,

...I can think of at least three good alternatives...

Thanks for the leads Den... rather than using an external drive, I may just turn off the protection for the T60p drive!

The express card or thumb drive seems to be something to try. The only concern is that the program that I use to do the datalogging requires access to the hard drive to operate. The only way around this may be to install this program to the express or thumb drive.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks again for the reply

gator wrote:http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4387

That is the leading edge.. I will wait till the price comes down though.

Thank you...

Great alternative if you can afford it! Do read until the end of the review and notice the heat factor as well. I think a 2nd HD in the drive bay or an external eSATA is a much more realistic option.

Here we go again.. the fourth hard drive has just taken a dump. I am very disappointed with this laptop due to hard drive failures but I still wonder if my drag racing datalogging is causing some of the problem.

I am sending the laptop in to have the drive repaired again and then ... I am going to install a SSD and see what happens.

Turboqueef wrote:Gosh... I am really getting sick of this... laptop..

My second hard drive has taken a dump this weekend. A new one is on the way under warranty.

I am starting to wonder what the problem is.. I use this laptop to data log in my 2005 STi and I am starting to wonder if the somewhat rough service is too much for the T60.

Before the T60, I used a T40 with zero hard drive problems.

I do run the hard drive protection software that came with the T60 but I have to turn it off during 1/4 mile dragstrip passes or else the hard drive stops working and cuts out my datalogging due to the slight vibration.

I would like to know if anyone has experienced similar hard drive failures with their T60p.

Additionally, I would like to know if anyone has a suggestion on a good rough duty laptop that may better serve my needs.

FYI... I do use the laptop for other very high intensity usages such as... editing and rendering high definition videos... maybe this is too much for a laptop???

Thanks for any information and advice.

I wonder if Lenovo engineers strap the Thinkpads into a 1/4 mile drag racer for a few months worth of runs before releasing the design ...

Harryc wrote:I wonder if Lenovo engineers strap the Thinkpads into a 1/4 mile drag racer for a few months worth of runs before releasing the design ...

Ha... probally not ... but they should

Here is what it looks like from inside the cabin:

http://n8rws.com/11%2044%20vlq.wmv (right click and save, 7 meg file)

I think next time you should train the camera on the Thinkpad and then enter the footage into 'The Legends of Thinkpad'.

http://www.pc.ibm.com/ca/thinkpad/commu ... index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLwWxVpXhRA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ENQ1dUavI8

Compared to the "melting" story my 1/4 mile blasts are "smooth sailing"...

Very cool... thanks for the post

Harryc wrote:I think next time you should train the camera on the Thinkpad and then enter the footage into 'The Legends of Thinkpad'.

http://www.pc.ibm.com/ca/thinkpad/commu ... index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLwWxVpXhRA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ENQ1dUavI8

Turboqueef wrote:but I still wonder if my drag racing datalogging is causing some of the problem.

Almost certainly IMO!

We have a reasonably large number of T60 ThinkPads in use with a field work force and have had very few hard drive failures (and I have pretty good idea that they were caused by gross mishandling).

What specific drive model are you using in your T60?

Cheers,

Bill B.

Hi Bill,

All of them have been 100G 7200RPM Hitachi drives

model: hts720010k9sa00

bill bolton wrote:

Turboqueef wrote:but I still wonder if my drag racing datalogging is causing some of the problem.

Almost certainly IMO!

We have a reasonably large number of T60 ThinkPads in use with a field work force and have had very few hard drive failures (and I have pretty good idea that they were caused by gross mishandling).

What specific drive model are you using in your T60?

Cheers,

Bill B.

Turboqueef wrote:Before the T60, I used a T40 with zero hard drive problems.

My guess is that the design of the T6x series might contribute to these problems. Although the hard disk drive is shock protected by rubber rails, it is still plugged directly into the notebook's motherboard. This physical connection is rigid. Vibration is being transferred one to one from the notebook's outer housing to the motherboard and further to the hard disk drive. Another notebook manufacturer (Panasonic) employs a flexible connection between the motherboard and the hard disk drive. This could constitute an improved protection of the hard disk drive against vibration.

TTY wrote:Then, the hard disk drive is left to swing freely in its rubber rails.

You haven't paid much attention to the x6x drive mounting arrangements then!

Turboqueef wrote:All of them have been 100G 7200RPM Hitachi drives

If you fit another mechanical HDD, you might want to try just about any 5400 rpm type instead of a 7200 rpm type.

If you feel you must stay with a 7200 rpm drive, try a Seagate 7200.3 family drive.

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote:You haven't paid much attention to the x6x drive mounting arrangements then!

How are the x6x drive mounting arrangements, then?