Thinkpads Forum

I work primarily with MSWord, Acrobat, Explorer, Firefox.

Does anyone know if there is a difference in quality of text display between the Intel GMA and Nvidia graphics controllers? If yes, which is better for text?

My likely T61 screen choice would be the 15.4" WXGA or WSXGA+.

(My desktop has a not so new Intel 82865G graphics controller, and its text reproduction is excellent so I have had good results with Intel. )

Also, does anyone know if any of these controllers can run the T61 screens in non-native screen resolutions without losing any sharpness? (ie running a WSXGA+ screen at WXGA resolution)

No difference. If any, it's due to the screen itself.

As Pascal_TTH said, there will be no difference with the display quality for text. If that is your only concern, I would recommend that you get the Intel GMA for the longer battery life that it provides.

Also, there is no controller than can run a screen at non-native resolution without losing at least some sharpness. That is due to the nature of an LCD (having a fixed number of pixels).

I forget to answer about the non native resolution. It seems that GeForce and Quadro can handle the scale down better than other GPU. It's a feature from the GPU and it can replace the screen poor scaling (build-in).

My own experience with Intel integrated graphics in desktops and routine applications (office/web) was that they performed miserably. I ended up getting discrete video card in each case (including the 4xx series chipset in my HP X2 5600+ desktop). I've no experience with the X3100 series but the intel 9xx series and the Nvidia 4xx series were simply awful!

I would go with the nVidia regardless of battery consumption.

sktn77a wrote:My own experience with Intel integrated graphics in desktops and routine applications (office/web) was that they performed miserably. I ended up getting discrete video card in each case (including the 4xx series chipset in my HP X2 5600+ desktop). I've no experience with the X3100 series but the intel 9xx series and the Nvidia 4xx series were simply awful!

I would go with the nVidia regardless of battery consumption.

I am rather surprised by this...can you describe the performance problems more thoroughly? I have never had trouble with integrated graphics for office and Internet applications, even on much older PCs.

I agree fuscob, I never have performance issue with integrated graphic chip for office or web use. Last time I run 2D and Office benchmarks, Intel X3100 was outperforming the fireGL T2 128 Mo and the Radeon X300. All those chips worf fine even with Vista Aero Glass.

Slow screen refreshing was the most obvious - almost like being on a 56k modem! And no, it wasn't elsewhere in the setup or the driver. Adding a discrete video card solved the problem immediately. Like I say, this was with the Intel 9xx and nVidia 4xx series integrated graphics; haven't used the X3100 but I would still go with the discrete graphics.

sktn77a wrote:Slow screen refreshing was the most obvious - almost like being on a 56k modem! And no, it wasn't elsewhere in the setup or the driver. Adding a discrete video card solved the problem immediately. Like I say, this was with the Intel 9xx and nVidia 4xx series integrated graphics; haven't used the X3100 but I would still go with the discrete graphics.

I don't trust such an unrealistic answer. In our office, we have about 100 desktops with GMA, any issue during office and internet use. Here, no one blame Thinkpad with GMA. I have a *light* desktop with GMA 950 driving a 1680x1050 22" screen (even a 2407WFP WUXGA), there is any speed problem even with more then 10 applications (outlook, paint shop pro 9, word, excel, ftp, acrobat reader, some IE windows, powerpoint). Slow refresh when scrolling is typically a driver issue. Remove the graphic driver from any GPU, it will be [censored] slow to refresh.

If GMA were so slow even to slow for surf/office use, Internet would be full of people complaining about. If you advise a Quadro NVS 140 for typing, what is the requirement for more high end applications ? Choosing a Quadro will short battery life, increasethe heat, thus the fan activity and the noise.

Pascal_TTH wrote:I don't trust such an unrealistic answer. In our office, we have about 100 desktops with GMA, any issue during office and internet use. Here, no one blame Thinkpad with GMA. I have a *light* desktop with GMA 950 driving a 1680x1050 22" screen (even a 2407WFP WUXGA), there is any speed problem even with more then 10 applications (outlook, paint shop pro 9, word, excel, ftp, acrobat reader, some IE windows, powerpoint).

Agreed. At my company, we have many people with older desktops (Dell GX260, GX270, GX620) with GMA graphics (not even X3xxx, usually 8xx or 9xx) and 22" 1680x1050 monitors with zero complaints. I have used many such systems personally and never noticed a problem.

We have both at our company and for the applications the original poster indicated, there is no difference in display quality or speed. Unless you are running 3D graphics, you are better off with integrated graphics, as it will yield much better battery life, and less heat and fan noise.

G

Pascal_TTH wrote:

sktn77a wrote:Slow screen refreshing was the most obvious - almost like being on a 56k modem! And no, it wasn't elsewhere in the setup or the driver. Adding a discrete video card solved the problem immediately. Like I say, this was with the Intel 9xx and nVidia 4xx series integrated graphics; haven't used the X3100 but I would still go with the discrete graphics.

I don't trust such an unrealistic answer. In our office, we have about 100 desktops with GMA, any issue during office and internet use. Here, no one blame Thinkpad with GMA. I have a *light* desktop with GMA 950 driving a 1680x1050 22" screen (even a 2407WFP WUXGA), there is any speed problem even with more then 10 applications (outlook, paint shop pro 9, word, excel, ftp, acrobat reader, some IE windows, powerpoint). Slow refresh when scrolling is typically a driver issue. Remove the graphic driver from any GPU, it will be [censored] slow to refresh.

If GMA were so slow even to slow for surf/office use, Internet would be full of people complaining about. If you advise a Quadro NVS 140 for typing, what is the requirement for more high end applications ? Choosing a Quadro will short battery life, increasethe heat, thus the fan activity and the noise.

Dear Pascal,
I am following this thread because I am just about to decide on a new Thinkpad with either NVS 140M or the Intel X3100. From another thinkpad forum I got benchmark results that showed that the X3100 is almost equivalent to a Radeon 9000 which is nice. However the Quadro would allow me to maybe try a trip in Google 3D.
I am very concerned about noise and the Thinkpad should be dead silent when I work on Word or Powerpoint, as it is my T40p at the moment. That thing is dead silent most time.

I saw in your signature that you have exactly the model I am thinking about buying. the T61 14" WXGA+ Quadro.
Can you give me some hints about how silent it is in Office and Firefox? Constant fan or dead silent?
I appreciate your help, because I could not find this model in a store.

Pascal_TTH wrote: I don't trust such an unrealistic answer. In our office, we have about 100 desktops with GMA, any issue during office and internet use. Here, no one blame Thinkpad with GMA. I have a *light* desktop with GMA 950 driving a 1680x1050 22" screen (even a 2407WFP WUXGA), there is any speed problem even with more then 10 applications (outlook, paint shop pro 9, word, excel, ftp, acrobat reader, some IE windows, powerpoint). Slow refresh when scrolling is typically a driver issue. Remove the graphic driver from any GPU, it will be [censored] slow to refresh.

Read my post again - this was not a driver issue. But you're welcome to your own opinion.

beeblebrox wrote: Dear Pascal,
...

I am very concerned about noise and the Thinkpad should be dead silent when I work on Word or Powerpoint, as it is my T40p at the moment. That thing is dead silent most time.

I saw in your signature that you have exactly the model I am thinking about buying. the T61 14" WXGA+ Quadro.
Can you give me some hints about how silent it is in Office and Firefox? Constant fan or dead silent?
I appreciate your help, because I could not find this model in a store.

Hi beeblebrox,

Before go foward, I can tell you that the fan did not run all the time during office use. BUT, it can change according background running applications and OS load. While using Windows Vista with Aero Glass, the fan runs longer and more often than when using Windows XP. The fan noise in not very lound. It's lower than the Hitachi hard (5400 rpm) drive witch came with the T61. But it's lounder then my Seagate 7200.2.

If you are common with software like RivaTuner, RM clock and TPfancontrol, you can have a nearly fanless system. I use RM Clock to set the VID at 0,95 v at lower CPU speed and 1,05v at max speed. This lower then CPU temp by about 12°C in heavy load. Even when doing basic application, Quadro spinup to 3D freq. I still don't know why but any monitoring application show it. So I set a profile with same clock speed in 2D mode and 3D mode. This helps to keep the GPu cool. I also use TPfancontrol to choose the fan active temp and the fan stop temp.

Quadro NVS 140m out perform any integrated device. But it also take much more power. T61 comsuption is from 16 to 26 watts according to Lenovo power mizer. A friend tells me his T61 GMA is about 13 to 20 watts. I forget to ask him about fan...

Quadro 570M > Intel X3100.

I have an X3100 in my T61 and a Radeon 9000 series in my desktop. Both can do just about anything 2D without any perceptible slowdown. My T61 is also fast enough to use google earth (3D). I'm not playing any games, so I have not seen any performance bottleneck with either graphics card.

Volker wrote:I have an X3100 in my T61 and a Radeon 9000 series in my desktop. Both can do just about anything 2D without any perceptible slowdown. My T61 is also fast enough to use google earth (3D). I'm not playing any games, so I have not seen any performance bottleneck with either graphics card.

I agree. Does the fan run often with GMA on T61 ?

Makikun wrote:Quadro 570M > Intel X3100.

Certainly the NVidia will have better performance than the Intel, but you should also consider other factors (namely price vs. performance and battery life). Also remember that the OP listed his primary applications as Word, Acrobat, Explorer, and Firefox, none of which are graphically demanding in the least.

Pascal_TTH wrote:Does the fan run often with GMA on T61 ?

Hard to say. What i hear is probably the hard drive, the fan might be part of the noise, though. The hard drive is a Hitachi 160 GB 5400 RPM model, the manufacturer specifies these as emitting 2.5 Bels(A) in idle mode. The noise coming from the computer varies over time, so this might be the fan changing speeds. The fan doesn't seem to be significantly louder than the hard drive. Under light workload, there is no or maybe minimal air flow leaving the fan louvres.