Thinkpads Forum

Hey all,

I've been researching the T61p with mixed results. I have a T42p and would prefer another thinkpad, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. Most people compliment the build, but I've heard a lot of negativity about the screen quality--light leakage, screen angle, brightness. Is it really that bad? I have been satisfied with the T42p LCD (1600x1200). I'm concerned because I do a fair amount of photography work. What do you think?

Thanks!
-Eric

The UXGA is a Flexview and no T61p display will be able to match that. Given that you do a fair bit of photography work, I'd be particularly concerned about the T61p's quality. The WUXGA does seem to be better than the others though.

If you're considering an upgrade and can't stand the T61p's display, you might want to take a look at a T60p for which Flexview is an option.

If you can go to see a T61 system then you can see for yourself, since opinions on what count as a "good" display obviously vary from individual to individual, but after a Flexview, TN displays do seem like a significant step down.

After a month having my T61, I'm (for now), somewhat satisfied with all the things that kinna hurt my feeling and eyes.

System is running as advertised period. Meaning the T61 still carries some of the old IBM high quality standard

As for the screen, well one thing that still bugs me is that native resolution thingi. No matter what I do, in the end I have to go back to the native resolution which is really bad. I did increased the fonts to make it better for my eyes, but for most websites, all of the formatting is just down the drain cluttered.

carves wrote:I did increased the fonts to make it better for my eyes, but for most websites, all of the formatting is just down the drain cluttered.

You might try installing the newly-released Firefox 3, which has a new whole-page scaling/zoom option (you can also do font-only "zoom," but the new whole-page one is on by default). It will keep the formatting of the pages intact. As far as I know, it is the only web browser released to have this option/feature. Obviously depending on how much bigger you want things, you might find some of the bitmaps a little blocky-looking, but it seems to do a decent job of scaling them up.

-- Nathan

T61p is a fine machine when it comes to overall build quality. LCDs leave a lot to be desired, though. Truth be told, WUXGA is the least despicable out of all IMHO.

No LCD of today will match your IPS. If I were in your line of business, I'd buy a T60p with UXGA and upgrade the CPU to C2D.

My $0.02 only...

esorns wrote:Hey all,

I've been researching the T61p with mixed results. I have a T42p and would prefer another thinkpad, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. Most people compliment the build, but I've heard a lot of negativity about the screen quality--light leakage, screen angle, brightness. Is it really that bad? I have been satisfied with the T42p LCD (1600x1200). I'm concerned because I do a fair amount of photography work. What do you think?

Thanks!
-Eric

If you do photography work, you'll not be happy with the TN panels you'll find in the T61's. As far as I know, you don't get anything else than TN LCD technology on the T61, regardless if the LCD is manufactured by Samsung, LG, or someone else.

Try finding a T60 with IPS panel instead or be prepared to use an external monitor most of the time for doing graphics work.

Right now, I'm typing on a T61p with a WUXGA screen and it is the best and brightest screen I've ever used. I had been using a T43p with a new IDTech Flexview screen and the T61p is much better - brighter, larger viewing angle, etc. I had intended to sell the T61p after I got it working (I bought it complete, but locked with a password) As soon as I got it working and saw the screen, I listed my T43p for sale.

richk wrote:Right now, I'm typing on a T61p with a WUXGA screen and it is the best and brightest screen I've ever used. I had been using a T43p with a new IDTech Flexview screen and the T61p is much better - brighter, larger viewing angle, etc. I had intended to sell the T61p after I got it working (I bought it complete, but locked with a password) As soon as I got it working and saw the screen, I listed my T43p for sale.

I'm in the same boat. I got my T61p as a replacement for a stolen T42, which had a Flexview screen, and this WUXGA is much better. Viewing angles aren't as quite as good, but color reproduction, clarity and brightness are no contest.

ajkula66 wrote:T61p is a fine machine when it comes to overall build quality. LCDs leave a lot to be desired, though. Truth be told, WUXGA is the least despicable out of all IMHO.

No LCD of today will match your IPS. If I were in your line of business, I'd buy a T60p with UXGA and upgrade the CPU to C2D.

My $0.02 only...

To be exact, LG WUXGA screen is the least despicable. The Samsung WUXGA screen "features" horrible backlight bleed, horrible viewing angle (about 40 degrees up/down/left/right)
But you don't really know which screen you get until you open it up. It's a 50% chance gamble.

NathanA wrote: You might try installing the newly-released Firefox 3, which has a new whole-page scaling/zoom option (you can also do font-only "zoom," but the new whole-page one is on by default). It will keep the formatting of the pages intact. As far as I know, it is the only web browser released to have this option/feature.

Nathan, Opera has had this for ages now ...

Thanks...I wondered how much screen technology has improved since 2004, when i got my T42p. Even if the WUXGA T61p screen isn't great, am I right in saying it's probably better than the 4-year-old UXGA T42p?

esorns wrote:Thanks...I wondered how much screen technology has improved since 2004, when i got my T42p. Even if the WUXGA T61p screen isn't great, am I right in saying it's probably better than the 4-year-old UXGA T42p?

Don't count on it. My T61p which I bought about two weeks ago and which was manufactured in 03/08 has a Samsung WSXGA+ LCD which was manufactured in 2005.

esorns wrote:Thanks...I wondered how much screen technology has improved since 2004, when i got my T42p. Even if the WUXGA T61p screen isn't great, am I right in saying it's probably better than the 4-year-old UXGA T42p?

I'm not usually the one to say that something is directly bad, since it is highly subjective what one is looking for in an LCD. But in this case, i'd say - based on only one WSXGA+ T61p though - it's rightout just horrible.
How anyone could ever think it is even remotely close to the performance of a flexview is beyond me. I couldn't bring myself to ask who the manufacturer of the said T61p LCD was, but it was just terrible. As far as i know, the owner has owned it for about 8-9 months or thereabouts.
TN doesn't really equal bad quality always - it is just the ones Lenovo are using which leaves a lot to be desired. It goes to show how much they really are paying for these LCDs in comparison to say, Apple. To compare, read any review with a Macbook or Macbook pro and it will "jump" all over the T61p LCDs in viewing angles, contrast and backlight uniformity.
The last tested CCFL MBP variant was at above 650:1 i believe for the 15.4, while the LED variant is beyond 1300:1.
Now come on Lenovo!
I really appreciate Mark's (from Lenovo - forgot his Last name) testings and comparisons between LG and Samsung - but why don't he/they realize that the result just isn't good - i.e. setup a MBP next to them and they'll quickly see the short-comings...

It's really sad to think about that i have switched between flexview panels because of accumulations of a few tiny dust specs. Putting it into perspective it's absolutely no issue compared to backlight bleed, bad viewing angles or a bad color space that others are complaining about with T61/ps. I need to get down to earth much more i think - so you should probably take what i wrote before with a grain of salt.

gator wrote:

NathanA wrote:As far as I know, it is the only web browser released to have this option/feature.

Nathan, Opera has had this for ages now ...

Then I stand corrected. Thanks!

-- Nathan

Troels wrote:It goes to show how much they really are paying for these LCDs in comparison to say, Apple. To compare, read any review with a Macbook or Macbook pro and it will "jump" all over the T61p LCDs in viewing angles, contrast and backlight uniformity. The last tested CCFL MBP variant was at above 650:1 i believe for the 15.4, while the LED variant is beyond 1300:1.

This is interesting...in your experience, would you say that Macbook/Pro displays are equally as good in their glossy and matte variants? Although I would doubt the veracity of such a statement, I could easily envision an objection by Lenovo spokespeople claiming that, well, "we could have put glossy TN displays on our products, and then they would be on par with other notebook manufacturers' products, but you guys all said you'd rather stick with matte."

In the reading that I've been doing on various Mac forums, my impression is that the Mac world right now is undergoing a similar display "revolt" by their customers in the iMac product line. Apparently, the older "white plastic" iMac models were using S-IPS displays (same panels as in the Apple Cinema displays), while at the very least the smaller aluminum iMacs are now shipping with TN displays instead. And people are noticing the difference, despite the fact that both the past S-IPS and the new TN displays were both behind a glossy surface.

-- Nathan

I don't know if they're equally good. I've never seen either in real life (i think). I'm just quoting (and forgetting to put a source) http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Apple ... 832.0.html which has a matte 15.4" WXGA+ (hmm) 1441:1 LCD
Here was the previous LED matte Santa Rosa MBP:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Apple ... 038.0.html, which showed a max of 578:1 - but on the other hand is horribly non-uniformly lit it seems.
The matte MBA is 722:1 according to:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Apple ... 952.0.html
I can't find the non-LED tests of the MBP, perhaps it was on NBR or notebookjournal instead, but they're lost in between all the search results.
I don't think that matte vs. glossy has anything to do with contrast, at least not when measuring in a dark room as it is is done. The CR of the T61p is also very good, it's just that there is so much else to look into - mostly the thing that the CR at the lower part of the LCD is very low due to light leakage, and also that the viewing angles leaves something to be desired compared to Apples LCDs.

Hehe... actually Idtech once made the 20" IPS WSXGA+ panels that came with Apple Cinema 20" displays. Some can still be found, e.g.

We're probably all just experiencing the fact that we don't want to pay what it costs to get what we want, and Lenovo and Apple are seeking a broader market (i.e. lower the prices, and sacrifice the LCD)

Guys not really sure whats the deal with the screens.... I got my t61p with its 15.4 thingie... The viewing angle angle is fine... brighness is fine... not really sure where the problem should be...

ldr wrote:Guys not really sure whats the deal with the screens.... I got my t61p with its 15.4 thingie... The viewing angle angle is fine... brighness is fine... not really sure where the problem should be...

The LG WUXGA doesn't seem to be so bad.

Also, I'd think the difference would feel more jarring if one was to move from a Flexview to a TN-panel.

You also have to keep in mind that one screen might be better than the other one but this only if you compare them side by side. If you really get one of those screens you will get used to it no matter which angle or brightness... so chosing a notebook depending on the screen should not be the main priority as it seems here in this thread....

Just my opinion of course

AvalonXIII wrote:

ajkula66 wrote:To be exact, LG WUXGA screen is the least despicable. The Samsung WUXGA screen "features" horrible backlight bleed, horrible viewing angle (about 40 degrees up/down/left/right)
But you don't really know which screen you get until you open it up. It's a 50% chance gamble.

How can you determine if you have the LG or the SamSung WUXGA display? Mine seems to be OK.... when it had Vista Business on it the sides of the screen seemed to be dark... expecially the right side, but maybe that was the Vista desktop style since after I "downgraded" as Lenovo puts it to XP the screen seems uniformly bright across the whole display.

What I got seems OK to me except at 1920 X 1280 the icons and fonts are too small to be useable, so I changed it to 1280 X 1024.

dave wrote: ...
How can you determine if you have the LG or the SamSung WUXGA display? Mine seems to be OK.... when it had Vista Business on it the sides of the screen seemed to be dark... expecially the right side, but maybe that was the Vista desktop style since after I "downgraded" as Lenovo puts it to XP the screen seems uniformly bright across the whole display.

What I got seems OK to me except at 1920 X 1280 the icons and fonts are too small to be useable, so I changed it to 1280 X 1024.

Go here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... -WARNTY#sw

type in your Thinkpad's type and as serial number (found at the bottom of your machine). Click on continue.

On the next page, click on "View parts lookup results for this system".
This shows you the parts the machine shipped with originally. Look for something that says something like "15.4 inch LCD" or so.
Locate the FRU:
42T0408 means Samsung
42T0361 means LG

I tried looking up my T61p. I can't figure out which screen mine is. It's neither the Samsung nor LG FRU. my screen FRU is 42T0329

dave wrote:What I got seems OK to me except at 1920 X 1280 the icons and fonts are too small to be useable, so I changed it to 1280 X 1024.

1280x1024? not native resolution and not even the same aspect ratio. just change font DPI from 96 to 120 and you'll get much better results

lol... it says here:

42W2143 - 44M4361 - NOT AVAILABLE - NO

It seems "not available" is not serviceable with me.... too bad

I have 42T0408 btw. (Samsung) but I really cant see any of the problems you are talking about. Maybe I am already blind.

ldr wrote:lol... it says here:

42W2143 - 44M4361 - NOT AVAILABLE - NO

It seems "not available" is not serviceable with me.... too bad

I have 42T0408 btw. (Samsung) but I really cant see any of the problems you are talking about. Maybe I am already blind.

Don't worry. I have a T61p with the Samsung WUXGA screen since last week and do not see any problems with it either .

Hi! I don't have a lot to add here, but i'd like to second the opinion that the wuxga screen is at least decent. I finally decided to retire my 3,5 years old t42p with flexview uxga screen and got a new wuxga t61p, it seems to be a LG/Philips panel.

I do a bit of photo work as well, and the wuxga calibrated quite nicely with a coloreyes display pro i've been using for 3 years now. I would not use it uncalibrated though, compared to d65 color temp i've been used to the screen is pretty blue without calibration. I have always avoided serious photo work with a laptop when it comes to accurate color even with the IPS panel.

Compared to the flexview the viewing angles of course suck, so screen gamma is very dependant on the vieving angle, even to the point that on a grey backround top of the screen is a bit darker and bottom is lighter.

Small text is not an issue for me, i chose between 14.1 and 15,4 based on the desktop space, although the smaller form factor of the 14.1 was very tempting. The backlight on my screen is more even than what i had on my t42p. Also, no dead pixels. The new screen is also a lot brighter than the flexview, 132 cd/m2 is four clicks down from max brightness, even that's a bit too much compared to prints, but that's what i calibrated with for now..

I finally decided not to wait for new led backlit panels or whatever there might be in the next generation tp's. Take any "quality" laptop like macbook pro and the screen will suck compared to flexview panel, the average demand of the market seems to have resulted in good panels disappearing from high-end laptops, my pessimistic guess is that the trend has come to stay.

Hope this helps someone, i tried to read all i could find about the subject myself before i finally decided to get the t61p.. In my opinion it's the best compromise you can get if you're after a high performance laptop in summer 2008.. I've yet to see how the screen and the computer will feel in a long run, so far it's promising but at the same time i have a feeling i won't be using this for 3,5 years like my old t42p..

I have been using Thinkpads for years now. It was the standard laptop brand for a company I worked for back in the late 90's. We used T20's, T21's, X20's and X21's. I liked them so much that I got a T21 for personal use at home. Since, I have also owned a T22 (still do) and a T30. And just recently I purchased a T61. So now I have 3 T-series Thinkpads.

My review of the Lenovo T61

I admit I was pretty apprehensive about buying the new T61, especially knowing that IBM no longer makes the Thinkpad series. This also comes at a time when there's a lot of poor quality goods coming from China, and a lot of China-bashing etc. However, I figured that if I really hate the T61 or it didn't live up to my expectations, I could just sell it.

I bought a T61 with with the following specs.
-15.4" wide screen display
-Intel X3100 GPU
-2.4Ghz T8300
-3 GB RAM memory
-100GB 7200rpm HDD
-DVD/CDRW combo drive
- and the usual stuff that Thinkpads come with

When I unpacked it, my first impression was "[censored] its BIG! I wonder if they'd mistaken my order for a Z61. " But right on the palm rest, it read "T61". Despite its size, it was noticeably lighter than my T30 and about as light as my T22 (this is purely from feeling as opposed to actually weighing it.)

The second thing I noticed was the conspicuously missing IBM logo, that was present even on the T60 models. Intead there's just a very subtle Lenovo logo as if it Lenovo was to hestitant in putting their name on it. This kind of made me apprehensive about the quality of the new T-Series.

After loading Vista Utimate and all of the necessary drivers and what nots to get it running (which all took less than an hour),
I played around with it for a while and came up my goods and bads list.

Good:
-Keyboard is definately better. lighter touch better response.
-I like the speaker location now as opposed to having it under he keyboard like the T30 and T21's.
-Display is brighter and easier on the eyes.
-Price was good...just over $800 shipped brand new with all of the items listed above. OS was self-supplied so I ordered it with Linux installed.
-Slimmer, lighter

Bad:
-The eject button the DVD drive sits flush with the casing which makes me have to actually look for it know. On the older models, the button was raised so, I was able to eject the DVD's just on touch.
-The bezel on the side of the keyboard is too wide and makes it look uglier.
-no more s-video port, but then again I rarely used it

Overall, I think that Lenovo did a good job with the T61. There is no real noticeable difference in quality from the IBM days. As a matter of fact, I think they managed to improve a lot of things.

ps- admins, I didn't know that "d-a-m-n" was considered an "Expletive" term

jjll wrote:the average demand of the market seems to have resulted in good panels disappearing from high-end laptops, my pessimistic guess is that the trend has come to stay.

Yes I think so too but frankly speaking thats ok with me. I do some 3D S. Max animations and Phtoshop but other factors beside the actual screen resolution were never of concern as long as I could see. And I guess I am not the only one who thinks like that. But then again: I am not a pro. But a pro would possibly not purchase a Notebook for 3D animations....

btw... I was wondering about the dam* word too before

Estrogen Kid wrote:I tried looking up my T61p. I can't figure out which screen mine is. It's neither the Samsung nor LG FRU. my screen FRU is 42T0329

The FRU that is given before your post is for WUXGA screen in t61p. If you type in your FRU into the search box in Lenovo website, it says that your screen is a Samsung WSXGA+ screen.

ldr wrote: btw... I was wondering about the dam* word too before

Mod Edit - The word filter is turned on for a reason on the forum. Don't mess with it. - Harryc

the word "dam*" is used in PG rated movies and prime time television. Are you saying that too we're below the maturity line to use that word? Its not even an offensive word