Thinkpads Forum

I read some other topics similar to this one, but still not really the same questions. So i hope someone have some experience with the Thinkpad models, CPUs i consider to buy. I'm really looking for some tips from users with real experience or facts related to the models/CPUs and no guessing.

I'm thinking about buying a new Thinkpad T series and if i look at the spec i would choose the T61p with a 2.60GHz T9500 CPU. There is a couple of things i worry about though and it's the heat/noise. As far as i understand the T9300 and T9500 have a lower voltage compared to the T7x00 and that way they should be a bit cooler, right? Does anyone have any real experience with that computer/CPU?
It's hard to say what is noisy and what is not since some people might find a Thinkpad to be very noisy while others find the same computer to be pretty silent. I guess i'm one of the guys that find a lot of laptops to be very noisy and hate it. I had several Thinkpads and i guess the worst one is the T43p which is very noisy and warm. Basically the T43p i find to be a useless piece of junk because of the heat/noise. I also had a T60p that i found to be better, but still not good enough. As far as i understand the T61p 2.6GHz T9500 should be better (less heat/noise), but can anyone confirm this? How about the 2.50GHz T9300 compared to the 2.60GHz T9500? How about the nVIDIA.....is the nVIDIA cooler the ATI? Is there any difference between nVIDIA Quadro FX 570M and Quadro NVS 140M....i'm thinking about heat and know the specs.

I also been looking at a T61 since i think i prefer the native resolution to be 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200 so i also consider a T61 with the 2.50GHz T9300. I couldn't find any T61p with 1680x1050. Anyone have any idea how this one will perform compared to the T61p? How about heat/noise? I read that the battery last pretty much longer as well on this model which is assume is because of the LCD. I know this model have another nVIDIA graphics adapter.
Is the pulsing fan still a issue with the T61/T61p?

Basically i want the best/fastest T61/T61p available, but if very noisy i'll rather buy another model or another brand because i don't want another uselss and noisy computer like the T43p. Other requirements is a 7200 RPM HDD which is 160gb or more, 15.4" LCD with the native resolution 1680x1050 (or 1920x1200), Windows Vista Business or Ultimate, nVIDIA (no more Ati for me unless someone have a very good reason to choose ATI) and long battery life would be nice. Other requirements would be WLAN a/b/g/n, dual layer DVD burner, bluetooth and stuff like that, but i presume any model in this price range should have that. Some might say that the T9500 is not worth the price compared to T9300, but i don't care about the price. I'm looking for performance, but i would still like a silent computer and a battery that last as long as possible. I will be using a 9 cell battery so if the model i buy have another battery it will be replaced in any case.

Also if anyone have any strong opinions about the LCD please let me know, but lower resoluion then 1680x1050 is not really an option. The only thing i liked about the T43p is the 1600x1200 IPS LCD, but unless i'm wrong i cannot get a Thinkpad with a 15.4" LCD with IPS which is a shame.

I been using TP fancontrol utility and nhc, but now i want a computer where i don't have to do a lot of tweaks to make it silent.

Thanks in advance....

your post has lots of contradictions in there as you can't get the latest performance and looong battery life at the sametime.

For your CPU choices, 100mhz wont make much of a difference that you'll notice so might as well get the lower one if the other is a lot more expensive. The T61 series is pretty quiet but with such a high powered CPU you wont have a quiet system or with less heat. The newer Penryn CPUs do run cooler but not that much cooler.

There is no ATI option in the T61 series so it's either nVidia or Intel. The 570 is a bit faster than the 140 as you could imagine. They both generate significant heat and use lots of power. By comparison when you look at same machines with the nVidia vs Intel you get about 1hr battery life difference on the lower batteries. Once you move up to the 9 cell it's a difference of 3hrs or so.

As for heat - The T43 2.0Ghz idle temp in one setting was 57C while the T61 is 42. After a loaded test the T43 was 68C while the T61 was 50C.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsid=3708

So compared to the T43 they are much cooler but remember the nVidia card negates some of those temps.

SHoTTa35 wrote:your post has lots of contradictions in there as you can't get the latest performance and looong battery life at the sametime.

Yes i know. Basically i want it all, but that's a bit hard. As i said i would like long battery life, but i'm actually looking for a good combination. I don't really need 6-7 hours and 4 hours is good enough. Maybe i can live with 3.5 as well, but lower then 3 hours then i might prefer another model that use less power. Unless i'm wrong higher resolution drain a lot of power so high resolution panels might be a bad idea if the battery life is very important?

SHoTTa35 wrote:For your CPU choices, 100mhz wont make much of a difference that you'll notice so might as well get the lower one if the other is a lot more expensive.

I agree that 100MHz doesn't make a lot difference when talking about the performance, but as i said i don't care about the price. I'm really more interested in if that extra 100MHz cause a lot of heat, drain the battery much faster and stuff like that. If it doesn't have a lot of negative effects then i have no problem with the price whatever that might be. In theory a faster CPU use more battery and cause more heat, but i was looking for more real facts.

SHoTTa35 wrote:The T61 series is pretty quiet but with such a high powered CPU you wont have a quiet system or with less heat. The newer Penryn CPUs do run cooler but not that much cooler.

High performance and no heat is a combination that doesn't really match, but still i seen models from HP that is pretty quiet even if good performance/pretty high spec. The heat might not be what worry me most, but the noise. If pretty warm, but still quiet then it's fine, but usually heat means noise as well.....at least with some thinkpad models.

SHoTTa35 wrote:There is no ATI option in the T61 series so it's either nVidia or Intel. The 570 is a bit faster than the 140 as you could imagine. They both generate significant heat and use lots of power. By comparison when you look at same machines with the nVidia vs Intel you get about 1hr battery life difference on the lower batteries. Once you move up to the 9 cell it's a difference of 3hrs or so.

I assume the Intel run cooler as well then? Maybe the Intel could be an options if it's still has a decent performance.

SHoTTa35 wrote:As for heat - The T43 2.0Ghz idle temp in one setting was 57C while the T61 is 42. After a loaded test the T43 was 68C while the T61 was 50C.

I had a T43p 2.4GHz and when the temp of the GPU went up it never really managed to cool down the GPU again so it would stay somewhere above 60C. The CPU could go as high as 85-90C in seconds when working hard and then the GPU temp went up as well. I would have to leave the computer idle for ages to make the GPU cool down to 60C again. Also using the T43p the fan where really noisy and never really slowed down again after the fan speed increased.

SHoTTa35 wrote: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsid=3708

So compared to the T43 they are much cooler but remember the nVidia card negates some of those temps.

I checked out the link, but couldn't really find much about the T9300 and T9500.

Wiz wrote:High performance and no heat is a combination that doesn't really match, but still i seen models from HP that is pretty quiet even if good performance/pretty high spec. The heat might not be what worry me most, but the noise. If pretty warm, but still quiet then it's fine, but usually heat means noise as well.....at least with some thinkpad models.

think of it this way: would you rather have a hot but silent system that dies prematurely due to the heat or a cool but loud system that lasts a long time but the noise is annoying? you have to make a tradeoff (I prefer the system that will survive in the long run... that's just me).

Wiz wrote: I assume the Intel run cooler as well then? Maybe the Intel could be an options if it's still has a decent performance.

Intel X3100 integrated can run Windows Aero, some old games, and that's about it. Don't expect it to perform well, it's designed with manufacturing costs and low power drain in mind.

If you're going the widescreen route, take WUXGA. I've had both WSXGA+ and WUXGA and the latter is much nicer.

If the heat is your concern, forget discrete GPUs altogether. My (recently sold) T61p with 7500 CPU was quite hot, and mostly because of GPU, not CPU.

Lot of issues with Vista/nVidia drivers combination. If I had the choice I'd go with ATi any day of the week.

My experiences only.

Estrogen Kid wrote:think of it this way: would you rather have a hot but silent system that dies prematurely due to the heat or a cool but loud system that lasts a long time but the noise is annoying? you have to make a tradeoff (I prefer the system that will survive in the long run... that's just me).

Of course i don't want a system that dies because of the heat, but that's not really an option. Some laptop models get warmer then other and some is more noisy then others. It shouldn't be necessary with a very noisy fan because the temp reach 50C like the T43p. Like a lot of other that been using tools like Thinkpad fancontrol utililty i prefer a bit more heat to keep the laptop a bit more silent....so far i have not read about a lot of issues where that killed their laptop.

Estrogen Kid wrote:Intel X3100 integrated can run Windows Aero, some old games, and that's about it. Don't expect it to perform well, it's designed with manufacturing costs and low power drain in mind.

Well in that case i guess it's not an option with the Intel graphics adapter after all:)

ajkula66 wrote:If you're going the widescreen route, take WUXGA. I've had both WSXGA+ and WUXGA and the latter is much nicer.

I been using a WSXGA+ and thought it was pretty ok, but i never used the WUXGA. I'm just a bit worried that the WUXGA is a bit to small.

ajkula66 wrote:If the heat is your concern, forget discrete GPUs altogether. My (recently sold) T61p with 7500 CPU was quite hot, and mostly because of GPU, not CPU.
Lot of issues with Vista/nVidia drivers combination. If I had the choice I'd go with ATi any day of the week.

That's the same thing i seen with the Thinkpad models i used is that the GPU is the problem and not the CPU when talking about heat. I read that nVIDIA had several problems with the Vista drivers some time ago, but i thought they solved the problems by now. I never been really happy with ATI because it gets really hot and also had some stability issues using Vista. Maybe ATI isn't that bad, but as far as i understand ATI is no longer a option in the T61 anyway.
I also read another thread about nVIDIA vs Intel and some people claim the performance of the Intel isn't that bad so maybe that could be a good option. I don't use the laptop for games anyway.

if you aren't gaming or doing any CAD work then definitely get the Intel. You'll get a cooler running system that lasts longer also so it's a win win.

I think WSXGA+ is perfectly fine (for me) as i'm using a SXGA+ now anyways. The extra pixels to the side would only be a + (pun intended).

SHoTTa35 wrote:if you aren't gaming or doing any CAD work then definitely get the Intel. You'll get a cooler running system that lasts longer also so it's a win win.
...

Would you mind elaborating on how much longer the system will last?

basketb wrote:

SHoTTa35 wrote:if you aren't gaming or doing any CAD work then definitely get the Intel. You'll get a cooler running system that lasts longer also so it's a win win.
...

Would you mind elaborating on how much longer the system will last?

No question that SHoTTa35's quote is accurate. It is merely a general assertion based upon simple logic. I can assure you that the Integrated runs cooler as i have had the chance to work with both integrated (ours) and non integrated model. Less heat usually = longer life span. Simple logic.

Thanks for all the replies. Seems like the Intel graphics adapter might be the better choice for me. If i want to play games i will use my desktop computer. I use the laptop for office applications that doesn't require a lot so the graphics adapter isn't that important. I do have some applications like Visual Studio that compile much faster on a fast computer compared to a slow one so a pretty fast CPU is kind of important to me. I guess T61 models with 1680x1050 and the intel adapter exist, but i don't think i can get 1920x1200 with the intel graphics adapter.

How about the LCD panels. I used to have a IPS LCD which i believe is not available for the 15.4" models. I read that several people complain about the quality of the LCD for T61....is it really that bad? Is the WUXGA using a lot more power then the WSXGA+ so there is a big difference how long the battery last?

EAkamai wrote:

basketb wrote: Would you mind elaborating on how much longer the system will last?

No question that SHoTTa35's quote is accurate. It is merely a general assertion based upon simple logic. I can assure you that the Integrated runs cooler as i have had the chance to work with both integrated (ours) and non integrated model. Less heat usually = longer life span. Simple logic.

I didn't doubt that the integrated graphics runs cooler. I just wanted to know how much longer such a system lasts compared to one with dedicated graphics (and no, restating platitudes doesn't really answer that question).
I just bought a T61p - do I need to panic that it will stop working next week? If it lasts eight years and a comparable one with integrated graphics would last 80 years, that would be fine since I doubt I'll use it for more than approx. five years.

Wiz wrote: ...
How about the LCD panels. I used to have a IPS LCD which i believe is not available for the 15.4" models. I read that several people complain about the quality of the LCD for T61....is it really that bad?
...

This is a highly subjective topic and I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions. All I can say is that since three days I'm using a WUXGA T61p that has replaced a five year old A31p (with 15" UXGA IPS display) and
a) the WUXGA is not worse than the now five year old IPS. It's actually better.
b) the IPS may have been (much) better five years ago but that is so long ago, I do not really remember.
c) my WUXGA is a Samsung that seems to get much more flak than the LG model around here but I have not had/seen any problems with it so far in everyday usage.

Since they didn't have all the models on stock i ended up with this one:

T61p (6460-EEG)
T9300(2.5GHz), 2GB RAM, 250GB 5400rpm HD, 15.4in 1920x1200 LCD, 256MB nVIDIA Quadro FX 570M, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11agn, Bluetooth, Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 6c Li-Ion, WinXP Pro

Then i added an additional 2gb ram so i have a total of 4gb, bought a 9c Li-Ion battery and did a clean install with Windows Vista. I'm also thinking about replacing the hdd with a 200gb 7200rpm FDE disk. I find the 250gb 5400rpm disk to be fast enough, but need encryption and then i won't need the software i currently use for disk encryption anymore.

I was a bit worried about the heat/noise, but it's very quiet and pretty cool as well. This is the first Thinkpad i had for a long time where i don't have to use NHC, Thinkpad Fancontrol utility or some other hack to make it quiet/bearable. Even when working hard it's pretty silent. This one is less noisy when working hard compared to my previous Thinkpads when idle. The LCD is good enough as well even if i had several laptops with better LCD in the past.

Congrats, very nice machine. I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine (a similar machine, sans the fingerprint reader and wireless n).

Just for the record, Intel X3100 graphics on my t61 displays Vista Aero at 1920x1200 just fine and with low noise and long battery life. Unless you are a gamer, you don't need discrete graphics.

I am using a 1920x1200 external monitor via DVI from the advanced mini-dock.

lesmoss wrote:Just for the record, Intel X3100 graphics on my t61 displays Vista Aero at 1920x1200 just fine and with low noise and long battery life. Unless you are a gamer, you don't need discrete graphics.

I am using a 1920x1200 external monitor via DVI from the advanced mini-dock.

Well i already got the T61p with the nVIDIA now and it's quiet and cool as well. I guess the battery life suffer a bit compared to the Intel, but except from that i cannot see any drawback.