Dim T60 Flexview Panel - Questions

[macklow]

any preferred "standard" images to put on the screens? I have them set up with different themes so even just the "desktop" is not going to be a good comparison... although I guess I could just put this thread on the displays and take pictures of that

[dr_st]

any preferred "standard" images to put on the screens? I have them set up with different themes so even just the "desktop" is not going to be a good comparison... although I guess I could just put this thread on the displays and take pictures of that

Yeah, that sounds a good idea.

Any images of the laptops side-by-side, showing the same content. It will be interesting to see both dark and bright colors. Maybe some grayscale calibration images, such as this: http://elephantav.files.wordpress.com/2 ... yscale.jpg

P.S. If you post it here, make sure to use links, not embedded images. If you want to post images directly, you can use the picture forum.

Thanks again.

[wk123]

Hello,
I have a couple of questions

1. I was not aware of the EEPROM issue w/ the HV150UX1-101 (pretty funny: HV150UX1, HV150UX1-100 and HV150UX1-102 are OK, but HV150UX1-101 is different) . For my thinkpad t60p UXGA I have ordered a replacement HV150UX1-101 LCD. It was inexpensive, but likely I will not be able to return it for refund.
Does anyone know if I could transfer the EEPROM chips from my previous panel to the new HV150UX1-101? (I have not open the laptop yet and in fact do not know which panel is there: the laptop is 2007-CTO model, as I understood, inside should be BoeHydis?). Are the EEPROM chips soldered on the panel, or stay in sockets? Perhaps, the HV150UX1-101 has empty sockets for EEPROM?

2. As I understood from this forum, I can still use the HV150UX1-101 as is, to upgrade my older T42p UXGA?

thank you

[Troels]

Hello wk123

1) The EEPROM chips (i believe BOE Hydis have put two on board for two different configurations - not sure how this works really). The EEPROMs are on the side of the LCD driver board which faces towards the back of the LCD, so you can't really access it, without removing the transparent tape securing the LCD driver board PCB. Even then, they use surface mount EEPROMS - no one really use anything socketed or in DIP packages - it's huge and expensive in comparison. The HV150UX1-101 might have solder pads for the EEPROMs, but i can't verify this at all. It would be a cost effective way to make multiple LCD models though.

How new is the laptop? If it was one of the latest T60p, it could also have one from IDtech inside. What happened since you want a new LCD?

2) I don't see any reason why not, but i have never heard anyone completing that modification. If it's because the LCD on the 2007-CTO is cracked, then you could swap the screen from the T42p to the T60p and the HV150UX1-101 to the T42p. The UXGA in the T42p has got to be the Idtech N150U3-L01, which may or may not need a reflash to work in the T60p.

[macklow]

here's a photo of the two side-by-side: http://macklow.com/t60p/13N7194vs13N7076.jpg

I used this for the screen image: http://tomyeah.com/images/Monitor%20cal ... 0chart.jpg

Both laptops are set to 32-bit color, and both are using the "stock" color profile "sRGB Color Space Profile".

The 13N7194 (on the left) has the FireGL 5250 video card, the 13N7076 has the 5200.

The 13N7076 is brand new with only a few hours of usage. The 13N7194 is a bit older and looks it.

[Troels]

Thanks for that comparison - in your opinion, would the only major difference be in the blue shades? Other than one is slightly dimmer than the other of course.

[macklow]

some differences:

13N7194: Windows uses a different color palette for some reason between 16bit and 32bit color depth for the windows colors (I use the "Windows XP" theme, and under the "Appearance" tab in Display Properties I use "Windows XP style" and a color scheme of "silver").

For the 13N7194 display (with 5250 card) in 16-bit depth, one of the colors is 231/233/231 (rgb).
If I switch to 32-bit depth, the color changes to 224/223/227.

For the 13N7076 display (with 5200 card), both 32bit and 16bit color depths shows 224/223/227.

see this image for an example: http://macklow.com/t60p/test-image.tif

Both displays can display the colors. In this image the pinkish tone in the inner Paint border is 16bit, and grey in the outer Paint border is 32bit (from 13N7194 display).

If you look at the brown background, there are two colors there. I can see both colors on the 13N7194, but only a single color on the 13N7076.

I can see both colors when using an external CRT (Radius M1), using "clone" mode from both laptops. So the video card and settings can produce a different color, the 13N7076 doesn't display any (detectable by my naked eye) difference.

[edit] After fiddling with brightness and so on, I can see the two different colors on both lcd screens... so I guess no difference! I don't know the specs of the two lcds; if one is 8-bit and the other 10-bit, how would one generate a 10-bit color?[/edit]

the brown colors are: 138/125/123 and 138/126/123.

[dr_st]

Thanks for the pic!

The one on the right looks slightly brighter and bluer. But nowhere near the difference I saw when the difference in lifetime was 18 months.

[Troels]

Both displays can display the colors. In this image the pinkish tone in the inner Paint border is 16bit, and grey in the outer Paint border is 32bit (from 13N7194 display).

If you look at the brown background, there are two colors there. I can see both colors on the 13N7194, but only a single color on the 13N7076.

Depending on the loaded color profile i can see the transition on the QXGA (the Boe Hydis is not installed right now), but when it use the thinkpad color profile for flexview LCDs, the transition is not shown. On Adobe sRGB profile it is shown. On an old Dell P791 (i think) CRT, the transition is also there. Wonder why the transition in the background is even there

[edit] After fiddling with brightness and so on, I can see the two different colors on both lcd screens... so I guess no difference! I don't know the specs of the two lcds; if one is 8-bit and the other 10-bit, how would one generate a 10-bit color?[/edit]

Both are 6 bit.

[macklow]

Depending on the loaded color profile i can see the transition on the QXGA (the Boe Hydis is not installed right now), but when it use the thinkpad color profile for flexview LCDs, the transition is not shown. On Adobe sRGB profile it is shown. On an old Dell P791 (i think) CRT, the transition is also there. Wonder why the transition in the background is even there

I added the two colors in the background (brown) with as slight a change in rgb as possible to see if I could find a difference in the screens. My QXGA screen is still in the box, waiting for some EDID flashing

Both are 6 bit.

If they're both 6-bit, then what was the purpose of the 13N7194 "sRGB"???

[wk123]

Hello wk123

1) The EEPROM chips (i believe BOE Hydis have put two on board for two different configurations - not sure how this works really). ...
How new is the laptop? If it was one of the latest T60p, it could also have one from IDtech inside. What happened since you want a new LCD?

2) I don't see any reason why not, but i have never heard anyone completing that modification. ...)

Dear Troels

thank you for your reply. My t60p is a bit more than 3yrs old, acc. to the warranty (I got it from eBay 1.5yrs ago). AB the LCD seems OK for now. Though I REALLY love the T60p model, and particularly it's 4:3 ratio IPS UXGA LCD, that is especially convenient for my work. Since laptops w/ UXGA 4:3 screens are no longer produced, I am trying to make some recource of spare parts, especially of the LCD panels, while they are still avaliable. Though the first experience w' the HV150UX1-101 seems to be not successfull . I choosed it because of it's 500:1 contrast and 200 nits brightness (according to specification), that seems a bit better than HV150UX1-100 (400:1 and 180). Are you really sure, that HV150UX1-101 cannot be used in T60p as is, because of EEPROMs?- I have seen in this forum someone mentioned his T60p had HV150UX1-101? If you would like to look at the screen, I can try to post pictures next week (or email them to you) - I need to grab the panel from the PostOffice since I missed the postman today.
As I understood, the T42p does not need EEPROMs? (to use this HV150UX1-101 in my old t42p)
Anyway, what you would suggest for T60p for the future - HV150UX1, HV150UX1-100 or HV150UX1 -102? I would be more interested in high contrast and brightness rather in correct colors.
and finally, as I have seen, the lcdpart.net (http_://www.lcdparts.net/LED.aspx) are making LED strips to replace the regular CCFLs. as they emailed me, they might have the LEDs w/inverters for 15.1 UXGA panels in September-October... It would be really cool...

thank you

[Troels]

Macklow,
The HV150UX1-102 is running in "sRGB mode" which does not mean that it has a 72% NTSC color gamut. It means that it follows the shape of the triangle created by the sRGB primaries coordinates in a CIE color chart like this http://arnaud.klinger.free.fr/photo/ges ... _gamut.jpg , so that the sides in the triangle are all parallel to the corresponding sides in the sRGB triangle
There's a presentation about sRGB mode here:
http://peecee.dk/upload/view/181626




Wk123,
Fully agreed, and I understand why you want to stock a bit up on these LCD panels.
From both the HV150UX1-100 and HV150UX1-102 data sheets, the contrast ratio is typically 500:1 and the brightness is advertised as 200 nits typical also (170 min). Both promise a light uniformity withing minimum 80% of the maximum brightness (measured at 5 points).
If you want the data sheets for the -100 and -102 please send a private message - since i'm not sure if i'm allowed to distribute these in public.

Neither of all flexview LCDs operate at the advertised 200 nits brightness because the inverter is current limited to a lower amount than allowed by the CCFL. That also reduces power consumption and heat.

I'm pretty sure it can't be used, but no harm will be done if you install it and boot it. You'll likely just get a scrambled image because it cannot find any standard timings. It might have some "fall-back" mode, so that it features some sort of standard timing programmed into the BIOS, which is compatible with the timings the stock LCD came with.


The T4x featured some LCDs which did not have EEPROMs for EDIDs, and they had different LCD cables to identify the screen type. As far as i know, no EDID with standard timings is required.

As to whether it should be -100 or -102, you decide Take a look at macklow's comparison above. I didn't have any strong preference for one over another to be honest.

Wow, that LED backlight stuff truely sounds promising! Wonder if it fit's all 15" LCDs or if it must be fitted by them.

[wk123]

Hi, Troels,

Thank you for your message.

I did tried installing HV150UX1-101 in T60p. The laptop had a problem, therefore I could just see how it boots (more correctly, SINCE there was a problem w/laptop and the top covers were removed I decided to take the opportunity to try if the LCD will work).
It booted essentially the same way as w/ its native HV150UX1-100. The Thinkpad boot logo image looked exactly the same. Please, let me know if this does meen that the HV150UX1-101 LCD will work "further", when WinXP will be loaded? Does this mean the t60p can find the right timing for HV150UX1-101 in BIOS? If so, Do you expect any differences w HV150UX1-101 and HV150UX1-100 under Windows in its native UXGA resolution - ie I mean the diffferences that cannot be adjusted with Windows settings?

thanks again for your advises
Wladyslaw

[Troels]

Hi Wladyslaw,

What does - "The laptop had a problem" mean. Does this mean that there is no OS to boot, so other resolutions cannot be tested, or?
As funny as it may sound, i'm extremely expressed you got this LCD to work, when it should not have an onboard EDID with standard timings in it. I have someone else with a IASX16S 14.1" LCD which shows no sign of containing and EEPROM - and that didn't show anything usable when booted as far as i am aware (in A T6x/p). The IAQX10N/S doesn't work without standard timings either (the eeprom on it is basically just empty)

I suppose this means the HV150UX1-101 will work, but i don't see how - without an EDID. The laptop doesn't know the resolution, aspect ratio or timings for the display you connected, so i'm not really sure what is happening. When providing standard timings in the EDID you do not (as far as i recall) specify anything else than screen width and aspect ratio. No timings. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the resolution during boot (640x480) is a old VESA standard, and displays probably must support this, regardless of aspect ratio or other timings (for custom resolutions). Again, not really sure

[wk123]

Yes, the hard drive was not booting to WinXP (and we thought perhaps there was a problem with the video cable therefore we opened the top covers). It was stupid of me not to boot from CD to WinXP PE to test the HV150UX1-101 all the way