Thinkpads Forum

I am looking at lenovo.com, and it seems they have put out a new "SL-series" (I believe it stands for "small business line") for the new Montevina platform, while in the T-series, it still uses the old Santa Rosa platform.

I am wondering if T61(p) is going to be the last model in the T-seris and Lenovo is going to phase out the T-series with their new "SL" line. If that's the case, it will be truely a sad story. It looks to me that the only good thing Lenovo has done to the Thinkpad brand is that they were able to bring the price tag down (with the cost of worse quality and tech support of course), and most of the new model lines Lenovo introduced don't make any sense to me. If they're going to phase out all the Thinkpad model lines, why did they bought the Thinkpad brand in the first place?

Any official news regarding the future of the T-series?

T400 and T500, as well as W500 (to replace the *p models) have been announced simultaneously with the SL series. Availability in August. Relax.

dickeywang wrote:If they're going to phase out all the Thinkpad model lines, why did they bought the Thinkpad brand in the first place?

You just said they put SL series Thinkpads on their website. This would suggest they intend to use the Thinkpad brand.

The T, X, and R series haven't been around forever. Still under IBM's guidance, A, G, and I series Thinkpads were discountinued. Names may change; Thinkpads remain.

dickeywang wrote:It looks to me that the only good thing Lenovo has done to the Thinkpad brand is that they were able to bring the price tag down (with the cost of worse quality and tech support of course...

I've seen from your sig that you own both T60 & T61. Though I am not sure if you previously owned other thinkpads before, but if you are honest about the comparison between T60 & T61, I think you won't give the upper statement.

dickeywang wrote:

It looks to me that the only good thing Lenovo has done to the Thinkpad brand is that they were able to bring the price tag down (with the cost of worse quality and tech support of course), and most of the new model lines Lenovo introduced don't make any sense to me. If they're going to phase out all the Thinkpad model lines, why did they bought the Thinkpad brand in the first place?

To be able to get to hundreds of thousands of people who would never ever look at something branded "lenovo", but would go for a "ThinkPad" even if it has less and less to do with what the features that had made it famous in the first place with every new generation introduced...

I've never owned anything but a ThinkPad, but the given the route that Lenovo has taken, that will change when the time comes for my next new laptop...

BTW, here is a picture which shows the new T series: T400, T500 and W500 which correspond to old T61 14", T61 15" and T61p. So T Series is still there with just new numbering system.

http://img.vista123.com/NewsUploadFiles ... _921_u.jpg

If you think it is acceptable that Intel gave up 'Pentium V' and brought new 'Core Duo Txxxx', then it is not a problem to allow Lenovo to make a similar change, isn't it?

And all of the above will be widescreens with crappy LCDs...

ajkula66 wrote:And all of the above will be widescreens with crappy LCDs...

You know for a fact that the LCDs of the new models will be the same as the existing ones?

I've never seen a widescreen IPS, have you?

Current TN panels are horrible. LED-backlit LCD on X300 is slightly better, but still nowhere near a FlexView.

So, it's going to be garbage either way.

This marks the end of standard-ratio LCD at Lenovo. Widescreens make for great televisions, but (IMO) poor laptop displays.

ajkula66 wrote:I've never owned anything but a ThinkPad, but the given the route that Lenovo has taken, that will change when the time comes for my next new laptop...

The question that remains is what are going to get that's any better?

FredGarvin wrote:

The question that remains is what are going to get that's any better?

A ToughBook...

Sure, Toughbooks are tough, remain standard screens and they sure are light, but they cost more than I'm personally willing to spend on a notebook. You lament the loss of the FlexView, but are the Toughbooks screens any better? From the reviews I've seen I would think not.

I kind of like the X200 that was released yesterday. You get a bit more resolution. If you leave the Vista sidebar on it'll probably look like have any XGA screen anyway. The screen is brighter, which is a big improvement to me even if the PQ isn't markedly better. The X6x screen was kind of dim in my opinion. The ultrabright wasn't too bad. It'll be under three pounds with the four-cell battery which should go three plus hours. With the nine-cell you can probably go all day. It's got ample performance. You get the regular full T series keyboard and it'll cost less than half as much as the X300. What's not to love?

FredGarvin wrote:What's not to love?

Well, for one, only missing brightness and contrast sliders separate it from a early 1990s Thinkpad...


edit: Allow me to illustrate. (50 kB)

I had no problem spending 4000 on a business laptop in 2002, why would I have a problem if I decide I need one in 6 mos or a year?

FWIW I have been using toughbooks at work for years and their overall quality has improved a lot. And yes, their TN panels are nicer than ones we have seen on ThinkPads over the last couple of years IMHO...

I'd have to agree the screen bezel is kind of ugly, but I'd take it along with the other improvements I mentioned rather thank stay with the current offerings. Form should follow function I thought.

Perhaps you are willing to spend that much on your notebook. I personally am not since I don't use it a ton. I think that puts me squarely in the majority of users. You say the screens are better, which I can't really argue since I haven't seen a Toughbook in quite some time. I would think they're not FlexViews or even close. That for makes it not worth the increased cost, but I'd definitely vote for a better screen on my R60.

FredGarvin wrote:

Perhaps you are willing to spend that much on your notebook. I personally am not since I don't use it a ton.

That's why I've purposely used the term "business notebook", as in something that is used for money making purposes...I don't need one right now, and I've got enough toys for my own use...

However, if and when time comes for a "business notebook", Lenovo will not get my money, out of sheer principle:

a) They killed IPS.
b) They killed 4:3 format
c) They added the insulting keys on the keyboard
d) They killed the stereo input.
e) They even changed the keyboard layout on new SL series!!!!



I've changed audio, guitar and car manufacturers in the past out of sheer principle, and see no reason why I shouldn't do it with a source for laptops. But that's just me.

Lenovo has managed to destroy almost everything I liked about ThinkPads to begin with, and rob them out of the huge part of their identity. On the other hand Panasonic has improved the ToughBooks over the years, and should be rewarded for that IMHO.

My ranting $0.02 only...

Yeah, I hear you on the FlexView. It's too bad it's gone. I'm not necessarily married to a standard screen, though for a 14" I prefer SXGA+. If someone came out with a great quality widescreen, I'd consider switching.

I know there's a big camp here that prefers standard screen, but I think they're a small group. Most people don't care about this cause they've never had anything better or they're not will to spend the money. Lenovo puts their dollars where the money is. Just my 2¢.

yea, sucks that they killed the 4:3 screen format.


anyway, I have the a new 14" T61p. Screen is great and keyboard is still good. I'll keep this for another 3 years or so. Unless something great comes along. I thought the X300 was it, but screen quality is horrible. Let's see $2,600 for a fully loaded X300 or $1,200 for a fully loaded T61p 14"?

I guess you know the answer to that.


P.S. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find some 4:3 screens around. Some are brand new too.

Amen to that brother!

I went crazy trying to find a T60p with everything but the WWAN (never used it and don't need it) and found the 2007-8JU, V5250 with a 14.1 SXGA+ ftw!

The T60's had the better design over the T61's.. the screen is centered

Ajkula,

I agree, the new thinkpads arent that great, and I HATE widescreen.

But I feel, aside from the keyboard buttons that Lenovo has improved greatly on the T43 with the T60 4:3 standard screen.

Who knows? Maybe, just maybe they will repeat that soon.

generalachoo wrote:Ajkula,

I agree, the new thinkpads arent that great, and I HATE widescreen.

But I feel, aside from the keyboard buttons that Lenovo has improved greatly on the T43 with the T60 4:3 standard screen.

Who knows? Maybe, just maybe they will repeat that soon.

Don't get your hopes up too high. There is a trend here and I don't see it stopping anytime soon until it's just another HP with a glossy widescreen and a slightly better quality keyboard. Changing the keyboard and putting that red LED on the lid are just the latest in a long line of slaps in the face as far as I'm concerned.

generalachoo wrote:

But I feel, aside from the keyboard buttons that Lenovo has improved greatly on the T43 with the T60 4:3 standard screen.

I'd beg to differ, and that's why I've sold my T60p after running it side-by-side for a week with a T43p...

T60 has a Lenovo badge, and that's about it. Most of it has been ready by the time they took over. It's a fine machine but:

a) It's ugly IMO compared to a T4x
b) Apart from CPU/GPU it doesn't really give any advantage over a T43, and these are "developmental improvements" brought by a newer technology, nothing else.
c) Keyboard has inferior feel IMHO.

Sure, they've resolved the "2010 error" by putting in a SATA drive and killing the bridge that shouldn't have been there in the first place. But high-end T60p units run as hot as high-end T43p ones, which is my biggest beef with T43p which is one of my very favourite ThinkPads of all time.

Follow the trail since Lenovo's takeover and you'll see that many notable ThinkPad features are getting lost in the sauce, one by one.

Agree with a, b, and c.

However, I feel that Lenovo updated the notorious flex problem with the 4x series, and they also strengthened the LCD protection.

Yes, I think that the T60 is ugly. I own both a 43 and a 60, and as a student I prefer the durability of the 60 over the minor, yet significant as a whole, detractions that Lenovo added.

But suffice to say, its worthy of the TP name in my book.

generalachoo wrote:

But suffice to say, its worthy of the TP name in my book.

Agreed. I'd just add that it's likely the last T series worthy of that name...

BTW, most of the "flex" issue was already cured on T43/p, by applying a different soldering technique, one of the reasons they fail a lot less than the rest of the T4x/R5x bunch...

ajkula66 wrote: Agreed. I'd just add that it's likely the last T series worthy of that name...

absolutely ... which is why I am going to stick to mine though I don't like a few aspects of its design. The 15" non-widescreen IPS screen and the decent (note: not great) keyboard makes up for the minor irritations.

I agree that the widescreens are a pain to use, especially when less than 17"---which all thinkpads seem to be.

If looking for an alternative, take a look at Dell Precision workstations---the laptops. I have had a good experience with the desktop line of the workstations. The specs on the laptops look good. But pricey.

Best
Reddy